Upgrading tanks, how do I save the sand bed fauna?

[vanguard]

My tank is only three months old but will be about six months old when my new tank is ready to receive the fish/corals from my current tank. I'm motivated to transfer the 25 gallon tank's sand bed (2'x2') to the 150 gallon tank's sand bed (4'x3') in an effort to fast forward the maturation of the tank.

I often see reasons not to transfer but they assume the sand bed has 30 years of poop in it. Sometimes they assume I'm trying to save money so they suggest I clean it completely.

I might just being a few cups over in hopes of getting the right fauna but I'd rather bring it all over. Is my six month old sand bed really tank poison that I should leave behind?

 

[((FORDTECH))]

My tank is only three months old but will be about six months old when my new tank is ready to receive the fish/corals from my current tank. I'm motivated to transfer the 25 gallon tank's sand bed (2'x2') to the 150 gallon tank's sand bed (4'x3') in an effort to fast forward the maturation of the tank.

I often see reasons not to transfer but they assume the sand bed has 30 years of poop in it. Sometimes they assume I'm trying to save money so they suggest I clean it completely.

I might just being a few cups over in hopes of getting the right fauna but I'd rather bring it all over. Is my six month old sand bed really tank poison that I should leave behind?

There’s no way I would move sand from one tank to another without cleaning it first maybe a couple cups but never all of it. If you do that, he will surely have ammonia, nitrate and phosphate Spike.

 

[((FORDTECH))]

Most of the bacteria is in the rocks,

 

[vanguard]

Most of the bacteria is in the rocks,

I don't mean to be impolite but that's pretty far from the question I asked.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Think of the sand bed as a very very fine filter. After 6 months, there will be enough gunk down there that I would never transfer it straight over.

Given that it isn't all that dirty, It won't take all that much time to clean the sand and reuse keeping the bacterial colony there.

 

[fish farmer]

If you want to save the microfauna, just take a couple cups for the new tank and rinse the rest.

 

[brandon429]

whats in the sandbed you're willing to risk safety protocol to preserve, that isn't in the rocks

there's a hidden benefit in not using one handful of old sand, not transferring unrinsed sand you're missing

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I just take a cup of sand from my mature tank to seed the sand in new tanks. Same concept as adding a live rock to seed the dry rock.

 

[vanguard]

whats in the sandbed you're willing to risk safety protocol to preserve, that isn't in the rocks

So we all enjoy corals and fish. I can't explain it but my wife and I enjoy the bugs nearly as much. We have a big magnifying glass that we use to look at little starfish, copepods, worms, etc.

I'm trying to fast forward my next sand bed into a living sand bed.

Also, the corals and fish are getting food from the sand bed too. (As you surely know).

We've likely all seen the BRS videos that talk about going past the nitrogen cycle and into an established biome. Why is it that an older tank does better than a newer tank? It's not just the calclium/alk/mag/ph levels. It's the diversity of the ecosystem.

So again, you asked, "whats in the sandbed you're willing to risk safety protocol to preserve, that isn't in the rocks".

It's the diverse balanced ecosystem that tanks gain over time.

 

[brandon429]

the problem with that is we have fish kills on file, page one of the sand rinse thread, from doing that. that risk is never relayed to those skipping the known safe method, to preserve zero benefit by moving over a handful of unrinsed sand.

 

[srobertb]

My tank is only three months old but will be about six months old when my new tank is ready to receive the fish/corals from my current tank. I'm motivated to transfer the 25 gallon tank's sand bed (2'x2') to the 150 gallon tank's sand bed (4'x3') in an effort to fast forward the maturation of the tank.

I often see reasons not to transfer but they assume the sand bed has 30 years of poop in it. Sometimes they assume I'm trying to save money so they suggest I clean it completely.

I might just being a few cups over in hopes of getting the right fauna but I'd rather bring it all over. Is my six month old sand bed really tank poison that I should leave behind?

No your 6 month old sand bed is not poison. You don’t say how deep it is but…just no. You’ll be fine. Transfer it directly or keep it in a container for a day and it will be fine. You could baby it by keeping it in a stable tank at about the same depth with an ATO and flow if you need to keep it long-term in holding.

References: I’ve done it more times than once because I wanted the bugs and worms and bacteria. I’ve done a “scoop” up to “the whole thing” in smaller moves (40g to 60g). The sand bed was way older than 6 months.

Conversely. My tank sprang a leak. I threw out the 4 inches of sand and moved from a 120g AIO to a 125g standard with no sand bed (same rock). The glass was extra dirty for a few weeks, little algae bloom, and everything went back to normal.

Even if there’s die off in the sand you’re increasing your water volume by so much it won’t matter. I assume you’re moving LR too.

Do it quickly and thoughtfully. Expect a small period of Imbalance. Give the tank a month or two to find equilibrium again. This is no big deal.

In addition to increasing volume with the 150g it’s safe to say you’re also probably adding a skimmer or refugium which are also points in your favor.

