Vendor discussion

[revhtree]

To summarize we have two places you are able to leave feedback, rate and review a vendor and leave pros and cons.

You can rate and review here: https://www.reef2reef.com/showcase/category/saltwater-aquarium-stores.5/

You can create a thread here where we have 3400+ threads already: https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/vendor-feedback.18/

 

[TheHarold]

I agree and that is why I feel vendor reviews where people can discuss would work well here.

Perhaps some people are incapable of civil discussion though- it might complicate life for the moderators, regulating what is arguing vs attacking others.

As long as it is acceptable to "bump" a feedback post if the vendor views it but does not respond or resolve the issue, I can see wanting to keep the feedback "to the point" rather than have dozens of posts for both the vendor and poster to respond to. So the problem does not get drowned out and ignored. One problem, one solution. If anyone else has a similar problem they can make their own post- having multiple would definitely encourage a resolution.

(I mentioned bumping because the vendor has viewed my feedback repeatedly but ignored it)

 

[Retro Reefer]

The star ratings are probably the best all around form of feedback, each person selects the appropriate amount of stars and is allowed one comment.. I have ran a small eBay shop with my daughter for over 15 years and we have managed to maintain a 100% positive feedback with well over 3k reviews.. I probably don’t need to tell anyone what a hostile environment that can be but I can tell you with 100% certainty if sellers are consistently doing the right thing, providing quality products and services positive ratings will follow despite the occasional trouble maker or scammer trying to bring you down. IMO the 5 star rating/review system for venders should be predominantly placed at the very top of the vender section on the main forum page in big bold print.

 

[bubbaque]

The star ratings are probably the best all around form of feedback, each person selects the appropriate amount of stars and is allowed one comment.. I have ran a small eBay shop with my daughter for over 15 years and we have managed to maintain a 100% positive feedback with well over 3k reviews.. I probably don’t need to tell anyone what a hostile environment that can be but I can tell you with 100% certainty if sellers are consistently doing the right thing, providing quality products and services positive ratings will follow despite the occasional trouble maker or scammer trying to bring you down. IMO the 5 star rating/review system for venders should be predominantly placed at the very top of the vender section on the main forum page in big bold print.

Well said!

I didn’t even know about the star system until today when Rev pointed it out. I’d also like it more well known or in a spot that is easily seen.

 

[NS Mike D]

perhaps SHOWCASE isn't the best menu title for the star system, but it didn't take me long to find it an check out a vendor before participating in a frag sale (something I jsut do regularly now) .

star system is meh, IMO. people like to either validate their purchases before even trying the product or complain when things don't meet their expectations - especially when it's user error.

I prefer to read a sampling of reviews so I can sort out who actually has used the product for a while and for any common themes in low star ratings to see if it's a valid concern. I expect that even with the best quality control, problems occur, which makes me want to know how did the vendor handle it

The search function is amazing. Real easy to find input on nearly everything reef related on this site, and if I cant find it it takes seconds for someone to point me in the right direction when I post the question.

I have no complaints about the was views are handled here, but I will vote for a better label than Showcase and perhaps listing that forum next to the vendor, sellers, traders, buyers feedback forums.

 

[Steve Blum]

Will there ever be a forum where people can openly discuss their experiences with vendors? Maybe a section called vendor reviews?

As it is now where only the person who started the thread and the vendor can discuss is pretty poor. People who have had similar experiences should be able to discuss it all in the same thread without having to open up there individual thread. As it is now it’s meant to only keep the vendors happy and make it difficult for the members to get true feedback on a vendor.

If I’m looking to buy from a vendor I would like to be able to search in one place for all their feedback. It lets people know what to expect from that vendor without having to go search for a bunch of threads.

Having a vendor review thread would be amazing!

 

[Steve Blum]

Will there ever be a forum where people can openly discuss their experiences with vendors? Maybe a section called vendor reviews?

As it is now where only the person who started the thread and the vendor can discuss is pretty poor. People who have had similar experiences should be able to discuss it all in the same thread without having to open up there individual thread. As it is now it’s meant to only keep the vendors happy and make it difficult for the members to get true feedback on a vendor.

If I’m looking to buy from a vendor I would like to be able to search in one place for all their feedback. It lets people know what to expect from that vendor without having to go search for a bunch of threads.

Having a vendor review thread would be amazing!

THE R2R POLICE WHO BACK THE VENDORS WILL NEVER ALLOW THIS

 

[Steve Blum]

Another thing to consider is that there are multiple avenues for you to leave bad feedback for a vendor. We allow it, Facebook allows it, etc.. We're just trying to cut back on the "mob mentality" and maintain a better environment here at R2R. We also do not restrict you from send a message to another user about feedback as long as you are not spamming the membership. We're not trying to silence you and protect our vendors. We are trying to make it fair to everyone and again keep a consistent culture of peace within our community.

