Hemmdog
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I see. I was just more worried about it being almost to powerful and it killing even nitrifying bacteria from your water.
Urgh seriously.
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jsker
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I am glad the fish are looking better!
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Sarah24!
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Hello,
Yes I would definitely probably deactivate the other two unless it won’t handle my water volume. But im going to try and do anything to keep ick etc out of my tank. I can do all the preventive possible because ripping my tank down is not easy and I don’t wanna stress the corals or the fish more.
The ozone I’m still on a learning curve but determined to make it as min as possible. Like I said I love my corals and fish like if they were my kiddos. I can’t say how much it stressed me out when I saw them on Monday. What was worse is that they could all die slowly which is not okay. So I had some help (a lot) and I had to weigh the options. So far it’s been the right fit move, each day looks better, but I’m also knowing it could be back tomorrow worse who knows. But water parameters are right on, holding the extra garlic helps and found out that vitamin c reduces stress and finding natural ways to boost their immune system.’
@jsker with vitamin c is 500mg the dosage for my water volume or just standard and it helps reduce stress and build immunity? I’d like to do the b12 also but don’t know what the dosages would be. Well for humans I do lol except I haven’t medicated fish before lol.
Yes I would definitely probably deactivate the other two unless it won’t handle my water volume. But im going to try and do anything to keep ick etc out of my tank. I can do all the preventive possible because ripping my tank down is not easy and I don’t wanna stress the corals or the fish more.
The ozone I’m still on a learning curve but determined to make it as min as possible. Like I said I love my corals and fish like if they were my kiddos. I can’t say how much it stressed me out when I saw them on Monday. What was worse is that they could all die slowly which is not okay. So I had some help (a lot) and I had to weigh the options. So far it’s been the right fit move, each day looks better, but I’m also knowing it could be back tomorrow worse who knows. But water parameters are right on, holding the extra garlic helps and found out that vitamin c reduces stress and finding natural ways to boost their immune system.’
@jsker with vitamin c is 500mg the dosage for my water volume or just standard and it helps reduce stress and build immunity? I’d like to do the b12 also but don’t know what the dosages would be. Well for humans I do lol except I haven’t medicated fish before lol.
Nitrifying bacteria are not waterborne in almost every case. They attach to surfaces and create a biofilm that becomes part of the colony that converts waste. This is a common misunderstanding of how UV-C works and is of no concern to the nitrifying bacteria. This is really an unsubstantiated urban legend that you can dismiss. UV-C will not cause a drop in the nitrifying bacteria population and an increase in the ammonia or nitrite levels. You will not even know it is there until the lamps burn out...and sometimes not even then!
Hemmdog
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I understand. What about this level 1 uv that she got that isn’t uv-c. Is that reef safe? I’m unfamiliar with that term.
Level 2 is actually what is recommended as far a germicidal effect is concerned. There is a kill range at about 120,000 Microwatts second/cm2 in the best set ups I used. This is the top end in terms of flow and kill power. If you increase the flow to much you reduce the contact time and the kill power of the UV-C. It is best to use some sort of prefiltration to lower the turbidity in the water before the sterilizer. The clearer the water the better the kill range if you will for the waterborne parasites, bacteria, and viruses. In practice you may not actually kill the parasite but you have sterilized it and it can not reproduce as a result...so the culture dies during its short life cycle. American Aquarium Product shares some information but I find it scattered and hard to read. In the past I could get all the information from Quality Marine about the TMC units I bought through them. I used Aquanetics System Paks due to the simplicity and the fully packaged units mounted with matched pump, micron filter, and the UV sterilizers. Sadly they are no longer in business. Now I would look to Pentair Aquatics for their profession units if I were going to build a store system or large aquarium.
Hemmdog
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Thank you for the explanation, I’ve heard pentairs are amazing. I’m looking into somehow getting one for my 90, my blue hippo has had crypto on and off the past few months and I want to nip that in the but. It’s not bad, just a few spots for a couple days then clean for a month or so. It’s to fast to catch, to qt, I’ve tried :(
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Sarah24!
