Using Seneye reef readings to cycle tank.

[Syafiq]

Hello everyone, I am new to this hobby and in the midst of cycling my tank. I am puzzled by the readings on my seneye reef.
Temp: 25.5°C
pH: 7.68
NH3: 0.248ppm
NH4: 37.06ppb
O2: 8.1

I would like to request for sound advice with regards to the accuracy of the readings and whether I'm in trouble with the high free ammonia reading provided by the seneye.

My Salifert test kits came out at follows:
Ammomia: 1.5
Nitate: 25

I dosed the tank with Dr Tims ammonium chloride and might have dosed a tad too much. I also added Tropic Marin nitrifying bacteria. There are diatoms on the sand and rocks, green algae on the tank's walls.

Am I on the right track or do I need to do a huge water change? Would really appreciate it to have feedbacks.

Thank you very much gurus.

 

[T-J]

I've found the Seneye to be very accurate.
The tank that mine is in is a year old.
Ammonia - .001
Ammonium - between 10-22 (day/night cycle)
The Seneye doesn't really measure Ammonium, only the free floating toxic Ammonia.
I'd stop dosing Ammonia and see if the bacteria are forming. Your Ammonia should be going down. Once that and the Nitrites get to 0, you should be good.
Some people like to test that the tank is cycled by dosing Ammonia to 2-4ppm. If it's gone in 24 hours, you should be good.
Since you're cycling the tank, and there isn't anything in it, just let it sit and continue to watch your Seneye through the app or website!

 

[Syafiq]

Thank you very much for your reply. Your feedback on the accuracy of the seneye is very reassuring. Does it mean that the reading of NH3: 0.248ppm is normal during cycling? I've tried calculating the TAN based on the values the seneye device provided and it turned out very high. Whichever the case, the best thing to do is to wait and enjoy the diatoms and algae

 

[brandon429]

There are diatoms on the sand and rocks, green algae on the tank's walls


thats a very, very critical detail here.


I bet your nh3 slide prep is off. one mistake in soaking, seneye misreads.

the reason the above benthic growth is important as a cycle ref: there are no tanks that have algae growth on the walls that are not cycled. benthic anchoring of new life always comes after ability to run a bioload, not before. its visual signaling of a done cycle.

it takes days and days for growth like that to occur, or it must ride in on already-live surfaces. this means you have met the wait timeframe from a cycling chart somewhere along the way, or you have met the wait times a bottle bac label will have on it.

diatoms and algae take longer than those two items to manifest, you're cycled unless something very rare is off.


lets see a pic of the reef tank


your slide prep: are you soaking, prepping exactly right

I bet all chips the slide soak and prep is off, you can't find seneyes that post tenths ppm nh3 on any post at any time even day 1 of a new dry start cycle.
this is an outlier reading, can't be found elsewhere try and find one other seneye that has ever reported tenths ppm nh3 and link it


your non-seneye ammonia readings also are not stand out, we expect many reefs to report free ammonia using the color kits, posts show.

what a challenging cycle this one is! pics

 

[brandon429]

@Cell

Ive rescinded my bet lol too many slide prep variables!

(i used to have a running bet that nobody could produce tenths ppm nh3 on a seneye)
its that rare to ever see it, I used to fun bet on its nonexistence. Im leaning heavily towards slide prep issues here


*email actual seneye and post us back their info! They're good at responding.

link them this thread it will help with context.

what seneye reads across tanks is thousandths ppm usually, and hundredths at most which I still feel is a slide variance because reef water in the tropics doesnt run that level unless direct farm sewage is spilling from an inlet and we test right there

 

[Syafiq]

I bet your nh3 slide prep is off. one mistake in soaking, seneye misreads.

the reason the above benthic growth is important as a cycle ref: there are no tanks that have algae growth on the walls that are not cycled. benthic anchoring of new life always comes after ability to run a bioload, not before. its visual signaling of a done cycle.

it takes days and days for growth like that to occur, or it must ride in on already-live surfaces. this means you have met the wait timeframe from a cycling chart somewhere along the way, or you have met the wait times a bottle bac label will have on it.

diatoms and algae take longer than those two items to manifest, you're cycled unless something very rare is off.


lets see a pic of the reef tank


your slide prep: are you soaking, prepping exactly right

I bet all chips the slide soak and prep is off, you can't find seneyes that post tenths ppm nh3 on any post at any time even day 1 of a new dry start cycle.
this is an outlier reading, can't be found elsewhere try and find one other seneye that has ever reported tenths ppm nh3 and link it


your non-seneye ammonia readings also are not stand out, we expect many reefs to report free ammonia using the color kits, posts show.

what a challenging cycle this one is! pics

I soaked the slide in a cup of my tank's water as instructed. Maybe I could prepare a new slide and see the difference. I had a reading of 0.499ppm NH3 on one day. ;Facepalm

Here are my test results with pictures. The pH reading is kind of low too. Might need to address that after the ammonia issue. I hope my identification of diatom is correct. The green algae on the walls are not that clear in the picture though.

