UV plumbing with one return line / 2 pumps

[Ziggy17]

Have you caculated how much of that 4000pgh you will lose to head pressure?

At less than 4’ from sump to nozzles, no elbows and 1” pipe, it will be minimal, and I’m not really looking to be exact. If a UV can have a 500 gph tolerance for effectiveness, I can use the numbers Jecod gives and get pretty close. That’s why I like that make/model he stated. I can get there with my return pump.

 

[UncommonSense]

As I’m writing this, I think I answered my own question - is it to allow the UV side to have a higher flow rate if necessary @UncommonSense ?

Apologies, I over-generalized my advice!

— in any “parallel” UV plumbing off a return line, there is a chance for water to “prefer” one side of a tee or wye, depending on factors such as fluid velocity, and plumbing orientation (gravity)…

The second valve on the return plumbing is to prevent yourself from ever running into a situation where water prefers to bypass the UV more or less completely, even if it has its dedicated control valve wide open! — it is not strictly necessary in every install, such as one where the UV plumbing is the most direct line of plumbing, and below the return plumbing!

 

[chapter7]

Apologies, I over-generalized my advice!

— in any “parallel” UV plumbing off a return line, there is a chance for water to “prefer” one side of a tee or wye, depending on factors such as fluid velocity, and plumbing orientation (gravity)…

The second valve on the return plumbing is to prevent yourself from ever running into a situation where water prefers to bypass the UV more or less completely, even if it has its dedicated control valve wide open! — it is not strictly necessary in every install, such as one where the UV plumbing is the most direct line of plumbing, and below the return plumbing!

Oh, got it. Thx!

 

[mcarroll]

Ok, so I’m entertaining installing a UV as well. But I’m terribly confused. I have a WB 150.4 system and I have a Jecod 15000 return pump. So it maxes out at 4000g/hr, more than enough flow. WB also had a valve on the return line to use for (presumably) a UV or a reactor. Do I tee off using a Y shape fitting on the main line a few inches from the pump and then install a valve pre UV and then use the already set up second valve post UV to dial in the flow as per the manufacturer’s specifications?

In terms of filtration, I’m going to turn over 20x so around 3000gph

20x through the sump is overkill by a factor of 4 or 5, depending how you slice it...the only reason for numbers like that is if you're trying to provide all the display circulation from the return pump like it was 1992 again. ;). Use powerheads in the display for that.

4x-5x turnover is more than plenty for all the equipment in the sump PLUS it gets you into the right flow category for UV's that would make more sense.

If you want UV to handle cr*p like dino's and parasites (velvet = dino), then you can't use a bypass setup....effectiveness will be noticeably lower. Has to handle 100% of your flow.

At 3000gph you'd need a massive Viper UV or similar....doesn't make sense.

If I'm looking at the right tank (WB 150.4) then it's about a 100 gallon display. That means you should target about 400-500 GPH of actual flow through the sump. An AquaUV Classic 25 would be about right for that flow.

I have done a lot of research on this for my 360gallon DT with roughly 100 gallon sump. My first UV is for algae and recommended flow is 1000gph to 1500gph for algae so it is plumed inline on return line running at 1200gph to combat algae. The second UV that i will be getting is the same model but that will be for perisite control and needs to be ran at 150ghp to 250gph which will be put on small dc pump placed down stream of skimmer and then its output will be just i front of the dual returns. UV does two jobs but only one can be done per UV this is why most that run one is plumbed in return line and used to combat alage. Systems running 2 UV will have one set of alage and the other running much slower for peristits or more complex orginisums.

360 gallons = 1400-1800 GPH target. A Classic 120w or Classic 160w would do it for that flow.

One UV unit configured for parasites will also nuke algae. Split is not the way to go, not if parasites or dino's are a priority.

Unless the OP is into the side discussion, you guys might wanna open your own threads.....gonna get confusing talking about everyone's different pumps, tanks and UV filters all in one thread. :)

(Link the threads here if you want, and tag any/all of us into it when you create it.)

 

[Ziggy17]

20x through the sump is overkill by a factor of 4 or 5, depending how you slice it...the only reason for numbers like that is if you're trying to provide all the display circulation from the return pump like it was 1992 again. ;). Use powerheads in the display for that.

4x-5x turnover is more than plenty for all the equipment in the sump PLUS it gets you into the right flow category for UV's that would make more sense.

If you want UV to handle cr*p like dino's and parasites (velvet = dino), then you can't use a bypass setup....effectiveness will be noticeably lower. Has to handle 100% of your flow.

At 3000gph you'd need a massive Viper UV or similar....doesn't make sense.

If I'm looking at the right tank (WB 150.4) then it's about a 100 gallon display. That means you should target about 400-500 GPH of actual flow through the sump. An AquaUV Classic 25 would be about right for that flow.