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Hello,
There are basically three levels of uv uva uvb and uvc. Most of the uv steralizers found like at marine depot or petsmart etc lfs are uvc they mostly clarify but will kill some bacteria and some viruses and parasites. Now level 2 is better it has the same clarification feature but has a better turn rate and exposure time with a lower nm which I think is 235nm I think will have to pull my source again. Now level one or aka uva is where it will use the light wave of 185nm and will kill bacteria cyano (seams as level 2) viruses parasites including velvet and ick. Well it actually alters the dna and they can no longer reproduce or host your fish. Most level ones are used for drinking water use but work great in aquariums. Another example is most standard uvc can take 24 hours or more to clear your tank. A level one will clear the same amount of water in only 2 hours. So for me level one was not much more than level 2. But for example the one I’m getting or hoping of this place isn’t too hard to deal with, (.make sure I can get bulbs etc and also why I wanna use a small current usa dc return pump. Because then I can slow the rate down.
I’m hoping this is a small wake up call and that I was drunk and need to wake up. So I can’t take any more chances of this stuff getting in my tank. Yes some how it will always be there, but I definitely intended to make it a hard life.
Just the scientific papers I’m reading on marine velvet are enough for one to say okay what’s ever in my tanks stays no more new stuff for me. Velvet and ick can actually lay dormant and reactive when the cycle is promising. So hopefully we never stress the fish again. Not to mention that normal levels of magnesium actually even after a copper bath can aloe the parasite to survive. It can survive chemical treatment up to the point it is lethal to the fish. Now that’s discouraging within itself.
There are basically three levels of uv uva uvb and uvc. Most of the uv steralizers found like at marine depot or petsmart etc lfs are uvc they mostly clarify but will kill some bacteria and some viruses and parasites. Now level 2 is better it has the same clarification feature but has a better turn rate and exposure time with a lower nm which I think is 235nm I think will have to pull my source again. Now level one or aka uva is where it will use the light wave of 185nm and will kill bacteria cyano (seams as level 2) viruses parasites including velvet and ick. Well it actually alters the dna and they can no longer reproduce or host your fish. Most level ones are used for drinking water use but work great in aquariums. Another example is most standard uvc can take 24 hours or more to clear your tank. A level one will clear the same amount of water in only 2 hours. So for me level one was not much more than level 2. But for example the one I’m getting or hoping of this place isn’t too hard to deal with, (.make sure I can get bulbs etc and also why I wanna use a small current usa dc return pump. Because then I can slow the rate down.
I’m hoping this is a small wake up call and that I was drunk and need to wake up. So I can’t take any more chances of this stuff getting in my tank. Yes some how it will always be there, but I definitely intended to make it a hard life.
Just the scientific papers I’m reading on marine velvet are enough for one to say okay what’s ever in my tanks stays no more new stuff for me. Velvet and ick can actually lay dormant and reactive when the cycle is promising. So hopefully we never stress the fish again. Not to mention that normal levels of magnesium actually even after a copper bath can aloe the parasite to survive. It can survive chemical treatment up to the point it is lethal to the fish. Now that’s discouraging within itself.
Lasse
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1) The equipment you show is the right bulbs - that I can see on the wavelength’s peaks
2) I´m a little confused because the construction seems to be of stainless steel - normally not seen as total reef safe even if I have run pumps with stainless steel of good quality for years in saltwater. However - ask them for reef safe and maybe references of installations. I would probably not use this equipment 7/24 but when I have need of it. However - if you use stainless steel in saltwater - it is extremely important that it is not in an anaerobic environment. The stainless works that way that oxygen form an oxide layer and stop rust. Without oxygen no protection layer. It is important that you empty your reaction chamber if it not in use.
