Water change idea... Gimmicky or Innovative?

[WallyB]

Very cool man. I hadn’t realised
Those peri pumps got so inexpensive.

Have you checked calibration any in the last 2 months? How fast is the flow on those?

My calibration is still very good after 3 months. The geared (step down) motors don't vary much.
If it ever does go off calibration my sensors will pick it up.
I built a DIY Doser using the small 6 Volt Peri's like 2+ years ago. Never need to calibrated it since installed.

For the Irrigation version I used on WC...Look at the Spec of the Pump at the bottom of the Sales Link I provided.
There are a few choices (Depending on the tubing diameter). Flow ranges From 350ml/min to 550ml/min. I got the 550 version for my Water Changer (Quicker is better, and accuracy within spec)

The one's I showed are the High Volume/LongLife Peri Irrigation Pumps (why good for Water Changes).
Typical Kamoer DC Volt pumps for Dosing can run you like $9 each.
Of course you can get Super Accurate Stepper versions, even better than in the DOS for like $200 a pop.
Check out the Massive Kamoer selection here https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20191114185352&SearchText=kamoer
(But always wait for a SALE if considering a purchase. They go like 25%-30% off minimum) You just missed 11/11 sale.

 

[WallyB]

Found it... took some looking.

Take a look at the installation instructions for the genesis renew and take it from there

Is that your video and setup. Great idea on the Water Management. Very Creative.!!
But Wiring Management is another story.
Look at around 57 second mark.
Live High Voltage Wires, barely covered, under misting/bubbling buckets of highly conductive SALT water. Exposed Ballasts too!!
Even more salt water under.
YIKES!!!
Maybe it's not your Electrical Setup (or has been improved). If it is still like that... SORRY, but you've lived long and have been lucky.
Just trying to point out something that needs Life Saving Improvement. No ill intent meant at all.

I assume this is AT LEAST RUNNING on GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupt) protected Power? (Ground probe as a bonus!!)
I ask this question many times when I see people doing their own Tank AC work. I learned my own mistake years ago, when I got a Good Strong Zap (finger tip) but could have been Right Arm Deep in Tank (that's is connected to one's Heart).

 

[laguest]

Great thread!

 

[bar|none]

Ok, so to take it to the next level...in large scale software services deployed to cloud (zero downtime) we call this the blue / green deploy...

2 x 5 gallons buckets...one is the blue one...one is the green. Y valve to switch between the two..other specifics needed but this is the rough idea.

So you are running on green, fill blue with the new water, switch to blue. Next water change start with blue switch to green.

You can also do the switch slowly....

Just a fun idea

 

[User]

Is that your video and setup. Great idea on the Water Management. Very Creative.!!
But Wiring Management is another story.
Look at around 57 second mark.
Live High Voltage Wires, barely covered, under misting/bubbling buckets of highly conductive SALT water. Exposed Ballasts too!!
Even more salt water under.
YIKES!!!
Maybe it's not your Electrical Setup (or has been improved). If it is still like that... SORRY, but you've lived long and have been lucky.
Just trying to point out something that needs Life Saving Improvement. No ill intent meant at all.

I assume this is AT LEAST RUNNING on GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupt) protected Power? (Ground probe as a bonus!!)
I ask this question many times when I see people doing their own Tank AC work. I learned my own mistake years ago, when I got a Good Strong Zap (finger tip) but could have been Right Arm Deep in Tank (that's is connected to one's Heart).

Lol, no, that’s not me. I cringe every time I watch it though, for reasons you pointed out.

My outlets near water sources are all gfci protected (I even rewired downstream outlets on the load side, not line, as the electrician originally had them...) and all outlets are above tank trim level. Actually, they are at 5 feet off the ground. Unused outlets have baby proofing plugs coated in anti-tarnish paste to stop unnecessary corrosion.

Thanks for the info on the pumps- gives me a second design for the system that I can price our abd mock up

 

[WallyB]

Lol, no, that’s not me. I cringe every time I watch it though, for reasons you pointed out.

My outlets near water sources are all gfci protected (I even rewired downstream outlets on the load side, not line, as the electrician originally had them...) and all outlets are above tank trim level. Actually, they are at 5 feet off the ground. Unused outlets have baby proofing plugs coated in anti-tarnish paste to stop unnecessary corrosion.

Thanks for the info on the pumps- gives me a second design for the system that I can price our abd mock up

Whew!!! I had a GUT feeling (it wasn't your setup) it was some video you found from Dr Reef Franken's Tank.
Those Twist NUT Wire Caps point up Near Salt Water to a Electrical Engineer like me, was like Finger Nails on a Blackboard.
Hey @neilp2006, certainly share when you get your WC design planned or built. Here or on my Thread.
Certainly will to share some of my testing, lessons learned, or tag along to give you encouragement or Praise. (You got a thread where you'll be building?)

