UV keeps tripping GFCI??

[GlassMunky]

Can you link to the thread you mentioned? I'm having trouble understanding how you have isolated these GFCI on one circuit.

I wouldn't say I'm a guru, and I'm not a certified electrician, but in highly competent with electrical work and did my entire house from panel onwards.

It's possible you may be able to get the UV on a protected circuit but like nano said above, maybe not.

I've been told by my electrician friends that most GFCI just don't perform/hold up well.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-gfci-installation.342874/

 

[NanoDJS]

because then if the gfci trips, the whole tank is turned off and thats how tanks die

So you tried it , thats what I was getting at, do you not have a ground probe >?

 

[zalick]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-gfci-installation.342874/

Thanks. Ok I get it. Each GFCI receptacle is the a terminal receptacle on the circuit.

 

[GlassMunky]

So you tried it , thats what I was getting at, do you not have a ground probe >?

tried what??
You are suggesting having the whole apex plugged into the gfci correct?
no i havnt tried that because i dont trust my system to run off a single gfci like that.

I have tried running the uv on a different circuit and different gfci,, still tripped.
Ive tried running the UV on a regular non-gfci outlet and it works fine

 

[NanoDJS]

the point was your plugging it into a micro switch controlled circuit with emf feedback , the main power for the apex is not. This might prevent the problem , If your tank is grounded a GFCI will never do anything anyway , they are designed to go to the breaker homerun and read the line noise

 

[GlassMunky]

the point was your plugging it into a micro switch controlled circuit with emf feedback , the main power for the apex is not. This might prevent the problem , If your grounded anyhow a GFCI will never do anything anyway unless there was a fault or spike.

I dont really fully understand that, but my takeaway from trying to run the uv on a gfci was that if something happens and the fittings on the UV fail and it starts leaking into the light area, then the gfci would trip and turn it off which is the only reason i even wanted the gfci (besides the manual saying i needed one)

this is my first tank to ever utilize any GFCI in any way....
Me trying to "do things right" of course causes problems, and when i had no cares before things worked great lol go figure

 

[zalick]

Sounds like the UV ballast is giving some sort of phantom voltage feedback that the GFCI board detects. Maybe induced voltage

 

[NanoDJS]

Thats what Im saying if the tanks water has a ground probe it wont trip anyhow , it wouldnt sense anything. They amp load would go sky high and the breaker would break on amps or direct short.

 

[GlassMunky]

Thats what Im saying if the tanks water has a ground probe it wont trip anyhow , it wouldnt sense anything. They amp load would go sky high and the breaker would break on amps or direct short.

i dont have a ground probe

 

[zalick]

i dont have a ground probe

You should 100% get a ground probe.

Roughly speaking The GFCI monitors voltage from load and neutral, if it detects an imbalance, it trips.

The imbalance can be stray voltage not returning. This is dangerous. If you are the conduit that completes the path to ground, you get zapped.

A ground probe provides a path to ground for any stray voltage in the tank.

 

[GlassMunky]

You should 100% get a ground probe.

Roughly speaking The GFCI monitors voltage from load and neutral, if it detects an imbalance, it trips.

The imbalance can be stray voltage not returning. This is dangerous. If you are the conduit that completes the path to ground, you get zapped.

A ground probe provides a path to ground for any stray voltage in the tank.

true, but then at the same time, im not being alerted in any way that there is stray voltage if it just removes it. granted that might be better for me not getting shocked, but then how would i know a piece of equipment is faulty and causing that stray voltage if i cant feel it to notice?
I had an old tank that had a heater fail and was leaking voltage, and the only way i knew was that i felt a little tingle.... otherwise that heater could have sat there for weeks or months more continually leaking that voltage....

Im honestly not sure which would be worse

 

[zalick]

Also, back to your main issue with the UV.

The GFCI are to protect you from being a path to ground when you are touching equipment or have hands in water.

Put a grounding probe in and it's a much better path to ground. Then have your UV on a non GFCI circuit and you'll pretty much be all good.