3) I was confused of the solution with ozone – but after a second thought – these people know what they are doing IMO. I can´t see the inside but I can have an idea how they solve this – let us say – in a genius way. Make sure that your air inlet comes ins as a filtered and dry air. First you have the UV-C bulb, when a quarts glass to protect the bulb from the water. The ozone will be produced mostly in the air gap between bulb and the quarts glas - they just suck that out with help of the construction on the pipes - smart. One warning with this equipments - sometimes you need to clean the quarts glass. It is very difficult to get it out in one piece. I use th take out the bulb and after that put a broomstick in the quartsglass. After this i carefully try to remove the glass from the fittings - balancing the glas with the bromstick so it not fall down in the rear end and hit the cover (and crash) Belive me - I have bought some spare quarts glass :)
For the book UV-A -> 315–400 nm; UV-B -> 280–315 nm; UV-C -> 100–280 nm. There is only two very distinct germicidal wavelength of UV-C - 185 nm (ozone production) and 253.7 nm (destroy DNA) All talk about broad spectrum UV-C is just only talk that the first part is bull . This pdf is very good
Sincerely Lasse
2) I´m a little confused because the construction seems to be of stainless steel - normally not seen as total reef safe even if I have run pumps with stainless steel of good quality for years in saltwater. However - ask them for reef safe and maybe references of installations. I would probably not use this equipment 7/24 but when I have need of it. However - if you use stainless steel in saltwater - it is extremely important that it is not in an anaerobic environment. The stainless works that way that oxygen form an oxide layer and stop rust. Without oxygen no protection layer. It is important that you empty your reaction chamber if it not in use.
3) I was confused of the solution with ozone – but after a second thought – these people know what they are doing IMO. I can´t see the inside but I can have an idea how they solve this – let us say – in a genius way. Make sure that your air inlet comes ins as a filtered and dry air. First you have the UV-C bulb, when a quarts glass to protect the bulb from the water. The ozone will be produced mostly in the air gap between bulb and the quarts glas - they just suck that out with help of the construction on the pipes - smart. One warning with this equipments - sometimes you need to clean the quarts glass. It is very difficult to get it out in one piece. I use th take out the bulb and after that put a broomstick in the quartsglass. After this i carefully try to remove the glass from the fittings - balancing the glas with the bromstick so it not fall down in the rear end and hit the cover (and crash) Belive me - I have bought some spare quarts glass :)
For the book UV-A -> 315–400 nm; UV-B -> 280–315 nm; UV-C -> 100–280 nm. There is only two very distinct germicidal wavelength of UV-C - 185 nm (ozone production) and 253.7 nm (destroy DNA) All talk about broad spectrum UV-C is just only talk that the first part is bull . This pdf is very good
Sincerely Lasse
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jsker
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Standard. You are at 275 g water volume?
If you are using B-12 separately I would say half of the amount of vitamin C.
Not to confuse, I have used this multi Vitamin in the past with my frozen link
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Thanks for the info and, more specifically, for sharing the .pdf !
Hemmdog
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Thank you, that was very informative. What was this level 1 and level 2 thing Sarah was talking about, I haven’t seen those terms anywhere in relationship to UV sterilization. I also +1 stainless steel and salt water seems like poor design. Maybe look into a pentair if you already were going to pay $800 for this new UV @Sarah24!
Glad to hear your fish are still doing ok.Hello,
Lol yes 2 years almost more like 18-19 months but close enough. So funny fact is that even at marine depot their most expensive uv steralizer over 1500 is still the same as what I have now for 200 dollars. I went to water solutions and ordered their 80 watt uv and ozone system. It is a level 1 uv so grade A and now I have to find the ozone generator but that should be easier. Figuring how it will go into my sump is another problem. Here are some pics of what it will or should look like.
It’s amazing on how even calling marine depot they had no idea there was a level 1 or 2 uv just a uvc which is basic clarifier. Not to mention, they said you can make any uvc steralizer the same as a 1 or 2 simply by slowing the flow down. That’s not true at all, not to menton (and I’m not claiming to be even a novest or beginner on this subject) but there is soooo much misleading and contradicting info on ick and marine velvet that it makes my head hurt.
In some case of let’s be extremely realistic, if someone has a 55 or 75 with min rock work, yes it would be hard to drain water into a rubber tub and set the sections in there and put them back once you catch the fish. Granted w velvet you need a constant copper level no building up or it will be too late. I have heard ick needs to start low and build up and others say same level as velvet. That’s not too unrealistic and letting the tank go fallow and use copper. Now for those who have 200 plus gallon tanks and glue rocks together and all the corals have encrusted and when a lfs maintenance team says we will need a hammer and bar in a glass tank. That’s simply unrealistic when again luckily so far just the two had it and are getting better.