360 gallons = 1400-1800 GPH target. A Classic 120w or Classic 160w would do it for that flow.

One UV unit configured for parasites will also nuke algae. Split is not the way to go, not if parasites or dino's are a priority.

Unless the OP is into the side discussion, you guys might wanna open your own threads.....gonna get confusing talking about everyone's different pumps, tanks and UV filters all in one thread. :)

(Link the threads here if you want, and tag any/all of us into it when you create it.)

I didn’t bother with a new thread as this was created in 2023, so I’m guessing the OP made a decision. So I used this as a slush thread for various UV questions. :)

I’ve always used a 10x gph flow rate on the pump, but I don’t know what that means In Terms of what’s actually running through the sump. How would I get that number?

 

[UncommonSense]

I’ve always used a 10x gph flow rate on the pump, but I don’t know what that means In Terms of what’s actually running through the sump. How would I get that number?

I actually brought this up a little while back!

— I’m thinking of revisiting the question on paper when I’ve got more free time…

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/are-our-sump-turnover-rates-missing-a-factor.1112324/

 

[mcarroll]

I didn’t bother with a new thread as this was created in 2023, so I’m guessing the OP made a decision. So I used this as a slush thread for various UV questions. :)

I’ve always used a 10x gph flow rate on the pump, but I don’t know what that means In Terms of what’s actually running through the sump. How would I get that number?

Better pumps will be supplied with a flow curve that allows you to predict actual performance pretty accurately.

If your tank is about 4-5' above the pumps level, then it's possible your actual flow could be about right if you're only using the 10x to select the pump GPH rating. (GPH rating ≠ actual flow)

The pump you mentioned seems to go with this flow chart...
https://www.theaquariumsolution.com/sites/default/files/full-width-images/JECOD DCP FLOW CHART.png...which indicates about 11,500 L/H, or about 3000 GPH in your setup (ie actual flow). You'd want at least 1.5" plumbing to handle that. WAY overkill for a tank of this size.

A Jecod 3000 or 4000 would do it, but IMO go with a better brand of AC pump instead....Mag, Sicce, Lifeguard, Eheim would all be top choices IMO. Pointless to go DC for return, and these pumps are all time-tested as bulletproof. A Syncra Silent 2.0 or 3.0 or Eheim 1260 or 1262 would be good options....or similar sizes from the other brands.

 

[ReefMagicMan]

Just curious this thread started in January 2023 which is almost 3 years ago are you telling me that you're still doing the same build
It took me six months to get my 400 gallon going
I thought I was taking too much time

 

[Ziggy17]

Better pumps will be supplied with a flow curve that allows you to predict actual performance pretty accurately.

If your tank is about 4-5' above the pumps level, then it's possible your actual flow could be about right if you're only using the 10x to select the pump GPH rating. (GPH rating ≠ actual flow)

The pump you mentioned seems to go with this flow chart...
https://www.theaquariumsolution.com/sites/default/files/full-width-images/JECOD DCP FLOW CHART.png...which indicates about 11,500 L/H, or about 3000 GPH in your setup (ie actual flow). You'd want at least 1.5" plumbing to handle that. WAY overkill for a tank of this size.

A Jecod 3000 or 4000 would do it, but IMO go with a better brand of AC pump instead....Mag, Sicce, Lifeguard, Eheim would all be top choices IMO. Pointless to go DC for return, and these pumps are all time-tested as bulletproof. A Syncra Silent 2.0 or 3.0 or Eheim 1260 or 1262 would be good options....or similar sizes from the other brands.

I have a maxspect 6k now and it’s fine, but I wanted more turnover with the ability to run a UV as well. So with a 4’ head, with friction and 2 90s at the top of the overflow, I’m probably at 6 head, so if I dial down the lowest setting on the Jecod to 4000LPH or 1000gph, with head loss, I’m likely sitting around 700-800 gph. So I can use the multiple pump settings to get where I need to be without pushing the pump at all. Plus there’s enough pressure to run a UV if I choose. I went Jecod as they’re essentially just clones of the name brand.and if I didn’t like it, it was on sale for $175 so I’m not out anything huge.
For flow, I’ve got 2 maxspect 350 gyres, so lots. But a little bit more from the return could be great for the back wall or surface agitation.

 

[Ziggy17]

Just curious this thread started in January 2023 which is almost 3 years ago are you telling me that you're still doing the same build
It took me six months to get my 400 gallon going
I thought I was taking too much time

?

 

[Anomaly_3]

I have done a lot of research on this for my 360gallon DT with roughly 100 gallon sump. My first UV is for algae and recommended flow is 1000gph to 1500gph for algae so it is plumed inline on return line running at 1200gph to combat algae. The second UV that i will be getting is the same model but that will be for perisite control and needs to be ran at 150ghp to 250gph which will be put on small dc pump placed down stream of skimmer and then its output will be just i front of the dual returns. UV does two jobs but only one can be done per UV this is why most that run one is plumbed in return line and used to combat alage. Systems running 2 UV will have one set of alage and the other running much slower for peristits or more complex orginisums.

