Water Change or No Water Change

[Charlie the Reefer]

First let me say I know there are many threads on this topic (and I feel like I have read through all of them)...

I wanted to get a fresh perspective on this from the community. As a newer reefer about to set up a 150G system... I'm thinking about design considerations to make water changes easier (or even setting up continuous water change). However, I don't like doing things just because people tell me to, and not understanding it, and I feel like that's the case for water changes. Here's my thoughts... And please call me out if I'm wrong I'm trying to learn. For clarity I'm talking about regularly scheduled weekly/monthly/continuous water changes, NOT water changes when something bad happens (those make clear sense to me).

If you're using it to rid something bad. By my calculations, if you have a toxic substance introduced in your tank all at once, even if you do a 20% monthly water change, after 6 months ~30% of that substance will remain... Takeaway is if something really bad gets introduced to your tank, regular water changes isn't necessarily going to meaningfully combat it. You're better off doing huge water changes over the course of 1-2 weeks when this occurs.

If you're using it for export. To me, what is regularly produced in a reef tank environment can be naturally exported, and if you rely on water changes from my perspective it will just lower the "base consumption/export rate" of your whole system.

If you're using it to replenish. Again, same as export, all that will do is lower the "base amount" of things you need to dose into your water, because it will be replenished by new SW regularly. I don't see this as a significant benefit, because you're still needing to dose things...

The biggest problem I have is that religious water changes almost seem inherently wasteful to me. You're blowing through salt, RODI water, setting up infrastructure for it, and also dumping what could be good water down the drain.


Takeaway for me is, unless I'm convinced otherwise, I'm only going to do "emergency water changes" when something goes bad. So what are your guys thoughts... And again sorry if there's a million threads on this topic ): I really wanted to get a fresh take.

 

[lapin]

My tank looks better with regular water changes

 

[EricR]

I like to vacuum my sand so that, basically, is my water change.

 

[ReefGeezer]

First let me say I know there are many threads on this topic (and I feel like I have read through all of them)...

Takeaway for me is, unless I'm convinced otherwise, I'm only going to do "emergency water changes" when something goes bad. So what are your guys thoughts... And again sorry if there's a million threads on this topic ): I really wanted to get a fresh take.

Looks like you've already made a decision. There really isn't a fresh take. The info you have read in the old threads is still valid. Nothing has changed.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

If I had a big tank like yours I would dread water changes and do everything to try to avoid them and try to convince myself that they are not needed.

But on my nano tanks, I find water changes to be therapeutic.

 

[G Santana]

My 2 cents, my tank is 130 gallon with a 30 gallon sump, I went an entire year without water changes with one 30 gallon in the year. My tank did ok with a skimmer, scrubber, UV and AFR added.
But ever so slowly I saw a decline in the overall health of the tank, nothing drastic just not 100%.
I recently did a 30 gallon water change and within weeks the tank looks appreciably better.
Yes you can get away without water changes but I think that a tank benefits by at least the occasional water change in ways you can't get by omitting them.

Just my experience, I will continue with monthly water changes.

 

[dvgyfresh]

I don’t do water changes as well, the chaeto is thrown out every two weeks and trace elements/ cal, alk , mg dosing need I especially love chemi pure blue , need to get more lol

 

[Charlie the Reefer]

Thanks everyone for the responses/info. Appreciated.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

First let me say I know there are many threads on this topic (and I feel like I have read through all of them)...

I wanted to get a fresh perspective on this from the community. As a newer reefer about to set up a 150G system... I'm thinking about design considerations to make water changes easier (or even setting up continuous water change). However, I don't like doing things just because people tell me to, and not understanding it, and I feel like that's the case for water changes. Here's my thoughts... And please call me out if I'm wrong I'm trying to learn. For clarity I'm talking about regularly scheduled weekly/monthly/continuous water changes, NOT water changes when something bad happens (those make clear sense to me).

If you're using it to rid something bad. By my calculations, if you have a toxic substance introduced in your tank all at once, even if you do a 20% monthly water change, after 6 months ~30% of that substance will remain... Takeaway is if something really bad gets introduced to your tank, regular water changes isn't necessarily going to meaningfully combat it. You're better off doing huge water changes over the course of 1-2 weeks when this occurs.

