Velvet (Amyloodinium ocellatum)

[DanielJameS]

I have used GC and CP concurrently for the last 4 fish I have received. All made it through fine.

How is he looking today? Usually the CP drops the active velvet pretty quick (I know it isn't supposed to, but there have been several reports).

Keep an eye out for bacterial infections. The velvet falls off and leaves open wounds on the fish. My puffer got a cloudy eye which cleared up quickly with euthromycin

I have been so busy with this I didn’t see the reply. I literally brought this fish back from the dead. Turns out, it was primarily flukes eating her alive, but probably paired with velvet or ich too. She’s turned a corner this morning after a couple FW dips, an extended Rally bath, vitamins in the water etc etc. went from lifeless on the bottom of the aquarium for over 12 hours to showing signs, incredible. I can already see the start of bacterial issues on the fin and some tattered Fins from where the attack points were. I have Kanaplex in the water at the moment and I’m trying to figure out if I should do a full dose of prazi, or treat with something like GC so if it is another parasite it doesn’t get missed in the process.

After the fight I’ve witnessed with this fish the last 24 hours I’m extra determined to knock it all out at this point.

 

[jasonrusso]

I have been so busy with this I didn’t see the reply. I literally brought this fish back from the dead. Turns out, it was primarily flukes eating her alive, but probably paired with velvet or ich too. She’s turned a corner this morning after a couple FW dips, an extended Rally bath, vitamins in the water etc etc. went from lifeless on the bottom of the aquarium for over 12 hours to showing signs, incredible. I can already see the start of bacterial issues on the fin and some tattered Fins from where the attack points were. I have Kanaplex in the water at the moment and I’m trying to figure out if I should do a full dose of prazi, or treat with something like GC so if it is another parasite it doesn’t get missed in the process.

After the fight I’ve witnessed with this fish the last 24 hours I’m extra determined to knock it all out at this point.

I've dosed CP, GC, and euthromycin all at the same time. It's not advisable, but sometimes it is necessary.

It did not affect my fish's appetite, but I don't know if it's possible to suppress a puffer and lionfish appetite.

The other fish got CP and GC at the same time. There was no active infection (that I could see, it was prophylactic), so antibiotics weren't necessary.

 

[DanielJameS]

Here are a couple pics. The top is the initial condition of the fish, underneath it is the second freshwater dips container (I went a little longer maybe 6 1/2 minutes on this one.)

I think the fish went into shock after that much being cleared from its body/gills and it looked to be on its way out, breathing a million miles an hour and lifeless on the bottom. I decided I had nothing to lose and left it in a Rally bath for nearly 4-5 hours with vitachem in the water (don’t ask me why) expecting to come home and find it dead. Changed the water in QT, placed it back in, still lifeless. Held it up, made it swim, changed flow patterns, then hours later I come back to find her treading water in the corner, it was like someone used shock paddles on it! Today she’s swimming around, not eating yet but UNBELIEVABLE.

Here’s a pic of what I was sure to be a goner in the bath, and below the condition today.

You can see fin damage and what looks to be some flukes still on the fish in the head region. Trying to move fast but not TOO fast,

This fish has some SERIOUS FIGHT in’er.

 

[drblakjak55]

Thread full of great information. Any thoughts about UV? Will it kill swimmers?

 

[Humblefish]

Any thoughts about UV? Will it kill swimmers?

Yes, but a diatom filter probably does a better job of filtering them out: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diatom-filter-for-treating-external-parasites.212429/

Faster flow rate = greater efficiency for removing the free swimmers.

 

[DanielJameS]

Thread full of great information. Any thoughts about UV? Will it kill swimmers?

FWIW - I just decided to pull the trigger and try the Jebao 36w UV, got it with a pump to run it on Amazon for under $60. I figure a lot of people have unrealistic expectations with them expecting to ERADICATE parasites. I know I have some lingering ich (or something else) despite a fallow period and best efforts and practices to quarantine and treat. All of my fish are otherwise healthy and eating, though showing some scratching and head twitching behavior and prazi has been unsuccessful. I figure, best case scenario it kills some free swimmers and cuts down the numbers allowing otherwise healthy fish to shake it off and deal with minor attacks. Worst case scenario, I have markedly cleaner water on a consistent basis. Given the amount of money I’ve lost on either corals that melted, bleached or withered away for whatever reason, a fish or two that didn’t make it (from a store that offers zero replacement guarantee [emoji849]) $60-70 is a drop in the bucket to see what UV may or may not do for my tank. Hell if I find it doesn’t work, maybe when I move one day I’ll start a koi pond and I’m covered [emoji1360]

 

[jasonrusso]