I guess the best thing to do now is wait for another week or two. If readings are still high after replacing the Seneye slide, I'd contact Seneye and keep you updated. Thank you.

 

[T-J]

The pic of your ammonia test looks like .5 to me. Which would be really close to the Seneye.

 

[Syafiq]

The pic of your ammonia test looks like .5 to me

My mistake, I would take another test with another kit and confirm the values. Thank you.

 

[brandon429]

really neat post, fascinating cycle conflicts here!


* how long has setup been underwater what brand of bottle bac used

19 days? Let’s see if the brand of bottle bac used takes 19 days with no motion from Dr Reefs bottle bac thread, and from the bottles very own directions. Any cycle chart shows ammonia control in half that time

see how there are other factors that disagree with the tests, very neat clue hunting here nice post.


after tan conversion your Red Sea is showing safe zone ammonia.

 

[brandon429]

This thread is the most important cycling link on the board due to noncompliance from the best tester the hobby has


we gotta keep on this one till closure


*pending info on bottle bac brand and # days underwater, I wish you would add a simple test snail to this tank before any water change


I bet he lives, proving no ammonia nh3 on either test. A test snail would die in 20 mins or less among true nh3 at .2


new cycling science always contrasts how living animals do fine, while test kits cause alarm. Adding a snail now, before fixing water, would really help frame that. If it dies then you have a first we’ve ever seen.

no reefing animal we keep can survive twenty mins at .25 true nh3 backed up, this test will be proofed fast. As we toil weeks over test kit proofing, having a living animal doing fine or not is the ultimate context umpire

 

[brandon429]

I just barely saw your sandbed cross section


you got all that pigmentation in just 19 days?? I call this cycled that is a lot of feed and waste building up. That sand is cycled, test issues await proofing, a snail or hermit crab set will live. This is now what I claim to be the fourth and most profoundly misreading seneye of all seneye posts.

your water would be milky if that reading was real, suspended bacteria blown out of proportion from the constant ammonia feeding. Since live rock only holds so much bacteria, they move into the water to handle a bloom and it clouds


☁

not occurring here, double false reads is the call. Need test slug


yesterday I misread your no3 test for ammonia


seeing total ammonia down below after tan conversion the red sea shows safe ammonia, safe. Making the seneye the mis reader here

 

[Syafiq]

The details of my tank as follows:

Age: 15 days
Bacteria: Nitribiotic by Tropic Marin
Dosed with Dr Tim's Ammonium Chloride

I am baffled by the tank's progress. After going through a plethora of information on tank cycling online, I'm more confused than happy with regards to the progress of the Nitrogen cycle. The readings on my seneye reinforced the notion of my lack of understanding of the cycling process.

The test kits provided me with readings of a tank that hasn't completed the cycling process. Both the Salifert and Seneye didn't display 0 NH3. The presence of nitrate is also a factor to be considered. A nitrite test have yet to be done as I'm still waiting for the kit to be delivered. 0 NH3 + 0 NO2 = Cycled tank, correct me if I'm wrong. This shall be dealt with the elimination process. Firstly, replace the Seneye slide. Secondly, get my water parameters analyzed by a local fish store if possible.

If all else fails, I'd probably go with a snail. Hope this decision doesn't offend anyone.

 

[brandon429]

I advocated it w take full responsibility online for its loss if it dies a horrible death. we need to in the name of saving tons of fish that can be killed by bad cycling

lol hope that helps. the slug might take one for the team


and if he does Ill go update my cycling thread to say that visual benthic clues can be in doubt.


for five years, we have never ever ever doubted the cycle of a new tank that has accumulations in the sand, diatoms and minor scums forming (primary and secondary reef producers, nitrifying bac are the primary)

your fish store needs to be using seneye to help here

prediction: they use non seneye and report some free ammonia just like all searches show even for fully matured reef tanks with fish and corals (to have red sea saying .1 is common and api saying .25 all common, and error readings)


What your red sea shows is safe zone, repeat only the seneye is in question here. Your red sea color is accepted by everyone as safe zone ammonia. its so light I can't even see it, and that's before TAN conversion which brings it down further.