Wont this bypass any bio media?

 

[BZOFIQ]

Did not read the whole thing but this is silly.

If your tank is pre drilled with 3 holes run bean animal for drains (all 3 holes) and run each pump separately over the edge.

You can run one pump straight into the tank and split the second one to run your aux equipment (UV, reactors, etc) with the remainder of water running into the tank.

 

[USN74NMCB]

I have done a lot of research on this for my 360gallon DT with roughly 100 gallon sump. My first UV is for algae and recommended flow is 1000gph to 1500gph for algae so it is plumed inline on return line running at 1200gph to combat algae. The second UV that i will be getting is the same model but that will be for perisite control and needs to be ran at 150ghp to 250gph which will be put on small dc pump placed down stream of skimmer and then its output will be just i front of the dual returns. UV does two jobs but only one can be done per UV this is why most that run one is plumbed in return line and used to combat alage. Systems running 2 UV will have one set of alage and the other running much slower for peristits or more complex orginisums.

That was an easy read, appreciate that. What make/model UV is it?

Life guard aquatics 55 watt pro with amogilived bulb 3inch housing 2 inch output ports

attached are 2 pictures before it was on tank and the last is it on under my tank hooked up

 

[USN74NMCB]

I have done a lot of research on this for my 360gallon DT with roughly 100 gallon sump. My first UV is for algae and recommended flow is 1000gph to 1500gph for algae so it is plumed inline on return line running at 1200gph to combat algae. The second UV that i will be getting is the same model but that will be for perisite control and needs to be ran at 150ghp to 250gph which will be put on small dc pump placed down stream of skimmer and then its output will be just i front of the dual returns. UV does two jobs but only one can be done per UV this is why most that run one is plumbed in return line and used to combat alage. Systems running 2 UV will have one set of alage and the other running much slower for peristits or more complex orginisums.

Wont this bypass any bio media?

The one on return line no the second one once i get it will take water after skimmer and return it to the return chamber just after the skimmer so all mechanical filtration it will have already passed through so no it will not bypass any of it heres a picture of my sump while water yesting it outside checking for leaks as i built it from 3/4 baltic berch plywood

 

[Ziggy17]

Life guard aquatics 55 watt pro with amogilived bulb 3inch housing 2 inch output ports

attached are 2 pictures before it was on tank and the last is it on under my tank hooked up

Thank you sir. I’ll presume you went to Home Depot to get the 2”-1/2” reducer?

 

[USN74NMCB]

Life guard aquatics 55 watt pro with amogilived bulb 3inch housing 2 inch output ports

attached are 2 pictures before it was on tank and the last is it on under my tank hooked up

Thank you sir. I’ll presume you went to Home Depot to get the 2”-1/2” reducer?

Lowes lol and its 2 slip to 3/4 threded reducer with the 3/4 mnpt by barb fittings

 

[mcarroll]

For flow, I’ve got 2 maxspect 350 gyres, so lots. But a little bit more from the return could be great for the back wall or surface agitation.

Sounds like you've got it nailed pretty much.

My main point was that using the return for (more) flow like this is at odds with a UV deployment against parasites (or Dinos)....you end up needing to spec a huge UV to handle all the flow.

You mention a Maxspect 6K....should be delivering about 1000 GPH according to their curve:

You're up to a Classic 40 or 57 to handle the flow at that point....$600+.

Keep flow through the sump at 4x or 5x and things should be a lot more reasonable all the way around.

 

[Ziggy17]

Sounds like you've got it nailed pretty much.

My main point was that using the return for (more) flow like this is at odds with a UV deployment against parasites (or Dinos)....you end up needing to spec a huge UV to handle all the flow.

You mention a Maxspect 6K....should be delivering about 1000 GPH according to their curve:

You're up to a Classic 40 or 57 to handle the flow at that point....$600+.

Keep flow through the sump at 4x or 5x and things should be a lot more reasonable all the way around.

I hear what you’re saying. Not previous stated was the bigger pump got me to the turnover I wanted without driving it hard. The jump can go up that high, but it’s pretty noisy, especially as I run multi speed mode. So when I watching TV at a low volume, I can hear the pump, which drives me bananas. :)

 

[Anomaly_3]

so this is what i have came up with for custom plumbing my cade 1200, will still leave the chiller port and one accessory im using 45 fittings and some y fittings to help with flow. With this setup i will be able to control flow to Uv by gate to get my desired uv flow rate, and restrict the main line to push more to uv if i need to. Hydros flow sensor after uv output to dial in flow for what im targeting and a flow sensor right before the entire return line goes to DT just to know final return flow numbers.