Maybe the actual trick to help with ick is to have some prevents prior and not ever stop them. Yes it may help that I use two crappy uv steralizers (they are crappy now that I know what they really are), I also used garlic guard since day one and up it to two caps as soon as I saw the break out.
Now food I had to learn on, I thought they had a great source of food errr so I thought. Was wrong on that one when I can get frozen mysis shrimp with 50% crude protein as compared to 7% and it’s more expensive. So now I mix that with some flake food which has probiatic in it. I’m hoping this increases their immune system and making them less stress.
I again live in Boise which is 50 years behind modern times 200 for saltwater tanks. I have since ordered a fish trap and placed the order for the new uv. They only work by email so not sure how this will pan out but so far looks good. I have to wait for all my lfs to get in more cleaner wrasses and cleaner shrimp. You would think they stock up on those, and petco has some cleaner shrimp (enough said I will not trust there water source).
Also a fancy tidbit (see what happens when I am told to stay home when sick I read way way way too much). But it’s been said which I’ll find my source here shortly, that ick and velvet can transfer on anything wet literally anything wet. Let’s think about this, all snails crabs corals live rock live sand you name it. It can also have a dormant stage as well, and yes it can’t survive on fish with copper but can go dormant (oh where is my source I’ll post it promise), if copper levels are not at proper levels which I think we already know. Since we can’t dip inverts in copper, snails etc crabs shrimp, is this maybe the reason we simply can’t eradicate ick etc? It’s interesting enough for me to keep reading on it. I also think but can’t probe because this has happened once in my experience and it does suck and stressed me out badly. I love my tank and everything in it but maybe the more the mature the tank is and if preventives have been used since day one fish have a fighting chance. Now I can’t say that with velvet, and I have no experience with it. But it would be nice to see companies create medicine that will be safe to inverts and fish but kill viruses and parasites. For example hiv and aides virus, we haven’t found a cure yet but we have found antiviral drugs that definitely slow it down to the point it won’t spread as long as the person who has the virus never stops using it. Ina recent study posted in a medical journal they have found a case study where there are now antiviral drugs and they used groups of (males and males, males females and females w females all spectrum). One was actually has aides the other does not. After two years those who took part the individual’s who were negative stayed negative. The ones who are positive we’re still positive but showed immune growth and that the virus had decreased. Let’s hope it doesn’t take another 30 years to find something to get rid of ick and velvet since they probably are not as complex as the HIV virus.
Those amazing systems that HotRocks and 4 FordFamily run are fish only. And the aquascaping is set up to allow specific individual fish to be removed from the tank if necessary.
Possibly something to keep in mind for the 400.
The concerns you have about quarantining snails for 72 days, among other things, is the reason some of us keep a 'natural' tank.
:- )
Forgoing certain disease vector tangs in exchange for having a mixed reef with fish is a small price to pay.
The UV should get you what you need in terms of protection for your fish.
Glad you are feeling better.
:- )
The TMC pro 110 watt model sells for about $485.00 if I remember the price right. American Aquarium Products.
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Sarah24!
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Hello,
Been reading a lot about this and I really like it a lot. Not sure how I would get that under my tank stand or maybe hang it and plumb it into the sump. That scares me because if it leaks lol I’m kinda in trouble. But how do you have yours setup on your tank. I like the fact it clearly staya level 1 and curious if it’s too much. It’s designed for an aquarium of up to 3000 gallons lol. I am also wondering if I can get another current usa dc return pump and controller the flow manually for best results. It would be handy if there was a controller that could show me my flow rate and I then could adjust the dc pump to prime flow rate.
Plus it’s about half the cost of the one I’m looking at as well. Do to the bulbs being changed every six months it needs to be placed fairly easy. That’s not so easy now the tank is running etc.