If you're using it for export. To me, what is regularly produced in a reef tank environment can be naturally exported, and if you rely on water changes from my perspective it will just lower the "base consumption/export rate" of your whole system.

If you're using it to replenish. Again, same as export, all that will do is lower the "base amount" of things you need to dose into your water, because it will be replenished by new SW regularly. I don't see this as a significant benefit, because you're still needing to dose things...

The biggest problem I have is that religious water changes almost seem inherently wasteful to me. You're blowing through salt, RODI water, setting up infrastructure for it, and also dumping what could be good water down the drain.


Takeaway for me is, unless I'm convinced otherwise, I'm only going to do "emergency water changes" when something goes bad. So what are your guys thoughts... And again sorry if there's a million threads on this topic ): I really wanted to get a fresh take.

what if you are using them to prevent bad things from accumulating? Not solving an already bad problem, but preventing a problem.

The math can work out fine for that, and there are few other options that catch anything and everything that might be an issue without you even needing to know about it.

organic toxins, for example.

 

[Charlie the Reefer]

what if you are using them to prevent bad things from accumulating? Not solving an already bad problem, but preventing a problem.

The math can work out fine for that, and there are few other options that catch anything and everything that might be an issue without you even needing to know about it.

organic toxins, for example.

That makes sense. Much appreciated. I printed out a huge packet with a lot of your content and still plowing through that lots to learn.

 

[wculver]

First let me say I know there are many threads on this topic (and I feel like I have read through all of them)...

I wanted to get a fresh perspective on this from the community. As a newer reefer about to set up a 150G system... I'm thinking about design considerations to make water changes easier (or even setting up continuous water change). However, I don't like doing things just because people tell me to, and not understanding it, and I feel like that's the case for water changes. Here's my thoughts... And please call me out if I'm wrong I'm trying to learn. For clarity I'm talking about regularly scheduled weekly/monthly/continuous water changes, NOT water changes when something bad happens (those make clear sense to me).

If you're using it to rid something bad. By my calculations, if you have a toxic substance introduced in your tank all at once, even if you do a 20% monthly water change, after 6 months ~30% of that substance will remain... Takeaway is if something really bad gets introduced to your tank, regular water changes isn't necessarily going to meaningfully combat it. You're better off doing huge water changes over the course of 1-2 weeks when this occurs.

If you're using it for export. To me, what is regularly produced in a reef tank environment can be naturally exported, and if you rely on water changes from my perspective it will just lower the "base consumption/export rate" of your whole system.

If you're using it to replenish. Again, same as export, all that will do is lower the "base amount" of things you need to dose into your water, because it will be replenished by new SW regularly. I don't see this as a significant benefit, because you're still needing to dose things...

The biggest problem I have is that religious water changes almost seem inherently wasteful to me. You're blowing through salt, RODI water, setting up infrastructure for it, and also dumping what could be good water down the drain.


Takeaway for me is, unless I'm convinced otherwise, I'm only going to do "emergency water changes" when something goes bad. So what are your guys thoughts... And again sorry if there's a million threads on this topic ): I really wanted to get a fresh take.

This was my position for about three years and from my perspective I think it's a pendulum swing. Zero water changes being just as detrimental as too frequent.

That said, i ran with zero water changes for three years. I really could only go 3-6 months before there were major issues with over night crashes that even a water change couldn't solve quickly. I did learn a great deal from this and have made major changes to my setup to try and make a zero water change setup.

What I ended up with is a fantastic nutrient processor and even have to add nitrate. This includes an over size skimmer, bio pellet reactor, chaeto and other macro algae with a 150 watt light. What I have to test most often is nitrate to ensure I don't bottom out. Instant death if I do that. Once I arrived to this I thought I was golden. Well not quite.

What I found was I'd still have a hard time with some coral and even crashes that I identified patterns with. What I found is for all the reasons for water changes it is for ionic balance. Even the balling method, while I believe is correct for normal coral growth, if you have clams and hard corals under high quality light and heavy feeding dosing requirements get high and that's when I have found trace elements get out of alignment. Many ICP tests later and I figure this out.

Ultimately even now that I have dialled back the trace elements significantly the water changes are a net positive for the tank for both coloration and growth. I also don't end up with random crashes.