Edit: I really try and listen and learn. Green is growing and ripe is rotten and I want to be green forever. I am also an argumentative person by nature so against my better judgement:

This forum has a really bad habit of jumping to conclusions. The number of accepted causes of problems simply because “that’s what changed” or “that isn’t what I would do” is ridiculous. There’s value there but no facts. There can be a lack of any concrete evidence hidden behind pseudo-science that we all clap for and take as fact. When questioned the response is often “well this is right until someone proves it wrong and ain’t nobody got time for that.” That’s…not how science should work at all…Anecdotes are all we have in many cases but do not confuse them for fact. Including mine;



Take two 5 gallon tanks. Put a piece of LR that sat in the ocean for 20 years then in my tank for another 5 in one tank and put a dry, dead, sterile piece of live rock in the other. Guess which one won’t grow algae, diatoms, and be a general mess for the next 6 months? It’s not something anyone would argue unless they’re being pedantic.



I’ll take biodiversity over sterility all day every day. I can spend 24/7 trying to control something I honestly have little control over in reality….or I can try and create an environment that has the tools to naturally balance itself. Both will probably work (although one sounds exhausting) but debating which is better or works better is silly as it’s subjective.
Sometimes when I’m feeling extra rebellious I’ll share my sand bed with others and vice versa! Sometimes I’ll sneak online and buy some sand from strangers.

 

[zheka757]

I wouldn't be afraid to do it. I did it in my 400 gallon tank. I took all rocks and sand while it was running. But my trick was I put larger biomedia in my sump to bioload under control

 

[vanguard]

Even if there’s die off in the sand you’re increasing your water volume by so much it won’t matter. I assume you’re moving LR too.

Do it quickly and thoughtfully. Expect a small period of Imbalance. Give the tank a month or two to find equilibrium again. This is no big deal.

In addition to increasing volume with the 150g it’s safe to say you’re also probably adding a skimmer or refugium which are also points in your favor.

All your assumptions are correct. We are moving over two rock structures and the other 5 or 6 are cycling in a tub of water for about three months. When the cycle is finished, I think I'm going to keep a pair of mollies in there for fun and for the cycling benefits.

We have a protein skimmer and refugium now but the next tank has bigger versions of each.

Bacteria should be the least of our issues with all the time we have to prepare. I just kind of want to "age" the next tank's biome.

 

[Garf]

I wonder what could possibly be in a little old sand that could cause fish kills, lol. I’m expecting that the sand was blamed because it can’t answer back

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

All your assumptions are correct. We are moving over two rock structures and the only 5 or 6 are cycling in a tub of water for about three months. When the cycle is finished, I think I'm going to keep a pair of mollies in there for fun and for the cycling benefits.

We have a protein skimmer and refugium now but the next tank has bigger versions of each.

Bacteria should be the least of our issues with all the time we have to prepare. I just kind of want to "age" the next tank's biome.

You'll be fine. If you're concerned though, once the new tank is set up (with, I assume, additional new sand), start moving a portion of your old sand over with each water change on the old tank. This would serve to minimize the clouding that may occur if you add all the sand at once (which itself isn't even an issue if you can give the new tank a day to settle).

The volume of water in the new system should be more than plenty to dilute/disperse anything in the old sand, although if you move it all at once, rinsing it in old tank water before putting it in the new tank will help reduce the waste and 'dirt' that gets transferred.

That being said... I'm also a magnifying glass person and have stayed up late way too many nights with a flashlight and mag exploring my tank. When I transferred everything from a 90 gallon into my new ~150 gallon, I used all new sand and the fauna in the rocks quickly repopulated the sand bed... I did go through my old sand bed to pull out any remaining critters but was surprised at how few there were compared to what I was already seeing in the new tank.

 

[Stephen Glover]

I’ve done it without any issues. I used a flat shovel and moved the sand bed over to the new tank without too much disturbance. Try not to disturb the layers, if that’s not possible you can reuse the sand after cleaning it.

 

[vanguard]

That being said... I'm also a magnifying glass person and have stayed up late way too many nights with a flashlight and mag exploring my tank.

This guy gets me.

 

[muffinmanXL]

You’ll be fine - I’ve done the same with 7-8 month old tank transfer. FWIW, I tried to pick and choose sand from the “cleaner” areas of my old tank (sand that was shaded from direct light and less covered by algae)

 

[jabberwock]

This guy gets me.

She is not a guy...

 

[brandon429]

the interesting part here is not bothering to look up, or getting to see, several huge fish killed in a tank transfer (rmckoy) only after 1 handful of sand was added from the old tank. make jokes about it agreed, Garf is an effective sideline instigator it'll get me new examples for warning, do the transfer now this way as planned, no rinse, transfer old sand

I get to comb the forums and watch for examples of these losses, caused by the info given from the sidelines, slowly and surely we build out to fifty pages of no loss over 8 years. I'm not lacking tank wipeout losses on page one of the rinse thread, I'm gaining them slowly each month.

what we do to find the tank wipeouts is skim tank transfers moving over unrinsed sand, I slowly edit the crashes back in on page one. 90% of the time or better things are fine

in the 5-10% lots of pain and cost are involved. we use those crash warnings to ensure perfect transfers in our rinse thread, as a cycle. you'd be amazed the # of people not willing to take chances at all, nor develop the habit.

keep 'em coming