Vibrant freaking me out..

[Lasse]

Has there been ethical discussion about using this product? By analogy - If you had barking dogs and there was a pill that stopped most dogs from barking, but killed a small percentage of them, would you give your dogs that pill?

My concern about this product is basically ethical. As long as there is no description what is active and how the active mechanisms work. The weak description of it have make me a little scared. If this work (and it looks like it work), if it is a bacteria that eat algae, effective against macro algae and can be overdosed - there is reasons to be scared.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[UWC]

Hi Lasse, don’t over think it

 

[Lasse]

Hi Lasse, don’t over think it

They said that about DDT and Silent Spring back in the days too.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[hyprc]

IMO - This two sentences contradict each other. i do not get how a bacteria can be around for a long time and the same time be unfavorable to long term survival or ability to compete long term.


Sincerely Lasse

Nope, just because the bacteria has been around for a long time doesn't mean in marine environments. I have no doubt those strains has been exposed to marine, or more specifically, reef environments (by whatever vectors) but cannot survive long term, just like it cannot in our systems. Sorry I wasn't clear.

As for certainty, if there were plentiful examples (or even more) of people ridding themselves of bubble algae by doing nothing vs using Vibrant, I wouldn't be claiming Vibrant did anything... but it sure helps

 

[Lasse]

Nope, just because the bacteria has been around for a long time doesn't mean in marine environments

Where has it been around? Where have we seen algae free water caused by algae eating bacteria in natural freshwater?Why it is not used worldwide to defeat all algae outbreak in eutrophicated fresh water systems?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[hyprc]

Where has it been around? Where have we seen algae free water caused by algae eating bacteria in natural freshwater?Why it is not used worldwide to defeat all algae outbreak in eutrophicated fresh water systems?

Sincerely Lasse

Ask Vibrant. All I'm saying is I really doubt they invented some proprietary strain of super bacteria, they're just culturing what they've found 'elsewhere' that works. What I observe is this bacteria doesn't survive long term in marine (reef) environments but does affect macro algae when supplemented regularly to replenish the system. Stop the outside introduction of the foreign bacteria and the system returns to normal in a couple months and can again sustain macro without issue... demonstrating my point.

 

[Lasse]

What I observe is this bacteria doesn't survive long term in marine (reef) environments but does affect macro algae when supplemented regularly to replenish the system. Stop the outside introduction of the foreign bacteria and the system returns to normal in a couple months and can again sustain macro without issue... demonstrating my point.

My point is that it can be valid for your aquarium with your ecosystem but if it is - it is not the same as it valid for another aquarium with at total different microbial ecosystem from the beginning. If it is a microbiological weapon against micro algae - it can be enough that one aquarium will produce a strain that will survive in the nature and you will have the Armageddon sooner or later. If anything is pathogenic to one of the fundamental building blocks of life in the universe - the photosynthetic micro algae - we are in trouble.

I do not know if I need to be worried or not - I do not know what the product contain - but if anyone state that it works with help of bacteria that eat living photosynthetic organisms it can´t mean anything else than an algae pathogenic bacteria and I base all my concerns around that. And that it seems to work make makes me even more scared. From a famous motion picture

Sincerely Lasse

 

[pygoplites77]

Why doesn't the manufacturer of Vibrant (@UWC) intervene and give us a definitive answer to the doubts of Lasse and all the others? Also because, if vibrant attacks macroalgae directly and not through competition on nutrients, why can it fight even Cyano and Dinos which are NOT maroalgae? Ultimately: some aquariums crash due to the rush of nutrients or because vibrant also directly affects zooxanthellae? There is a need for clear answers to these questions ... I am waiting ...

 

[Val Shebeko]

I’ve been adding 1 ml a day for about 14 days, going to stop. Dud a water change yesterday and did nit add more. Seems to Me phosphates are way way up.

 

[MnFish1]

Ya, I feel dumb for even attempting it.. All my sps were really coming into there own.. But I have Dino’s as well as other algae issues.. So the Dino’s were killing my snails which meant no clean up crew to eat the algae until I got rid of the Dino’s. Other then 2 large Mexican turbos I have had in the tank since I started it up a bit over a year ago.. They seem to be immune to it or something but they can’t handle all of it..

Actually - dont feel dumb - I had the same experience - but - there is no more bubble algae - also most (not all) of the coral died in my tank within a week - were you - perhaps - like me - more impatient and used a higher dose - or miscalculated the dose? I has such good results after a week - I reduced it the next week - instead of 2 weeks - and within a day - coral started dying.

 

[MnFish1]

Vibrant pretty much wiped my nano reef out only my Setosa and Organ Pipe survived it, it killed nearly everything else Acans, Duster Clusters, Snails etc , but didn't touch the bubble algae that i started its use for

Many do seem to have good results with it, Just be careful using it and watch the health of your tank closely

First time i have had a tank disaster in my 15 years of reefing and it was thanks to Vibrant, only decided to use it after reading all the positive experiences people had with it

Yes - this is interesting - my pipe setsosa also did fine....