 

[WallyB]

Yeah. My basic idea is to have it plumbed in similar to a reactor (just without the media). I suppose it could double as a refugium too (or pretty much anything else) as long as the water volume stays at around 10% of the tank volume.

Sorry for the side topic...... Time to get back to Daniel's Thread and Idea.

I didn't notice this 2nd post above, after the Original Description of the Idea.

Let me understand.

-> (1) You basically adding 5 Gallon Bucket/Container to the System.
-> (2A) Then draining it.
-> (2B)) Then filling it back up with NEW Salt water.

So Step 2A/2B is the Water change.
And (1) is a in system Pre-Measured Water change amount/container. Fixed/Stationary (no lifting needed).

That's a nice idea. I see a very useful possibility here.

This Bucket is plumbed like a LARGE REACTOR, 100% sealed.....
SO HOW DOES WATER FLOW THRU IT? (Pump?, Cascade/Gravity? ) (sorry if I missed the answer)
and next question would be (Where does the SOURCE Water Come from, and Where does it Drain to?)
And Last question would be how do we empty/fill the 5 Gallon Extra Reserve?

 

[Jon Fishman]

I think, on systems plumbed to a basement, an additional drain going to a stop/gate/whatever valve would be very easy/practical.

You roll a brute under it, line marked to how much water you want...... turn valve on, and tank just pushes water out at a fast rate, close valve at desired level, then put that much new water in your sump in the basement, and turn your return pump back on.......

Basically just like pulling the rubber stopper out of an old bathtub

 

[WallyB]

Yeah. My basic idea is to have it plumbed in similar to a reactor (just without the media). I suppose it could double as a refugium too (or pretty much anything else) as long as the water volume stays at around 10% of the tank volume.

Actually @Daniel@R2R, we think alike.

IT JUST HIT ME!!! It just Understand your Idea!!! Here it is in Action. (Automated too!)

* LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT * Not a sealed reactor design like you suggest. (Open Concept)

Few years ago when I custom built my 55 Gallon Sump for my 110G DT, I designed such a Compartment in the Sump.
A 5 Gallon Refuge section (Separate and contained) that could serve as an Isolated Refuge, or a POSSIBLE FUTURE WATER CHANGE Compartment like you describe. (Why I chose 5 Gallon capacity to match system WC requirement for a every other week WC)

Skip to the MIDDLE of this SUMP Test run VIDEO to see that 5 Gallon Comparment fill.



It was originally just a Refuge like you suggest. Filled Slowly by a MaxJet, and draining into the Overflow Compartment.

THEN a while later when I built a DIY Doser, I added logic to use that Compartment as a WATER CHANGER.

This was the Test RUN that Shows your idea in Action. Automated, using Maxijet Pumps.



It was Great. I used that Water Change method for a while. Change the bucket in video to a larger Rubbermaid tube with a Lid.

Then (One MaxiJet Failed like they always do..IMPELELLER GOES) and I went back to Manual Water changes, until I built the Newer PeriPump Driven Water Changer.

That section now is A Refuge. I love it.
Sometimes I use it to add fish into system (after QT), before they go into DT (so they are part of system, but not with other fish right away)
Recently I added acclimated to TWO Firefire in that section. They got use to each other for 8 weeks, and then when they went into DT they are inseparable.


Putting that concept aside. I still am interested in answer in my previous post.
How you would setup/run that Sealed Reactor for this Water Change idea?

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Sorry for the side topic...... Time to get back to Daniel's Thread and Idea.

I didn't notice this 2nd post above, after the Original Description of the Idea.

Let me understand.

-> (1) You basically adding 5 Gallon Bucket/Container to the System.
-> (2A) Then draining it.
-> (2B)) Then filling it back up with NEW Salt water.

So Step 2A/2B is the Water change.
And (1) is a in system Pre-Measured Water change amount/container. Fixed/Stationary (no lifting needed).

That's a nice idea. I see a very useful possibility here.

This Bucket is plumbed like a LARGE REACTOR, 100% sealed.....
SO HOW DOES WATER FLOW THRU IT? (Pump?, Cascade/Gravity? ) (sorry if I missed the answer)
and next question would be (Where does the SOURCE Water Come from, and Where does it Drain to?)
And Last question would be how do we empty/fill the 5 Gallon Extra Reserve?

Hey @WallyB! Thanks for sharing your design! I think what you have in the videos is a bit more sophisticated than I was thinking of doing.