So in short I say water changes should align with your tank needs. All softies you can go longer. If you have SPS and clams under high intensity light and heavy feeding you'd benefit greatly from weekly changes to adjust the ionic balance and better manage the chemistry over time.

 

[Susan Edwards]

I'm doing a hybrid. I don't want to do large amts, as big tank equals large water changes. So I do some awc but only 1-3 gal at a time to keep from affecting my alk/ca/mg. Prob. around 5% a week.

Tank is 8 mo, and I'm still trying to stabilize, and the one large change I did after reef flux, threw all my numbers off and it took a long time to settle. After using chemiclean for the cyano that came after the reef flex, I just did a week of 3-5 gal awc.

I haven't tried using my manifold to do a large change yet. I admit I am nervous doing something new. As for siphoning the sandbed, , I did that once. My sandbed is pretty clean. Only a few spots had stuff. My trouble is I have to use a 24" siphon tube (and I'm short and on a tall stepstool) and my rockwork and corals are in the way of using that tube, esp if it gets away from me and hits things. Also my rockwork is pretty fragile with spires. I find I can use my rake tool once a week or so to clean the sandbed and let the stuff go through the skimmer (and filter floss and socks).

So I'll do big ones if there is a need. Otherwise, I do some awc, not daily but 2-3 times a week for about 5% right now.

 

[Koh23]

Water changes are still important, just not on so regular basis, but again, this is highly specific for any tank, no rule or guide when and what.....

You need to find balance between waisting water,salt and time and acctualy doing something good for your tank. Is this point once per week, once per month, year... Every tank is slightly different and everyone needs to find own ballance....

Even frequent water changes can have role in your tank/corals being not happy....

 

[Roli's Reef Ranch]

First let me say I know there are many threads on this topic (and I feel like I have read through all of them)...

I wanted to get a fresh perspective on this from the community. As a newer reefer about to set up a 150G system... I'm thinking about design considerations to make water changes easier (or even setting up continuous water change). However, I don't like doing things just because people tell me to, and not understanding it, and I feel like that's the case for water changes. Here's my thoughts... And please call me out if I'm wrong I'm trying to learn. For clarity I'm talking about regularly scheduled weekly/monthly/continuous water changes, NOT water changes when something bad happens (those make clear sense to me).

If you're using it to rid something bad. By my calculations, if you have a toxic substance introduced in your tank all at once, even if you do a 20% monthly water change, after 6 months ~30% of that substance will remain... Takeaway is if something really bad gets introduced to your tank, regular water changes isn't necessarily going to meaningfully combat it. You're better off doing huge water changes over the course of 1-2 weeks when this occurs.

If you're using it for export. To me, what is regularly produced in a reef tank environment can be naturally exported, and if you rely on water changes from my perspective it will just lower the "base consumption/export rate" of your whole system.

If you're using it to replenish. Again, same as export, all that will do is lower the "base amount" of things you need to dose into your water, because it will be replenished by new SW regularly. I don't see this as a significant benefit, because you're still needing to dose things...

The biggest problem I have is that religious water changes almost seem inherently wasteful to me. You're blowing through salt, RODI water, setting up infrastructure for it, and also dumping what could be good water down the drain.


Takeaway for me is, unless I'm convinced otherwise, I'm only going to do "emergency water changes" when something goes bad. So what are your guys thoughts... And again sorry if there's a million threads on this topic ): I really wanted to get a fresh take.

Your list is correct. Definitely pros and cons here. Also, keep in mind the risks of water changes. Expert reefers such as Mark Levinson virtually crashed their tank due to defective salt (Aquavitro w/no potassium), then there was the Tropic Marin "Turkish Blend" fiasco affecting thousands. I believe there is a place for water changes, but keep in mind that there are risks.

If your system is doing fine, what are you trying to accomplish through water changes? I personally don't use any salt unless I've had it for 6 months to see if anybody reports bad salt, which seems to be happening at least yearly with different manufacturers. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I stay on top of all parameters, dose trace elements, and do ICPs occasionally and that works for me. For somebody just starting out, and with a new tank that is inherently less stable (especially with dry rock), water changes are most likely to be a higher probability pathway to success.

 

[gbroadbridge]

First let me say I know there are many threads on this topic (and I feel like I have read through all of them)...