You are full of it you just pulled my thread about LA. You do not allow people to comment negatively about vendors

 

[revhtree]

You are full of it you just pulled my thread about LA. You do not allow people to comment negatively about vendors

Hello Steve,

1. I did not pull your thread or move it.

2. Your thread was moved by one of our team members.

3. Your thread is in the vendor feedback forum.

Thank you.

 

[revhtree]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/warning-dont-buy-from-liveaquaria.617474/

 

[Steve Blum]

Hello Steve,

1. I did not pull your thread or move it.

2. Your thread was moved by one of our team members.

3. Your thread is in the vendor feedback forum.

Thank you.

Yes but I believe The Initial Thread appears nowhere I Have Gone to the Vendor site Warning Dont buy from liveaquaria is there however you deleted the rest of my thread so nobody knows what I wrote as a Thread

 

[VA5]

In my experience all the major vendors I have ordered from have done a decent to excellent job. I don’t think people go into this business for the money. It has high capital initial costs and ongoing costs.
Orders may on occasion go awry but from my experience everyone I’ve dealt with is in the hobby because they want to be, not strictly to make money.

 

[revhtree]

Here it is on the vendor feedback forum.

 

[revhtree]

Here is the forum it is in: https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/vendor-feedback.18/

 

[TheHarold]

Here it is on the vendor feedback forum.

Have you read the guys posts? Not surprised he can’t find it lol

 

[Steve Blum]

In my experience all the major vendors I have ordered from have done a decent to excellent job. I don’t think people go into this business for the money. It has high capital initial costs and ongoing costs.
Orders may on occasion go awry but from my experience everyone I’ve dealt with is in the hobby because they want to be, not strictly to make money.

If you think they are not in business ask petco. Remember people don't invest there money for fun.

 

[MnFish1]

Another thing to consider is that there are multiple avenues for you to leave bad feedback for a vendor. We allow it, Facebook allows it, etc.. We're just trying to cut back on the "mob mentality" and maintain a better environment here at R2R. We also do not restrict you from send a message to another user about feedback as long as you are not spamming the membership. We're not trying to silence you and protect our vendors. We are trying to make it fair to everyone and again keep a consistent culture of peace within our community.

Sorry I created a new thread this AM about this issue - if you want to remove it - I'll re-type it here:

Can someone clarify the 'Vendor Feedback Policy', and perhaps edit the in that section of the forum - Unfortunately - replies to that policy are not allowed - I'm not this is the correct 'forum suggestions' section for this but I'm posting this question here. Not complaining - just asking for some clarification:
If you look at the 'rules' on the vendor feedback it the forum is to allow the seller and buyer to work out their differences (paraphrased) no outside comments are allowed (for negative feedback) - but comments are allowed (for positive feedback). Thats the rule - I have no problem with it per se but would like to bring up a couple issues.

I guess my main point is - if I start a thread titled 'Company X commits fraud' how should the company respond 'No we don't?' To me it would be a much more valuable forum for people to be able to discuss this type of post. Yet this isnt allowed. IMHO - this is different than if I start a thread saying 'Company X overcharged me for shipping' - and then the company and the buyer resolve their issue. (there is no reason for the general forum to respond).

This policy seems to set up a situation that is 'against the vendor'. For example someone posts something negative against BRS - only BRS and the complainant can respond.(I think thats the rule(. BUT - If someone posts something positive FOR BRS - all sorts of negative responses can be made - with positive rebuttal. To me this means positive comments can be debated by everyone - but negative comments can only be 'debated' by the vendor.

Also - there are many threads - where people have said 'dump company AAA' or 'dump company BBB' or 'company CCC's products are poorly made. (its NOT rare at all here) and then gone on to describe a situation whereby the the vendor did something wrong -whether it was customer service, a messed up order, etc. etc. etc. These negative comments are not removed - nor are the replies that debate back and forth (especially if the complaint against the vendor was not mentioned in the first post in the thread).

Note - so Its not thought that I'm 'breaking the rules about complaining about admin decisions or mod decisions (because I'm not) - Im asking for clarification of the rule (and perhaps a change of the way the rule is implemented )- and based on the last couple of examples of this policy I've read - I'm sure a lot of other people don't understand the rationale or how to deal with posts on threads that 'mention' a vendor in a negative manner'. Thanks

ADDENDUM - I read the responses from @revhtree - and if I could just respond. I agree - there should not be people making fake accounts, etc and mobbing a vendor. But - likewise - people shouldn't be creating POSITIVE reviews and then creating false accounts to reinforce the positives. It seems like the policy has good intentions - but it is not being enforced/used equally in all situations. While I completely get the point that mods can't read every post - it makes it very difficult to understand this policy because it is so differently used in different threads.