 

[MnFish1]

a week after using this product (which I think works for what it says it will do) - my nitrates rose from 5 to >120. I have the feeling that I shoudl have been checking more frequently during this time - but I didnt. With water changes - a lot of the coral that 'died' - literally was covered with dinoflagellates, etc - has now come back

 

[MnFish1]

Vibrant won't directly impact coral. What it will do is cause nutrient shifts that, if not controlled, can have a very negative impact on corals. Keep in mind that you are using it to kill algae. Algae is both a major consumer of nutrients and acts as a filter for other impurities. If you start killing this filter off it can have some very negative impacts.
The only thing I use Vibrant for (or similar products) is for algae that I can't find a CuC member to eat. That is always the best first choice imo. Right now I'm fighting a member of what I believe to be in the bryopsidae family. Nothing will eat this stuff. Dosing Vibrant at just over 1ml/10g every 3 days with no negative impact.

I think this is right - as well as the 'stuff' the algae releases when it dies

 

[MnFish1]

If you still have bottle- I will buy it. Have algae in one tank and thinking about trying it..

I will give you mine. I think it would be great for a FOWLR tank

 

[MnFish1]

This is the big Vibrant post on R2R with 5000+ comments. You will see a lot of success stories, a few horror stories, and some who saw no change at all. I spend quite a bit of time on it trying to help people. I had huge algae problems with my first reef tank and tried Vibrant. It made things so much worse. The owner of UWC reached out to me and explained why I had the problems I did and walked me through. Within a month the tank looked great. Now I try to help others in the same way. There is so much variety in reef tanks that basic directions don't do the product justice.


I feel people try to use it that way and it can cause troubles. Most of the other bacterial based algae treatments do work this way. Vibrant has some bacteria that directly attack the algae itself. I've seen it on my microscope but haven't been able to film it. @jason2459 captured and posted a video of the bacteria tearing a chunk of algae off a strand. Fascinating stuff. With the current algae I'm battling I am dosing every 3 days put keeping my NO3 at 20ppm and PO4 at 0.08ppm. Even with elevated nutrients like I have (mixed reef) it's starting to take out this algae.


It's use has led to more than one reef tank being smoked, no doubt about it. I can't stress enough about taking it slow, ramping up, and being very observant just like you should with any product. It's not exactly as dramatic as Chemiclean but it is similar. Chemiclean has a ton of positive reviews but more than a few cases where it has killed almost every living thing in peoples tanks. No one seems to be able to narrow down exactly what the trigger is that make some of these products dangerous for some systems and harmless in others.

My guess is its the dose, the speed of updating - and any form of carbon. The lack or in place (sorry I cant think of the right word) - of a skimmer. Funny thing - most of my SPS died. I did a couple nearly complete water changes - I had the same algae problems I had before - and just waited - its now 'resolved'. I've come to the conclusion that 'products' may do more harm than good - and that some 'positive results' - are because of time - not the product. JMO

 

[merereef]

Hopefully the one dose took care of some of the Dino’s so I can keep some snails alive.. [emoji849]

hi mate sorry to hear about the coral loss.. anyway.. heres what im thinking and what i would do... DONT dose any more vibrant loll do water changes maybe run carbon..

Next stop dosing nitrates and phosphates especially IF you have algea issues already... let the algea grow for now... once it is long enough manually remove them by hand turn off flow.. algea may be the reason why you may be testing low on your nitrates/phosphates.. secondly once they have been removed... add clean up crew.. i found ASTREA snails and a blue tuxedo urchin the BEST.. literally i can feed as heavy as i want i never get algea i dont run refugium or carbon dose any more just a skimmer and my levels never rise.. they do a good job. Now lastly... dang man this is the big one DINOS... they worst!!! So i have been battling them for about 8 months and can now say i have beat them.. you have to know what type you have.. if you have a uv stereliser and thats not working then it will most likely be amphidinium dinos.... these are a nightmare as uv cant get to them.. after a long time researching i found a thing called sillicate dosing... you dose silicates to create a diatom bloom.. diatoms grow as fast or faster than dinos imand thus outcompeting them.. took me 2-3 weeks of dosing and guess what... they are finally gone!! Anyway mate good luck i hope this helps you in someway

 

[Lasse]

@MnFish1 In order to understand more - did you measured the nitrite when you get high nitrate readings? Rise of nitrate from 5 to > 120 ppm during a couple of days indicate that the nitrification process is in disorder and you have high nitrites instead.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[kaifish]

I’m on 3 weeks using vibrant for a bad turf algae outbreak. The turf algae is about 70 percent gone and my corals are all good with the exception of a acan colony. So far so good

 

[Scorpius]

If you have a large algae outbreak and just add Vibrant you will have a large die off of algae leading to a nitrate spike which will kill coral. You have to use Vibrant as part of you arsenal and not as a panacea.

 

[kaifish]

I do a weekly 20 percent water change before my doses and haven’t had any nitrate issues. I also do manual removal before the water change. No issues with my corals