Using Baking Soda?

[theMeat]

What I stated: "The pH would be influenced by CO2 levels, not alkalinity."
What I stated: "Alkalinity and calcium are consumed together so if one goes down, so does the other." Raising alkalinity wont decrease calcium levels unless alkalinity is consumed.

That is not completely accurate, and you are unwilling to digest that. So that was fun but will now give the thread back to op

OP,
try to get more flow at tank surface with circ pumps to increase ph. As well with alk that low you probably should add some as described in the Randy article I linked above. Maybe dosing calcium is in order too, but don’t know because that info was not provided.
Dosing kalkwasser in an auto top off or by other means might be a good path for you, since it will not only do cal and alk in one cheap and easy product, but also help keep ph up. I would also recommend you check magnesium levels so you can rule that out as a culprit.
If that isn’t confusing enough for you will throw in when ph goes up corals will consume cal and alk faster. You should share some more parameters, more about your set up, and tell us how you’v been maintaining cal and alk til this point to get some better advice

 

[beaslbob]

Yup. And a refugium might be better at doing this because an ats is pretty much all water to air surface. So if the c02 level is high where the ats is functioning to start with, the exchange is not too beneficial

Gass exchange is not the idea. Consumption of the co2 by the algae is. resulting in an increase in pH.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

My alkalinity is about 80ppm and I don't think that's good enough.

What test kit did you use to obtain this result? If it was an API, you may want to re-test to ensure the result is accurate.

 

[beaslbob]

CO2 levels shouldn't have any effect on alkalinity.

Yup. And a refugium might be better at doing this because an ats is pretty much all water to air surface. So if the c02 level is high where the ats is functioning to start with, the exchange is not too beneficial

Here is an old article from Dr Randy Holmes-Farley: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-05/rhf/index.php

PH is decreased by high CO2. But alk would appear to increase. So a low pH and alk would definitely seem to point to high co2.

Macro (or other algae) will decrease the co2 increasing pH. But possibly decreasing alk.
So you would probably have to start dosing some baking soda.

My old 55g I started with no algae and ph eventurally got down to the 7.6 level. (lowest on high range api test kit). With days of adding macro algae ph was above 8 and eventually rose above that. Measured just before light out. I later filtered the water with crushed oyster shells which did raise the calcium. But Alk dropped down so I eventually added baking soda then used the diy 2 part system.

After the macro algae addition, the tank thrived with a yellow tang doubling+in size over a year.

Sure macros release co2 at night but the overall effect was the lowest pH with macros (7.9 before raising alk) was still much higher then the highest non macro values.

I believe the tank became a net consumer of co2 and source of oxygen to the surrounding environment. So the gas exchange was not the important factor. The macro consumption of co2 was the controlling factor.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

That is not completely accurate, and you are unwilling to digest that. So that was fun but will now give the thread back to op

Both of the statements by madweazl were correct. While pH can trend up with carbonate alkalinity, it's not a guarantee. High dissolved CO2 in your home can cause low pH even if your alkalinity is high. This is very common in the hobby (high carbonate alkalinity, low pH). This is also why many reefers now choose implement CO2 scrubbers. Lowering the CO2 content of the air going into the tank is the only long-term solution to control pH. Don't take our word for it, take it from Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley.

 

[pingzing47]

Randy explains it better than I could
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/11/chemistry

I have read Randys article also many times. Suggest you make a copy and keep it for reference. My ph stays around 8.0 when I measure. Get alk, calc, and mg in kine and stable.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Here is an old article from Dr Randy Holmes-Farley: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-05/rhf/index.php

PH is decreased by high CO2. But alk would appear to increase. So a low pH and alk would definitely seem to point to high co2.

Macro (or other algae) will decrease the co2 increasing pH. But possibly decreasing alk.

Changing CO2 in seawater up or down will, by itself, have no impact on alkalinity. It will impact alk consumption, with alk consumption generally going down as pH declines since both calcification by organisms and abiotic precipitation of calcium carbonate will decline as pH declines.

Low enough pH can begin to dissolve calcium carbonate in the tank (like a CaCO3/CO2 reactor) which can raise alkalinity. pH needs to be pretty low for that to happen. Below pH 7.8.

 

[PacoPetty]

Changing CO2 in seawater up or down will, by itself, have no impact on alkalinity. It will impact alk consumption, with alk consumption generally going down as pH declines since both calcification by organisms and abiotic precipitation of calcium carbonate will decline as pH declines.

Low enough pH can begin to dissolve calcium carbonate in the tank (like a CaCO3/CO2 reactor) which can raise alkalinity. pH needs to be pretty low for that to happen. Below pH 7.8.

My calcium is at 460 and steady. My Alk usually stays around 8 or 9 dKH but when I tested last night Cal was at 460 and Alk was 6. I read this post and checked my Chaeto and it has doubled in size in two weeks. If I harvest half of the Chaeto will that have an adverse effect on my other parameters? My PH was constant at 7.8 until I added a fuge and the Chaeto now it stays at 8.2.

 

[W1ngz]

This us a really old thread. You should start a new one to be sure people have the correct information. I promise you that a few people will read and answer the question from 2017, and not yours, making an accurate answer impossible.