I wanted to get a fresh perspective on this from the community. As a newer reefer about to set up a 150G system... I'm thinking about design considerations to make water changes easier (or even setting up continuous water change). However, I don't like doing things just because people tell me to, and not understanding it, and I feel like that's the case for water changes. Here's my thoughts... And please call me out if I'm wrong I'm trying to learn. For clarity I'm talking about regularly scheduled weekly/monthly/continuous water changes, NOT water changes when something bad happens (those make clear sense to me).

If you're using it to rid something bad. By my calculations, if you have a toxic substance introduced in your tank all at once, even if you do a 20% monthly water change, after 6 months ~30% of that substance will remain... Takeaway is if something really bad gets introduced to your tank, regular water changes isn't necessarily going to meaningfully combat it. You're better off doing huge water changes over the course of 1-2 weeks when this occurs.

If you're using it for export. To me, what is regularly produced in a reef tank environment can be naturally exported, and if you rely on water changes from my perspective it will just lower the "base consumption/export rate" of your whole system.

If you're using it to replenish. Again, same as export, all that will do is lower the "base amount" of things you need to dose into your water, because it will be replenished by new SW regularly. I don't see this as a significant benefit, because you're still needing to dose things...

The biggest problem I have is that religious water changes almost seem inherently wasteful to me. You're blowing through salt, RODI water, setting up infrastructure for it, and also dumping what could be good water down the drain.


Takeaway for me is, unless I'm convinced otherwise, I'm only going to do "emergency water changes" when something goes bad. So what are your guys thoughts... And again sorry if there's a million threads on this topic ): I really wanted to get a fresh take.

Read the old threads.

This has been done to death and everyone does it their own way.

 

[Charlie the Reefer]

Thanks for the perspectives everyone.

 

[reefnfun]

I have a large tank and set it up so my overflow can be directed into the sewer. Water changes are easy for me I use pumps and valves. You have put a lot of effort into which is best. I do 50 gallons a week. Let me give you one thought. The answer to pollution is dilution. Others on here say water changes add problems to their tank through the salt. Good luck to you on your Journey and figure out what works for you. Take care

 

[Saltydog22]

First let me say I know there are many threads on this topic (and I feel like I have read through all of them)...

I wanted to get a fresh perspective on this from the community. As a newer reefer about to set up a 150G system... I'm thinking about design considerations to make water changes easier (or even setting up continuous water change). However, I don't like doing things just because people tell me to, and not understanding it, and I feel like that's the case for water changes. Here's my thoughts... And please call me out if I'm wrong I'm trying to learn. For clarity I'm talking about regularly scheduled weekly/monthly/continuous water changes, NOT water changes when something bad happens (those make clear sense to me).

If you're using it to rid something bad. By my calculations, if you have a toxic substance introduced in your tank all at once, even if you do a 20% monthly water change, after 6 months ~30% of that substance will remain... Takeaway is if something really bad gets introduced to your tank, regular water changes isn't necessarily going to meaningfully combat it. You're better off doing huge water changes over the course of 1-2 weeks when this occurs.

If you're using it for export. To me, what is regularly produced in a reef tank environment can be naturally exported, and if you rely on water changes from my perspective it will just lower the "base consumption/export rate" of your whole system.

If you're using it to replenish. Again, same as export, all that will do is lower the "base amount" of things you need to dose into your water, because it will be replenished by new SW regularly. I don't see this as a significant benefit, because you're still needing to dose things...

The biggest problem I have is that religious water changes almost seem inherently wasteful to me. You're blowing through salt, RODI water, setting up infrastructure for it, and also dumping what could be good water down the drain.


Takeaway for me is, unless I'm convinced otherwise, I'm only going to do "emergency water changes" when something goes bad. So what are your guys thoughts... And again sorry if there's a million threads on this topic ): I really wanted to get a fresh take.

no water change

 

[Roli's Reef Ranch]

Read the old threads.

This has been done to death and everyone does it their own way.

That's what he said he did in the first line of his post. Let's try to be helpful to newer reefers.

 

[ilikefish69]

Set up an easy way to conduct water changes so you feel better about having to possibly do them. I only have a 75 and don’t do any dosing but I also only keep mushroom, GSP, anemone and 2 clown so I don’t think I’m a great example