That's what fallback is for.. if controller fails it fallsback to its native setting. If anything it adds additional notification feature. If pump fails the controller would know and send you text/email. I have feed mode for my vortechs, so why not Vectra also. Currently when I press feed mode it turns off the return pump. It would be great if I can put the Vectra into feed mode also.
Vectra and neptune Apex
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That's what fallback is for.. if controller fails it fallsback to its native setting. If anything it adds additional notification feature. If pump fails the controller would know and send you text/email. I have feed mode for my vortechs, so why not Vectra also. Currently when I press feed mode it turns off the return pump. It would be great if I can put the Vectra into feed mode also.
dbrewsky
Active Member
I believe that ecotech marine and neptune systems are evolving into services and products that serve the same functions. I would not bat and eye that Ecotech is already in testing of a controller system, since they already have an established control platform though ecosmart live.
Neptune systems is only a design and coding step away from having their own lighting system as a direct competitor to ecotech, that technology is simple to produce.
Both groups are advancing towards the same market at the same speed and it appears that their is a arms race to beat the other one to the customer.
Neptune systems is only a design and coding step away from having their own lighting system as a direct competitor to ecotech, that technology is simple to produce.
Both groups are advancing towards the same market at the same speed and it appears that their is a arms race to beat the other one to the customer.
Good point!
Good point! Are you saying that without an Apex, there is no feed mode on the Vectra>
And this is different from other pumps how? Besides, if power outage happens, you can be notified.
mniemann
Active Member
So this brings up a good question. I just bought an apex with a WXM Module. Looking for everyone's opinion on whether or not to keep the wxm as it is still unopened or return it and just get reef link. Do we definitively know what ecotech products are supported by the wxm and what is not. Currently I have a mp40 converted to quiet drive by adding a new mother board and wet side and radion gen 2's.
Thanks in advance!
adhd_nerd
Active Member
There is a distinction between IP and open interfaces. I am not saying don't protect your IP. As an example, there are plenty of ethernet switches in the market place, they all have standard intefaces; the secret sauce is not in the interface. All the proprietary interfaces have come and gone in networking (along with companies that didn't go full steam into supporting ethernet) What secret sauce you will be giving away by allowing someone to switch modes on a pump through an API? That is poor justification to buy all Ecotech or you won't be able to control the device. Yes, you can certainly do that. A better approach to motivate users to your controller is to build a better controller not than your competitors; not force your users to buy your controller just because you have the "protocol" to control.
no, feed mode works on the Vectra regardless of controller. But I would need to buy a reeflink to control it wirelessly. Currently I program my system to go into feed mode when my autofeeder is on during the day. This sets my vortechs in slow constant mode and turns off my Vectra. But then my Apex is programmed to turn off skimmer and ato if return pump is shut down. It would be great if it can set feed mode on the Vectra instead of just turning off the return pump.
Ecotech has equipment that has smart control's that are connected thru the cloud. Apex is still the old way of individual breakout box's to connect dumb pumps and give them some smart's they have added a web interface. If I built a pump with smart controls I would want some other company ripping the controls I spent time with and then using their own controls on MY pump.
And what standard has Neptune established? None. Every new item seems to require an additional module to work with it because their "standard" is ??? Funny you mention ethernet. That standard came to play so a few companies could control market share, and you would be naive to think they did that for the benefit of others. 3Com, Xerox, Intel and DEC all had it in their best interests to control the interface and made millions if not billions, but look what happened to the smaller players. I don't see the same benefit in a niche market. If Neptune wants to create a standard then maybe they should start by having an actual Wi-Fi controller. It is 2016. I agree that there is no "secret sauce" to change the mode of a vortech pump mode, but there is intellectual property involved to talk to said pumps.
adhd_nerd
Active Member
I agree it is a two-way street. It would be unfair for Ecotech if they open up and Neptune doesn't. And we don't know what the challenges are between the two companies that prevents control of Vectra from APEX (maybe the reason is technical and not business and we are ranting about nothing of relevance). As industry leaders, I would hope they get-together and start working on 'standard' interfaces and protocols.
Maybe the extra module is needed because the interface to device X is proprietary and needs licensing (so its for interface/protocol conversion). If all manufacturers used Wifi, or blue tooth we would be good to go. BTW as consumers, we are a bunch of whiny two face people. We talk about protecting IP, yet we are perfectly happy buying Jaebo. And also , whine about having to buy other modules. We just want cheap free stuff.
Yes, all the companies you mentioned made billions through the standard interface. And that is my point that you can make money by opening up, but eventually, money needs to be made elsewhere (not on the interface/protocol). But today consumers can interconnect a Cisco port to Netgear port and consumers are better off thanks to the standard interface. I don't believe in the argument that any industry/market is too small to have open interfaces. That is the case of thinking "we are different." that eventually kills businesses.
The question is would you buy and brand X controller if all you can control are brand X devices. Thank goodness there are AC outlets, PWM, 0-10V. digital logic, Http, IP address, ethernet, wifi, and so on. The point of a controller is to control multiple things. As consumer, I am left feeling totally dependent a brand X release schedule once everything becomes closed; I think that is a step backwards for the industry.
I own both APEX and Ecotech pumps and lights. I love that I can control Ecotech WP40 pumps from Neptune. I would love to be able control the L1 from Neptune as well (and bought the L1 with the hopes of being able to someday). I wouldn't mind having to pay for a reasonable license fee to do it.
Sorry for the rant. I'll stop.
My vote is for open interfaces. The uniqueness of the Ecotech pumps is not the fact that you can switch modes, but the modes themselves and the quality of the pumps. I am not asking to expose what is in the modes, but just the ability to switch modes from something else besides the front panel or reeflink (which they allowed on the Vortechs).