I'll jump in and give you my answer as soon as I see the new thread

 

[madweazl]

My calcium is at 460 and steady. My Alk usually stays around 8 or 9 dKH but when I tested last night Cal was at 460 and Alk was 6. I read this post and checked my Chaeto and it has doubled in size in two weeks. If I harvest half of the Chaeto will that have an adverse effect on my other parameters? My PH was constant at 7.8 until I added a fuge and the Chaeto now it stays at 8.2.

You'll be fine harvesting the chaeto without negatively impacting other parameters.

 

[ClownSchool]

Yes c02 will effect ph as well, which is why I said get to the root of the problem

And yes both alk and cal can/will go down together on a longer term time scale. On a shorter time scale, the opposite

With op at 80ppm /5dkh alk you may be right because/and it is way low. A simple calcium check by op will confirm

Whenever I suggest checking calcium, I always ask what method they’re using to check it, as Hanna Calcium checker is notoriously wrong….by a lot.

 

[Smoke-Town]

It’s best to make it into a gallon solution and dose it into sump slowly.

Baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) aka:”arm and hammer”, 1 1/8 cup dissolved into a gallon jug of RO/DI water.

Using this calculator: http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html

Go slow when adding and to a high flow area, best in sump. Adjust no more than 1 dkh per day.

This will not raise ph, but lower it temporarily.

Hey I know I'm bringing this old thread back from the dead but I ran out of my sodium bicarbonate from brs so decided to try this and made a gallon. Then I go to the calculator and it only shows me how to make a exactly the amount I needed currently which was 1 dkh... how do I interpret how many ml of this gallon solution I need to use?

Feeling pretty stupid for asking this as everyone in every thread refers to this calculator for 1 1/8 cup solution so I feel like I must be missing something painfully obvious right now... I do not want to push this send button. Lol

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hey I know I'm bringing this old thread back from the dead but I ran out of my sodium bicarbonate from brs so decided to try this and made a gallon. Then I go to the calculator and it only shows me how to make a exactly the amount I needed currently which was 1 dkh... how do I interpret how many ml of this gallon solution I need to use?

Feeling pretty stupid for asking this as everyone in every thread refers to this calculator for 1 1/8 cup solution so I feel like I must be missing something painfully obvious right now... I do not want to push this send button. Lol

I'm confused.

What are you trying to do?

What solution did you make? If you followed my recipe (below), then in the calculator you enter Randy's Recipe #2.

An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Recipe #2, Part 2: The Alkalinity Part

Dissolve 297 grams of baking soda (about 1 1/8 cups) in enough water to make 1 gallon total. This dissolution may require a fair amount of mixing. Warming it speeds dissolution. This solution will contain about 950 meq/L of alkalinity (2660 dKH). As mentioned earlier, Arm & Hammer is a fine brand of baking soda to use in these recipes. Be sure to NOT use baking powder. Baking powder is a different material that often has phosphate as a main ingredient.

Once these two solutions are created, they can be added as frequently as necessary to maintain calcium and alkalinity. For further dosing instructions, see below.

 

[Smoke-Town]

I'm confused.

What are you trying to do?

What solution did you make? If you followed my recipe (below), then in the calculator you enter Randy's Recipe #2.

An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Recipe #2, Part 2: The Alkalinity Part

Dissolve 297 grams of baking soda (about 1 1/8 cups) in enough water to make 1 gallon total. This dissolution may require a fair amount of mixing. Warming it speeds dissolution. This solution will contain about 950 meq/L of alkalinity (2660 dKH). As mentioned earlier, Arm & Hammer is a fine brand of baking soda to use in these recipes. Be sure to NOT use baking powder. Baking powder is a different material that often has phosphate as a main ingredient.

Once these two solutions are created, they can be added as frequently as necessary to maintain calcium and alkalinity. For further dosing instructions, see below.

Meant to post this pic with my post. So I made a gallon like you said... and I'm trying to figure out how many milliliters I need from my gallon to raise the dkh of my 80g by 1.

This calculator tells me how many dry grams I need to create a solution for 1 dkh.... it doesn't tell me how many ml of this solution I need. It says about 1.9 teaspoons... which converts to 9.3 ml... but that's 9.3ml of 100% liquid baking soda... not baking soda and rodi mix.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Meant to post this pic with my post. So I made a gallon like you said... and I'm trying to figure out how many milliliters I need from my gallon to raise the dkh of my 80g by 1.

This calculator tells me how many dry grams I need to create a solution for 1 dkh.... it doesn't tell me how many ml of this solution I need. It says about 1.9 teaspoons... which converts to 9.3 ml... but that's 9.3ml of 100% liquid baking soda... not baking soda and rodi mix.

Use the entry for Randy's Recipe #2, which is the solution you are using.

 

[Smoke-Town]

Use the entry for Randy's Recipe #2, which is the solution you are using.

Ok. So just make it from scratch for each doseage, that caluclator doesnt work for a 1 gallons solution. So I should just use a small cup of rodi and mix 9 grams of baking soda in it for my 1dkh. Was just trying to figure out how many ml of solution that is..

I guess the 9 grams I need of the 297 is about 1/30th of the gallon (3785 ml) so 3785 divided by 30 is 126 ml... just thought the calculator would allow me to skip doing my own math at the end. But I guess I have all the information I need to make it work.