FWIW - I just decided to pull the trigger and try the Jebao 36w UV, got it with a pump to run it on Amazon for under $60. I figure a lot of people have unrealistic expectations with them expecting to ERADICATE parasites. I know I have some lingering ich (or something else) despite a fallow period and best efforts and practices to quarantine and treat. All of my fish are otherwise healthy and eating, though showing some scratching and head twitching behavior and prazi has been unsuccessful. I figure, best case scenario it kills some free swimmers and cuts down the numbers allowing otherwise healthy fish to shake it off and deal with minor attacks. Worst case scenario, I have markedly cleaner water on a consistent basis. Given the amount of money I’ve lost on either corals that melted, bleached or withered away for whatever reason, a fish or two that didn’t make it (from a store that offers zero replacement guarantee [emoji849]) $60-70 is a drop in the bucket to see what UV may or may not do for my tank. Hell if I find it doesn’t work, maybe when I move one day I’ll start a koi pond and I’m covered [emoji1360]

Why waste your money on something that you don't expect to work? I bought a TMC Vectron 600. It costs more, but is proven to work. It is a UV sterilizer, not a clarifier like most other brands. If you get a piece of junk and it doesn't work, are you going to say that UV sterilizers don't work?

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/TMCUVSterilizer.html#vecton6

 

[DanielJameS]

Why waste your money on something that you don't expect to work? I bought a TMC Vectron 600. It costs more, but is proven to work. It is a UV sterilizer, not a clarifier like most other brands. If you get a piece of junk and it doesn't work, are you going to say that UV sterilizers don't work?

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/TMCUVSterilizer.html#vecton6

I didn’t say I don’t expect it to work, I just said I have realistic expectations.

The simple answer to your question is I wasn’t about to spend $180 on a UV sterilizer. If the problem moves beyond manageable, I’ll take the extra $120 I didn’t spend on it, buy another box of salt, a used 55, and go with what I know works for a longer period of time while still having a piece of junk that keeps my water clean.

 

[PeterG]

Can someone please repeat the effective therapeutic level for copper in a QT tank if I'm using Cupramine? I seem to recall .35ppm - .5ppm but want to be sure. know I saw it in here somewhere but find the correct ppm in my notes.

 

[Brew12]

Can someone please repeat the effective therapeutic level for copper in a QT tank if I'm using Cupramine? I seem to recall .35ppm - .5ppm but want to be sure. know I saw it in here somewhere but find the correct ppm in my notes.

Yup, you remember correctly. It is found here.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/copper-treatment.193343/

 

[PeterG]

Yup, you remember correctly. It is found here.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/copper-treatment.193343/

Thanks Brew. You saved me a bunch of time. I wasn't even focused on the right thread.

 

[Chris Harbaugh]

I have a question about this situation. I am transferring my fish to a quarantine tank and treating because of velvet.. I am going to treat these animals and keep them in this tank for 90 days, my question is what do I do for my Melanaurous erase as far as substrate for it to feel safe in at night. I am going to keep this tank bear bottom. Any advice will help.

 

[Gmj4409]

I have a question about this situation. I am transferring my fish to a quarantine tank and treating because of velvet.. I am going to treat these animals and keep them in this tank for 90 days, my question is what do I do for my Melanaurous erase as far as substrate for it to feel safe in at night. I am going to keep this tank bear bottom. Any advice will help.

Small tupperware container with some sand in it. It will have a very small impact on copper.

 

[puffy127]

Anyone try 35% H2O2 (75 ppm) at 30 min as described in Montgomery-Brock at al., 2001? They found that this dislodged trophonts. They did 2 treatments at 6 days apart. Seems ideal to combine with TTM at Days 4 and 10.

 

[puffy127]

Here's the abstract of Montgomery-Brock 2001:

Ectoparasite infections can cause death or a decline in the general health of farm-raised finfish. This paper reports the findings from two studies conducted to evaluate the efficacy of hydrogen peroxide as a therapeu-tant for the control of infections of Amyloodinium sp. on cultured Pacific threadfin Polydactylus sexfilis (locally called “moi”). Threadfin with amyloodiniasis collected from a commercial farm were used in both trials. Prior to the trials, and following hydrogen peroxide treatment, the extent of infection was determined by a gill biopsy procedure. An initial trial was conducted in the laboratory to assess the response of juvenile threadfin and Amyloodinium sp. trophonts to hydrogen peroxide exposure at four dosages: 0, 75, 150, or 300 mg/L for 30 min. In a trial on a commercial farm, a hydrogen peroxide treatment at 75 mg/L for 30 min was applied to juvenile threadfin in a grow-out tank. In both trials, hydrogen peroxide was immediately flushed from the culture system with sea-water after the 30 min exposure period. In the laboratory trial, treatment with 300 mg/L hydrogen peroxide resulted in 100% mortality of the exposed group of fish. However, single treatments with hydrogen peroxide at concentrations of 75 or 150 mg/L eliminated Amyloodinium sp. trophonts without causing loss of fish. In the field trial, a single treatment with 75 mg/L hydrogen peroxide greatly reduced levels of Amyloodinium infestation, and a second treatment 6 d later reduced Amyloodinium trophonts to a nondetectable level. These findings suggest that hydrogen peroxide is a suitable chemical for the treatment of amyloodiniasis of cultured, juvenile Pacific threadfin.