 

[Syafiq]

Thank you for the taking responsibility if the slug dies. We could split the responsibility 50/50. Lol
However, in the name of science and education, I am willing to wade through the code of ethics for this instance. While, I am still at the infancy stage of this hobby, I would be more than honored to be able to contribute to the reefing community.

 

[T-J]

Ok, wait a sec. No need to kill an innocent snail.

Both your Seneye and chemical test are showing high levels of ammonia. They are within the range of errors of each other. I seriously doubt that both of these tests are wrong.
The OP said that they overdosed Ammonia. Based on my knowledge of overdosing ammonia for cycling, this can cause Nitrates to go high, which is what you are showing. You'll also stall the cycle with too much ammonia.

If you click the video below, it'll take you to a point in the video where this is all discussed.

 

[brandon429]

here is a set of threads proving no cycle stalled, in the history of reefing.


Syafiq hold course

hate to flood your thread but we need counter balancing of info.



how many reef tanks did we cycle in these links below, a hundred? two hundred lol


cycles cannot stall in reefing its not possible. I'm aware Dr. Tim says otherwise

I disagree, and with a lot of evidence.

*that is information from the coming wave of new cycling rules, which are debatable until accepted as accurate or debunked. am open to all critique but we use thousands and thousands of dollars of other people's risk on the line in these proof threads and it always works out


it always works out because cycles don't stall, and I dont think yours is going off the red sea and benthic growths alone.

I started a seneye misread thread in the chem forum, other misreads are on file there like this one here.

 

[brandon429]

How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

non digital ammonia test kit readings (api, Red Sea, nyos, seachem badges) make you think you aren’t cycled when indeed you are if you owned a $200 expensive seneye meter, you’d never be doubting your cycle status. since .01% of the reefing population owns these, we need a way to help the...

www.reef2reef.com

We should use the collective power of the chem forum to prove or deny the possibility of sustained .25 ammonia in reefing

Why does it matter if reef tanks can have stuck cycles? Because when you move homes you don't want to lose animals, cycling science needs precision and predictability in order to protect our tanks. perhaps an emergency setup is needed, no wait time permitted or If you are invited to show...

www.reef2reef.com

and for the clench: five years one thread a lot of cycles. Not any testing, uses visual benthic cues like your sandbed.

The microbiology of reef tank cycling.

You can skip your cycle. Ive been reefing online for twenty years and have never waited one second for a tank to cycle, because I buy rocks that are already cycled and move them home. Here's two: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/octo-high-end-sps-skip-cycle-build.713256/...

www.reef2reef.com

*this debate is great for reefing you can see, its us leaving the old method into a new one


100% exactly like when in 2001 they were 'sure' a pico reef could not ever survive

how are we doing on pico reefs nowadays


so in your testing with a snail, and then a fish etc and the fact your red sea shows a safe zone of nh3 after tan conversion, and all those years of work, your thread is either going to be in line with those findings or be the first noncompliant we've ever seen.


A youtube video is nice, but its just one person's perspective. Once we ask for 200 people to give us their tanks for cycling and accountability, that's remote pilot reefing and a goldmine of info.

 

[Syafiq]

I appreciate feedbacks as they will steer me to the right direction. As suggested, it involves an innocent snail. Having presented with resources, I will do my due research before taking action. To come from a neutral standpoint, could the use of a snail be replaced by a photosynthetic organism that I can introduce that would only thrive in a cycled tank? This, to me is going beyond the usual cycling of a tank but to gather more information on the cycling process and advance the tank cycling process.

 

[brandon429]

hey one other question

all of that rock was dry is that right when you bought it, none wet?

Your tank has the fastest benthic growth I've ever seen for a dry start. At day 20 ish we're usually puddling around 100% bone white and perhaps maybe some bubble scum up at the top zone of the air/water interface but that's a literal benthic community below for what I bet a 100x slide pic would show to be mixed diatoms algae and perhaps a little cyanobacteria

that is really a lot of biology in place for twenty days, some seed source seems in play? anything prior wet added to the tank?

 

[Syafiq]

Yes. Dry and clean. The sand is Caribsea live sand though. Maybe thats what contributed to the bacteria bloom?