Uronema or bacteria?

[Jay Hemdal]

That’s what i thought. So no treatment either possible internal uronema that has not manifested externally? Does this mean my fish in qt are doomed if thy happen to have uronema as there is nothing prophylactically that can be done ? Hope not as i have some rather expensive fish in there…..what would yu do? The 2 remedy’s I hear about most is Rally pro at 3mL/gallon or formalin.

Luckily, internal Uronema is only seen in certain species of fish (listed in that article) and then, only a percentage of those fish will be harboring an infection. It is not highly, of at all contagious, the fish arrive with it. Neither formalin nor Rally Pro will work against it.

What happens is this: somebody gets some new fish, they treat with Rally Pro or formalin and only, say 20% of the fish die from Uronema. They then think their treatment had an 80% success rate. In reality, only 20% of the fish were infected to begin with.

One treatment that could work is oral metronidazole at 1% by weight in the food. Same trouble though - since the fish are asymptomatic, there is no way to know if this treatment actually works or not, maybe the fish just weren't infected....

 

[Flame2hawk]

Luckily, internal Uronema is only seen in certain species of fish (listed in that article) and then, only a percentage of those fish will be harboring an infection. It is not highly, of at all contagious, the fish arrive with it. Neither formalin nor Rally Pro will work against it.

What happens is this: somebody gets some new fish, they treat with Rally Pro or formalin and only, say 20% of the fish die from Uronema. They then think their treatment had an 80% success rate. In reality, only 20% of the fish were infected to begin with.

One treatment that could work is oral metronidazole at 1% by weight in the food. Same trouble though - since the fish are asymptomatic, there is no way to know if this treatment actually works or not, maybe the fish just weren't infected....

Thank you Jay. Very helpful.

GOOD NEWS- Your original instincts were correct. It appears to have been a scratch as it is healing fast after only a couple of days in kanaplex. I dont want to return until fully healed so as to not have the copper get into the womb and possibly cause internal poisoning. Is that something I should be concerned with as I would like to return him tomorrow into the QT. THX as it is quite a relief!

 

[Flame2hawk]

I see aggression or injury, not uronema. While this can heal on its own, with redness, suggested is treatment in separate tank using seachem neoplex

Turns out you and Jay were accurate. Thank you. Quite a relief….

 

[sgdnycct]

Luckily, internal Uronema is only seen in certain species of fish (listed in that article) and then, only a percentage of those fish will be harboring an infection. It is not highly, of at all contagious, the fish arrive with it. Neither formalin nor Rally Pro will work against it.

What happens is this: somebody gets some new fish, they treat with Rally Pro or formalin and only, say 20% of the fish die from Uronema. They then think their treatment had an 80% success rate. In reality, only 20% of the fish were infected to begin with.

One treatment that could work is oral metronidazole at 1% by weight in the food. Same trouble though - since the fish are asymptomatic, there is no way to know if this treatment actually works or not, maybe the fish just weren't infected....

Thank you Jay. Very helpful.

GOOD NEWS- Your original instincts were correct. It appears to have been a scratch as it is healing fast after only a couple of days in kanaplex. I dont want to return until fully healed so as to not have the copper get into the womb and possibly cause internal poisoning. Is that something I should be concerned with as I would like to return him tomorrow into the QT. THX as it is quite a relief!

I would wait until it’s fully healed. Maybe finish the QT in the other fish because technically you’d have to start the counter again. Plus if it was aggression it could happen again. If you have the facilities to keep it in QT on its own, I’d do that.

 

[Flame2hawk]

I see aggression or injury, not uronema. While this can heal on its own, with redness, suggested is treatment in separate tank using seachem neoplex

Ended up being injury scrape. Did a 5 hour bath in Enrofloxacin at double strength then moved to kanaplex at double strength. Its clearing up fast so now will go down to normal strength kanaplex.

 

[winxp_man]

When I removed the fish from DT, it was eating, swimming and acting normally. No attacks that I’ve seen I personally am leaning more towards it being bacteria as a reaction to the copper power at 2.3ppm (3 days) or uronema.

If it would have been uro at the stage the fish showed the damage at, it would have been hiding, and not eating. That its self shows it was just damage and I have not seen reaction to copper that fast in the fish I have had in QT in the past. So for future issues just know that uro marks that become visible will make the fish stop eating, or hiding and not swimming much, or both. But it’s pretty much a goner sadly.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Ended up being injury scrape. Did a 5 hour bath in Enrofloxacin at double strength then moved to kanaplex at double strength. Its clearing up fast so now will go down to normal strength kanaplex.