 

[Brew12]

Here's the abstract of Montgomery-Brock 2001:

Ectoparasite infections can cause death or a decline in the general health of farm-raised finfish. This paper reports the findings from two studies conducted to evaluate the efficacy of hydrogen peroxide as a therapeu-tant for the control of infections of Amyloodinium sp. on cultured Pacific threadfin Polydactylus sexfilis (locally called “moi”). Threadfin with amyloodiniasis collected from a commercial farm were used in both trials. Prior to the trials, and following hydrogen peroxide treatment, the extent of infection was determined by a gill biopsy procedure. An initial trial was conducted in the laboratory to assess the response of juvenile threadfin and Amyloodinium sp. trophonts to hydrogen peroxide exposure at four dosages: 0, 75, 150, or 300 mg/L for 30 min. In a trial on a commercial farm, a hydrogen peroxide treatment at 75 mg/L for 30 min was applied to juvenile threadfin in a grow-out tank. In both trials, hydrogen peroxide was immediately flushed from the culture system with sea-water after the 30 min exposure period. In the laboratory trial, treatment with 300 mg/L hydrogen peroxide resulted in 100% mortality of the exposed group of fish. However, single treatments with hydrogen peroxide at concentrations of 75 or 150 mg/L eliminated Amyloodinium sp. trophonts without causing loss of fish. In the field trial, a single treatment with 75 mg/L hydrogen peroxide greatly reduced levels of Amyloodinium infestation, and a second treatment 6 d later reduced Amyloodinium trophonts to a nondetectable level. These findings suggest that hydrogen peroxide is a suitable chemical for the treatment of amyloodiniasis of cultured, juvenile Pacific threadfin.

There has been some discussion on this. There is definite promise for it. There are some issues with the way the testing was done that make it questionable to how well it could be applied to hobby level QT's. I haven't seen anyone say that it couldn't work, only that it may not work in our application.
In fact, this study is one of the main reasons why I tell people that if they have a velvet outbreak to dose at least up to 1mL/10g of H2O2 while they wait for better meds to arrive. At that level it is reef safe and while not a level good enough to treat fish it does seem to help.

 

[puffy127]

There has been some discussion on this. There is definite promise for it. There are some issues with the way the testing was done that make it questionable to how well it could be applied to hobby level QT's. I haven't seen anyone say that it couldn't work, only that it may not work in our application.
In fact, this study is one of the main reasons why I tell people that if they have a velvet outbreak to dose at least up to 1mL/10g of H2O2 while they wait for better meds to arrive. At that level it is reef safe and while not a level good enough to treat fish it does seem to help.

I was thinking adding it to my QT protocol, incorporating it with TTM as a prophylactic measure against velvet, but was curious how harsh it is on fish.

 

[Brew12]

I was thinking adding it to my QT protocol, incorporating it with TTM as a prophylactic measure against velvet, but was curious how harsh it is on fish.

That is a concern and we just don't know. And, is it like copper, where some fish species do much better with it than others? Without some testing this is a big unknown.

 

[Sonam]

Does it do a better job than a fresh water dip? Having been through an outbreak of Marine Velvet I've seen how treatments can stress already unhealthy fish.
This is intriguing but don't totally understand how it works or whether they are implying a complete recovery from the disease or just a control of the population on the fish at a given point in time. It seems like a potential part of a protocol but the report doesn't address the life stages of the parasite.
Copper is certainly not a joy to use.

 

[Brew12]

Does it do a better job than a fresh water dip? Having been through an outbreak of Marine Velvet I've seen how treatments can stress already unhealthy fish.
This is intriguing but don't totally understand how it works or whether they are implying a complete recovery from the disease or just a control of the population on the fish at a given point in time. It seems like a potential part of a protocol but the report doesn't address the life stages of the parasite.
Copper is certainly not a joy to use.

Here is a follow up to that study. Very interesting results, but it does show that there is still some infection after the 2nd bath.
http://pubs.sciepub.com/marine/5/1/3/index.html

Unfortunately, they didn't do any tests at 30 or 60 days out to see if the detected infestation was viable. Just not enough info.