Basically, my idea would be to use a 5 gallon bucket with a lid that seals water tight when it snaps on. The plumbing would be plumbed into the top with bulkheads. So, to answer your questions:

SO HOW DOES WATER FLOW THRU IT? (Pump?, Cascade/Gravity? ) I'm thinking of pumping the water through it. Perhaps a manifold off the return or maybe just a dedicated pump of some type. Like in a reactor, the plumbing would be an inlet where the water is pumped in, and an outlet that is basically overflowing back into the sump (water pumps through).

I did also think the suggested idea of having the tank's overflow gravity feed it was a great idea bc then the bucket would become a detritus/particle trap that would get dumped at every water change.

Source water is the sump (or possibly the tank's overflow) and drain is back into the sump.

I'm not planning to have an extra reserve. My idea was to keep this whole thing SUPER simple with a single bucket. Process is this: 1) turn off valve to WC reservoir bucket --> 2) Disconnect bucket from tank --> 3) Dump bucket --> 4) refill bucket with RODI and mix saltwater in bucket --> 5) reconnect bucket and turn valve back on to begin water circulation again.

I suppose I could do this by simply having a 2nd bucket of premixed saltwater that I could quickly swap out with the bucket I'm dumping...that would probably be more advisable as the water change wouldn't have to wait on mixing saltwater before reconnecting the bucket reservoir...but I think either way (1 bucket or 2) could work just fine.

 

[WallyB]

Hey @WallyB! Thanks for sharing your design! I think what you have in the videos is a bit more sophisticated than I was thinking of doing.

Basically, my idea would be to use a 5 gallon bucket with a lid that seals water tight when it snaps on. The plumbing would be plumbed into the top with bulkheads. So, to answer your questions:

SO HOW DOES WATER FLOW THRU IT? (Pump?, Cascade/Gravity? ) I'm thinking of pumping the water through it. Perhaps a manifold off the return or maybe just a dedicated pump of some type. Like in a reactor, the plumbing would be an inlet where the water is pumped in, and an outlet that is basically overflowing back into the sump (water pumps through).

I did also think the suggested idea of having the tank's overflow gravity feed it was a great idea bc then the bucket would become a detritus/particle trap that would get dumped at every water change.

Source water is the sump (or possibly the tank's overflow) and drain is back into the sump.

I'm not planning to have an extra reserve. My idea was to keep this whole thing SUPER simple with a single bucket. Process is this: 1) turn off valve to WC reservoir bucket --> 2) Disconnect bucket from tank --> 3) Dump bucket --> 4) refill bucket with RODI and mix saltwater in bucket --> 5) reconnect bucket and turn valve back on to begin water circulation again.

I suppose I could do this by simply having a 2nd bucket of premixed saltwater that I could quickly swap out with the bucket I'm dumping...that would probably be more advisable as the water change wouldn't have to wait on mixing saltwater before reconnecting the bucket reservoir...but I think either way (1 bucket or 2) could work just fine.

Couple of comments.

The overflow Gravity concept sounds a bit risky (depending on design)
Many of us have an a 2nd overflow-run to mitigate a possible stoppage, so risk would be reduced (should something with bucket plug up). Further risk could be reduced if the overflow sends only a partial amount of water to the sealed bucket (so kind of a trickle flow that passes thru the bucket.).

Dedicated pump is certainly safer. A simple pump, that fill bucket like a reactor.

Yes, the valve idea to change water is best. Removing bucket is almost as much work as doing the water change with two buckets (if not more work)

As far as a sealed bucket. It better be a reliable seal. I've come across threaded Salt Buckets and that would be the best bet, over snap ons (that break my finger nails all the time). It can't be a permanently sealed bucket since as you say, that's were you will add/remove/or mix in your new salt.

Last question to make you idea work.
How are you going to empty that bucket (to do the water change)?

 

[Daniel@R2R]

The overflow Gravity concept sounds a bit risky (depending on design)
Many of us have an a 2nd overflow-run to mitigate a possible stoppage, so risk would be reduced (should something with bucket plug up). Further risk could be reduced if the overflow sends only a partial amount of water to the sealed bucket (so kind of a trickle flow that passes thru the bucket.).

Dedicated pump is certainly safer. A simple pump, that fill bucket like a reactor.

Yep. That was my hesitation too... well, that and the work of trying to plumb something into my overflow...it wouldn't be easy...

 

[Feet4Fish]

Might consider a gamma seal lid

 

[WallyB]

Yep. That was my hesitation too... well, that and the work of trying to plumb something into my overflow...it wouldn't be easy...

Well if you want SIMPLE (no electronics) , let me rewind back a decade.

This was my first 5 Gallon Water changer. Used it for years.

Just need to raise sump high enough to fit Bucket/Container underneath, and let gravity/Water Pressure do the work.

Was Super Fast.

It actually was Great till I upgrade my Tank to 110G (when I plugged the sump Hole)