I have noticed my two sick have greatly improved, and hoping they are on the up. Today on a down note I can see some small ick spots starting on my hippo tang. So far she has maybe 8 that may appear once they develop the mucus. But she is eating very well and active, and has not flashed yet but hoping she is the most immune. She was in copper the longest and first in the tank. I left her in a qt for almost 60 days before my tank was ready. She managed to hold on while the other 2 have shown signs. I’m hoping with the better food and extra garlic she can fight it as well. Maybe drop another vitamin c pill to help keep stress down.
It can be mounted either vertically or horizontally. It seems that for the best germicidal control you would use it on about 375 gallons or less. It seems like the site recommends dividing the 3000gph figure by 8 to get germicidal benefits. The site is cluttered and needs a major pruning and re-write in my opinion. I might be wrong due to all the information clutter. In the past it seems this unit was rated at 1200gph for germicidal use. Maybe a look at Quality Marines site might give better information. I will have to check that out myself. Since Phil left I am persona non grata at QM...lol.
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Sarah24!
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Hello,
Lol yeah I can see where your coming from. I just know the dc pump I have I can control, but need to figure out a controller that will estimate fairly close to how many gph I’m sending through. I could always just barely turn it up lol but I want the whole tank going through it. Sure wish I would have the intelligence to think of this before my tank was alresdy set up. Be much easier to plumb in and or Mount. Some mount them outside of the tank and that has always worried me because if any thing starts to leak then it floods my house. If I have it over or in the sump then the leak sucks but at least water is contained.
Today has been such an odd day, been sick and wow first time I have literally slept most of the day. Wasted such a nice clean smelling raining day. I was suppose to vinegar bath things in my tank yet errr I found sleeping more productive. Well now that half the day is gone lol time to make up some time. But I can absolutely confirm the side effects of prednisone and hydroxyin, because I’m on them now and oh how I can wait to be rid of them.
Hemmdog
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If you want to know exactly how much flow your getting through pipes they make that. Apex & fluid monitoring module, then whatever size pipes you have or are going to use you plumb the GPH sensor in, works on soft plumbing to, which I’d imagine your going to plumb your sterilizer that way.
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Sarah24!
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Hello,
It depends on how big they are and where I can stick them. I have a 40 breeder underneath but it has the baffling. Even
My huge 400 watt heaters won’t fit in the middle they are angled. I may mount it above the sump but have the collection cup that’s huge in the way. I may have to mount it out side the tank but makes me nervous. If it leaks one it floods the house, but worse I have half my power supplies on the floor and the other half on a shelf I built but I have too many lol. So if it leaks well there goes most of my electrical also. In hind sight before it didn’t really bother me now I feel pretty dumb. I could always Velcro the power supplies on the glass of the tank. I’d rather not stick them on the wall lol and even as small as I am I swore I left enough room to squeeze back there and well nope. But my nephews can still so there is hope :).
I also don’t have any apex or any systems etc so I sent an email to see if they have an update for their Bluetooth device that controls their dc pumps also.
It depends on how big they are and where I can stick them. I have a 40 breeder underneath but it has the baffling. Even
My huge 400 watt heaters won’t fit in the middle they are angled. I may mount it above the sump but have the collection cup that’s huge in the way. I may have to mount it out side the tank but makes me nervous. If it leaks one it floods the house, but worse I have half my power supplies on the floor and the other half on a shelf I built but I have too many lol. So if it leaks well there goes most of my electrical also. In hind sight before it didn’t really bother me now I feel pretty dumb. I could always Velcro the power supplies on the glass of the tank. I’d rather not stick them on the wall lol and even as small as I am I swore I left enough room to squeeze back there and well nope. But my nephews can still so there is hope :).
I also don’t have any apex or any systems etc so I sent an email to see if they have an update for their Bluetooth device that controls their dc pumps also.
Hemmdog
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I mean most I’ve seen are just mounted to the top of the stand underneath, like hanging over the sump but way up, simple ac pump in the sump that is the gph your sterilizer is rated for, soft plumbed up to the sterilizer, soft plumbed down into the return chamber or baffle before.
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