Maybe the extra module is needed because the interface to device X is proprietary and needs licensing (so its for interface/protocol conversion). If all manufacturers used Wifi, or blue tooth we would be good to go. BTW as consumers, we are a bunch of whiny two face people. We talk about protecting IP, yet we are perfectly happy buying Jaebo. And also , whine about having to buy other modules. We just want cheap free stuff.
Yes, all the companies you mentioned made billions through the standard interface. And that is my point that you can make money by opening up, but eventually, money needs to be made elsewhere (not on the interface/protocol). But today consumers can interconnect a Cisco port to Netgear port and consumers are better off thanks to the standard interface. I don't believe in the argument that any industry/market is too small to have open interfaces. That is the case of thinking "we are different." that eventually kills businesses.
The question is would you buy and brand X controller if all you can control are brand X devices. Thank goodness there are AC outlets, PWM, 0-10V. digital logic, Http, IP address, ethernet, wifi, and so on. The point of a controller is to control multiple things. As consumer, I am left feeling totally dependent a brand X release schedule once everything becomes closed; I think that is a step backwards for the industry.
I own both APEX and Ecotech pumps and lights. I love that I can control Ecotech WP40 pumps from Neptune. I would love to be able control the L1 from Neptune as well (and bought the L1 with the hopes of being able to someday). I wouldn't mind having to pay for a reasonable license fee to do it.
Sorry for the rant. I'll stop.
My vote is for open interfaces. The uniqueness of the Ecotech pumps is not the fact that you can switch modes, but the modes themselves and the quality of the pumps. I am not asking to expose what is in the modes, but just the ability to switch modes from something else besides the front panel or reeflink (which they allowed on the Vortechs).
False, Ecotech has Ecosmartlive but it still needs to connect to the reeflink to control. If Ecosmartlive goes offline (which has happened before) or you lose your internet connection, you won't be able to control your equipment remotely. Apex has Apexfusion which works the same way as Ecosmartlive. The difference is if you lose your internet connection or if Apexfusion goes down, you can still use the Apex app and control all your devices remotely at home.
As long as your wireless router is up and apex controller is connected you can use the apex app to control all your equipment even without internet. You cannot do that with Ecosmartlive. No internet = no control.
Why make the Vortech compatible with Apex and not Vectra? Apex did not rip the controls of the Vortech from Ecotech. Both Vortech and Vectra are controlled the same way.
I agree, it would be great if Ecotech would continue their support with Apex compatibility for their new products especially since the Vectra is so similar to the Vortech already. Even if Neptune came out with the exact same product line that Ecotech has, it appears that Neptune wants their products as part of the Apex line. Ecotech products can run right out of the box, whereas all Neptune products are tied to the Apex controller. I'm not sure what Neptune can share with Ecotech aside from what's required for Ecotech products to communicate with the Apex controller. In this regard it would behoove Ecotech to continue making their products compatible.
Actually the ball might be in Neptune's court. The whole time we are griping on Ecotech to make the Vectra compatible, but what if Neptune is the one who doesn't want to play. Neptune has the advantage here because if they don't make other manufacturers Apex compatible their COR line would be the only return pump that is compatible. hmmmmm.. food for thought.
michaelrc51
Active Member
Yeah, but why would Apex do that.....they are primarily a controller company?
Also, someone spoke with Neptune at a trade show and well they alluded to the fact that they are waiting for Ecotech to give them one so they can write the code.
Also, someone spoke with Neptune at a trade show and well they alluded to the fact that they are waiting for Ecotech to give them one so they can write the code.
they WERE a primarily controller company. Now they have WAV (powerhead), DOS (dosing pump), and COR (return pump) and the flow meter. If you have Apex already, which would you get? COR or Vectra which is not Apex compatible?
michaelrc51
Active Member
First and foremost, they are a company built on the Apex platform, even thought they do produce more now. Them branching out is great but I am pretty sure they realize what the ability to integrate with others products means to their livelihood.
FYI- I had a Vectra L1 and sold it for this very reason. I am not going to buy the COR just because it's Apex compatible.
UFreefer
Well-Known Member
Totally agree. My return pump is the only piece of equipment that doesn't get plugged into any sort of controller. Its the most important piece of equipment and needs to always be on. It's plugged into and always will be, directly into the wall....regardless of how fancy the controller is. I love my apex but they fail, so it doesn't control my return pump, heaters or chiller.
I rewatched the launch Q&A video.
Considering all the features that were built into controlling the Vectra, I'm more and more not surprised at Ecotech's hesitance in helping Neptune control their pump. My guess is that they can implement the vectra's controllability into rivaling pumps (like Jebao, Waveline, ect...) and reduce the need for a premium pump like the Vectra. It seems as though the Vectra would loose a lot of features that would relegate it to just a normal DC pump if it were controlled by an Apex. Those may be features that Ecotech was not willing to give up.
As for DC pumps producing less heat, Tim seems to dispel that myth at the 31:00 mark in the video.
Considering all the features that were built into controlling the Vectra, I'm more and more not surprised at Ecotech's hesitance in helping Neptune control their pump. My guess is that they can implement the vectra's controllability into rivaling pumps (like Jebao, Waveline, ect...) and reduce the need for a premium pump like the Vectra. It seems as though the Vectra would loose a lot of features that would relegate it to just a normal DC pump if it were controlled by an Apex. Those may be features that Ecotech was not willing to give up.
As for DC pumps producing less heat, Tim seems to dispel that myth at the 31:00 mark in the video.
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