My key point - and sorry this is so long - the policy mentions vendors resolving issues with sellers on an individual basis (no comments from others are allowed). What is actually happening is that if a person posts a blatantly negative comment - with no request for an issue to be resolved - but merely a slam - that post is being moved to the 'Vendor feedback forum' and then all the responses/debate is being deleted. To me that is not what the policy says. Maybe I'm wrong?

 

[MnFish1]

To summarize we have two places you are able to leave feedback, rate and review a vendor and leave pros and cons.

You can rate and review here: https://www.reef2reef.com/showcase/category/saltwater-aquarium-stores.5/

You can create a thread here where we have 3400+ threads already: https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/vendor-feedback.18/

The guidelines state: Positive Feedback Threads: Outside comments will generally be allowed. However, they may be removed if the staff feels it is appropriate. For example, someone chiming in with their own negative experience.

Negative Feedback Threads: Outside comments are NOT permitted. The reason for this is to allow the vendor and member work through the negative experience. The staff will remove posts by other parties not pertaining to the transaction. The only exception to this is that users may post links (without commentary) to their own feedback threads with the same seller/buyer. These are the only outside party comments that are allowed.

With all due respect - if you search for customer service on R2R- >95 percent of the vendor forum feedback posts are 'negative' - and many of them have been moved there by the system (no problem thats the policy) - BUT - 95% of the positive reviews of vendors are left in the forum in which they are posted. They are not moved. SO - though the vendor forum is supposed to be for pros and cons - its not being moderated/used that way - it seems like its a way to move critical posts of a vendor to a less conspicuous place

Here are examples of posts in general forums in which there are multiple slams/complaints against vendors which were not moved - so its impossible (IMHO) to know whats allowed and whats not. This is from a scan of the first couple pages.

https://www.reef2reef.com/search/5633912/?q=bad+customer+service&o=relevance

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/thought-i-had-a-trident.609202/

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/glass-cages-tank-seam-failure.570331/

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/customer-service.601561/#post-6089611

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/waterbox-dream-turned-nightmare.500306/

None of these were moved to 'vendor feedback' - and there are 17 more pages of posts

Since this is the suggestion forum - Hopefully someone will look into this policy - or at least respond.

EDIT and when you have spent 45 minutes trying to show someone where the warranty location is for a product - and then all of your posts are deleted - its frustrating...

 

[TheHarold]

The guidelines state: Positive Feedback Threads: Outside comments will generally be allowed. However, they may be removed if the staff feels it is appropriate. For example, someone chiming in with their own negative experience.

Negative Feedback Threads: Outside comments are NOT permitted. The reason for this is to allow the vendor and member work through the negative experience. The staff will remove posts by other parties not pertaining to the transaction. The only exception to this is that users may post links (without commentary) to their own feedback threads with the same seller/buyer. These are the only outside party comments that are allowed.

With all due respect - if you search for customer service on R2R- >95 percent of the vendor forum feedback posts are 'negative' - and many of them have been moved there by the system (no problem thats the policy) - BUT - 95% of the positive reviews of vendors are left in the forum in which they are posted. They are not moved. SO - though the vendor forum is supposed to be for pros and cons - its not being moderated/used that way - it seems like its a way to move critical posts of a vendor to a less conspicuous place

Here are examples of posts in general forums in which there are multiple slams/complaints against vendors which were not moved - so its impossible (IMHO) to know whats allowed and whats not. This is from a scan of the first couple pages.

https://www.reef2reef.com/search/5633912/?q=bad+customer+service&o=relevance

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/thought-i-had-a-trident.609202/

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/glass-cages-tank-seam-failure.570331/

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/customer-service.601561/#post-6089611

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/waterbox-dream-turned-nightmare.500306/

None of these were moved to 'vendor feedback' - and there are 17 more pages of posts

Since this is the suggestion forum - Hopefully someone will look into this policy - or at least respond.

Very accurate- the majority of the time positive feedback is left in the sponsor forum, while negative feedback is moved. It certainly is a strategy avoid having negative content in sponsor’s forums.

 

[MnFish1]

Very accurate- the majority of the time positive feedback is left in the sponsor forum, while negative feedback is moved. It certainly is a strategy avoid having negative content in sponsor’s forums.

I dont know if its a strategy - but the policy the way it is enforced seems to result in that.