Uronema ruled out and fish should heal well

 

[vetteguy53081]

If it would have been uro at the stage the fish showed the damage at, it would have been hiding, and not eating. That its self shows it was just damage and I have not seen reaction to copper that fast in the fish I have had in QT in the past. So for future issues just know that uro marks that become visible will make the fish stop eating, or hiding and not swimming much, or both. But it’s pretty much a goner sadly.

Not always as will flukes and water issues
Uronema can work from inside out and show up roo late

 

[Flame2hawk]

If it would have been uro at the stage the fish showed the damage at, it would have been hiding, and not eating. That its self shows it was just damage and I have not seen reaction to copper that fast in the fish I have had in QT in the past. So for future issues just know that uro marks that become visible will make the fish stop eating, or hiding and not swimming much, or both. But it’s pretty much a goner sadly.

Wish it were that easy. Uro can come on quick, well before they stop eating and start hiding. That does happened but can take 1-3 days and by then its too late and left in tank could increase chances of spread. Have/had to act fast and am so glad I did as we were able to validate it was a scrape which if left in the tank with copper could have stayed around adding doubt for some time. Anyway…onward we go!

 

[Flame2hawk]

Uronema ruled out and fish should heal well

It’s healing quick. Do you think I should put it through a full 7 day kanaplex treatment before returning to QT and theoretically starting the copper ich countdown all over or is it safe to return lets say tomorrow when the scrape will no longer be visible?..;.

 

[vetteguy53081]

It’s healing quick. Do you think I should put it through a full 7 day kanaplex treatment before returning to QT and theoretically starting the copper ich countdown all over or is it safe to return lets say tomorrow when the scrape will no longer be visible?..;.

Kanaplex would be an extra insurance

 

[winxp_man]

Wish it were that easy. Uro can come on quick, well before they stop eating and start hiding. That does happened but can take 1-3 days and by then its too late and left in tank could increase chances of spread. Have/had to act fast and am so glad I did as we were able to validate it was a scrape which if left in the tank with copper could have stayed around adding doubt for some time. Anyway…onward we go!

Agreed, but we are talking about your issues you posted here. And it’s what I was responding to.

 

[winxp_man]

It’s healing quick. Do you think I should put it through a full 7 day kanaplex treatment before returning to QT and theoretically starting the copper ich countdown all over or is it safe to return lets say tomorrow when the scrape will no longer be visible?..;.

Had fish with more than scraps in copper cuts, tangs fighting. No issues. But that can be just anecdotal to me.

 

[Flame2hawk]

Agreed, but we are talking about your issues you posted here. And it’s what I was responding to.

MY comments were about my current issue but no fuss as I really value everyone’s input. Thank you!

 

[Flame2hawk]

Had fish with more than scraps in copper cuts, tangs fighting. No issues. But that can be just anecdotal to me.

Yeah I think by tomorrow the scrape will no longer be visible and I will return him to copper to continue the treatment as there are allot of fish waiting to get out of QT!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you Jay. Very helpful.

GOOD NEWS- Your original instincts were correct. It appears to have been a scratch as it is healing fast after only a couple of days in kanaplex. I dont want to return until fully healed so as to not have the copper get into the womb and possibly cause internal poisoning. Is that something I should be concerned with as I would like to return him tomorrow into the QT. THX as it is quite a relief!

Good to hear!

I'm not sure I understand about copper "getting into the womb". That doesn't happen. Copper toxicity (like seen with ionic copper) is absorbed through the skin and gills.

 

[W31Olds]

looks like Uronema to me.

Glad I was wrong. Lesson learned has to be you've got too many fish in your QT Tank.

 

[Flame2hawk]

Glad I was wrong. Lesson learned has to be you've got too many fish in your QT Tank.

Yeah it’s 5’ 140g but agree got lots of fish in there.

 

[Flame2hawk]

Good to hear!

I'm not sure I understand about copper "getting into the womb". That doesn't happen. Copper toxicity (like seen with ionic copper) is absorbed through the skin and gills.

Miswording on my part. Should I not be concerned about copper power toxicity absorption being aided by an open wound on the Stripey fish? It’s healing well but it’s still reddish. Thx

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Miswording on my part. Should I not be concerned about copper power toxicity absorption being aided by an open wound on the Stripey fish? It’s healing well but it’s still reddish. Thx

Oh, I understand.

I can’t tell you if copper enters a wound more readily than open skin. Formalin sure is very caustic to open wounds, but I think that’s a surface effect.