 

[zalick]

true, but then at the same time, im not being alerted in any way that there is stray voltage if it just removes it. granted that might be better for me not getting shocked, but then how would i know a piece of equipment is faulty and causing that stray voltage if i cant feel it to notice?
I had an old tank that had a heater fail and was leaking voltage, and the only way i knew was that i felt a little tingle.... otherwise that heater could have sat there for weeks or months more continually leaking that voltage....

Im honestly not sure which would be worse

Not having a grounding probe is worse IMO.

If you had been a good path to ground, you wouldn't have felt just a tingle.

 

[GlassMunky]

Not having a grounding probe is worse IMO.

If you had been a good path to ground, you wouldn't have felt just a tingle.

ok, but then still to answer my other question, how would one be alerted to stray voltage being produced with a ground probe in place? cause if something is leaking voltage i wanna replace that equipment ASAP

 

[zalick]

ok, but then still to answer my other question, how would one be alerted to stray voltage being produced with a ground probe in place? cause if something is leaking voltage i wanna replace that equipment ASAP

If you were that concerned. You can test with a voltage meter. One end in water, the other to a ground. Do that once a week to see.

Stray voltage in the water isn't necessarily bad (dangerous to you of course) but the fish and coral generally don't care. I know that's debatable though.

GFCI are good, but not reliable.

As much as I love my tank, I value myself first. The probe provides that protection.

 

[Grigs]

Do you know all the outlets that are on this circuit?

You only need a single GFCI outlet on a circuit, preferably the first in the run. And nothing needs to be plugged in to it.

You could try plugging the UV in to a non-gfci kitchen outlet and see if it trips the gfci on that circuit. All kitchen circuits have a gfci by code. It's possible the UV is overloading it like AZ said above but maybe it won't if it's not directly connected. (I'm grasping at straws here)

THIS!

Multiple GFCI's on a circuit cause havoc. Install only on the first outlet from the Main Circuit Breaker and the whole circuit will be protected.

There is an effect where other GFCI's detect the tiny amount of current being used to detect resistance to ground, which causes the overall resistance to drop.

Resistors in parellel reduce overall resistance. Added in series they increase it.

 

[Grigs]

ok, but then still to answer my other question, how would one be alerted to stray voltage being produced with a ground probe in place? cause if something is leaking voltage i wanna replace that equipment ASAP

The ground plug should result in your GFCI tripping if a fault condition occurs. You can unlug equipment and reset GFCI until you identify the affected piece of gear.

 

[zalick]

The ground plug should result in your GFCI tripping if a fault condition occurs. You can unlug equipment and reset GFCI until you identify the affected piece of gear.

This is how my system is setup.

Soon to have a GFCI/AFI at the breaker for each circuit.

My Apex will tell me if it turns off. No tank crashing unless I'm out of town. Then a friend will fix things. :)

 

[GlassMunky]

maybe it’s cause I don’t understand enough about electric and the details you guys are talking about but I just don’t like the idea of the whole tank on a gfci like the breaker. seems Too risky to me, I like things broken up so if one thing trips others don’t and can keep stuff alive. Like if the return trips, my power heads are still working.

I’m gonna get a ground probe, and then move my UV over to a normal outlet on the apex like most have done.

 

[Grigs]

maybe it’s cause I don’t understand enough about electric and the details you guys are talking about but I just don’t like the idea of the whole tank on a gfci like the breaker. seems Too risky to me, I like things broken up so if one thing trips others don’t and can keep stuff alive. Like if the return trips, my power heads are still working.

I’m gonna get a ground probe, and then move my UV over to a normal outlet on the apex like most have done.

I would recommend running a second circuit then. Power half of the tank off of one, and half off of the other. One GFCI per circuit and you'll be safe and the tank will have redundant power supplies.

FWIW, I have 2 circuits in my tank room and right now they run different tanks. There's a high likelihood that I will swap over to this exact setup.

I do have a ground probe in each tank. Whether or not the tank crashes, I can't enjoy or maintain it if I am dead. Electricity and saltwater are not a joke. It only takes milliamps to be fatal