ClowinRound
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should my skimmer be on while cycling the water?
water cycling
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Lenny_S
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ClowinRound
Well-Known Member
thanks
It would remove organics that are needed for the cycle to happen. You would chance having inadequate biological filtration if you removed the nutrients before the cycle is finished.
this is my case:
we deal with incidental bacteria all the time in the reef tank, on surfaces that when removed are literally total export of that bacteria such as when a DSB is removed and the live rock still handles all requirements of the prior bioload. Its true nitrifiers were removed, but it was incidental and no cycle resulted. Many people are dosing direct cleaning ammonia as well, not using protein complexes for their feed. and if using the rotting shrimp, they vary so much anyway that skimming or not skimming wont matter to the bacteria getting the varied feed off rotting shrimp but still sustaining in other ways. after all, there was a time 20 yrs ago we cycled tanks by adding only water and waiting two mos, talk about sterility. and somehow every guppy tank on the planet will still cycle in spite of no human additions given a little time.
simply claiming the skimmer can't make things clean enough to really cause a notable delay.
agreed skimmin pre removes helpful proteins before they break down and contribute, but it cannot strip the alternate ammonia sources a plenty that nitrifiers access because a large portion of the feed comes from aggregates between nitrifiers and other bacteria, nitrifiers are rarely if ever found alone the articles show, they are associates and gain feed from this grouping.
take one food source away, they find another, just like algae in many tanks.
we deal with incidental bacteria all the time in the reef tank, on surfaces that when removed are literally total export of that bacteria such as when a DSB is removed and the live rock still handles all requirements of the prior bioload. Its true nitrifiers were removed, but it was incidental and no cycle resulted. Many people are dosing direct cleaning ammonia as well, not using protein complexes for their feed. and if using the rotting shrimp, they vary so much anyway that skimming or not skimming wont matter to the bacteria getting the varied feed off rotting shrimp but still sustaining in other ways. after all, there was a time 20 yrs ago we cycled tanks by adding only water and waiting two mos, talk about sterility. and somehow every guppy tank on the planet will still cycle in spite of no human additions given a little time.
simply claiming the skimmer can't make things clean enough to really cause a notable delay.
agreed skimmin pre removes helpful proteins before they break down and contribute, but it cannot strip the alternate ammonia sources a plenty that nitrifiers access because a large portion of the feed comes from aggregates between nitrifiers and other bacteria, nitrifiers are rarely if ever found alone the articles show, they are associates and gain feed from this grouping.
take one food source away, they find another, just like algae in many tanks.
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Lenny_S
Well-Known Member
I used Prodibio Digest for my cycle and the instructions were to remove filter socks, sponges, and media (carbon, GFO, etc...) and turn off protein skimmers. I wondered why? So I looked into it further...
To keep it kind of short, the bacteria is free floating in the water until it settles and establishes on a surface (rock, glad, sand). All of those things mentioned above that are recommended to be removed will catch the free floating bacteria before it has a chance to establish on a more permanent surface in your system. It will not prevent your tank from cycling, but it will make it take longer.
I also found that you risk ammonia spikes if you cycle your tank with removable media in place because they tend to harbor large strong colonies of bacteria. This suppresses strong colonies from establishing on permanent surfaces (essentially starving them). Once that media is changed, removed, or cleaned (usually after a decent amount of adding livestock) you run a high risk of an ammonia spike and another cycle.
Anyway, that's all from research and not personal experience. I just follow the instructions, so take it for what it's worth I guess.
I disagree with the claims made by the retail additive co but that's nbd, the tanks w still cycle in the end. many cycling threads already have done it in the way described w or wo skimmer and tracking the time frames across cycling threads using skimmers or no skimmers. im claiming that incidental surface area is already aeons established to share between nitrifiers and alt heterotrophs such that we aren't affecting it much other than to give the nitrifiers a good alt feed source.
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Lenny_S
Well-Known Member
Actually the instructions for use was the only part of that from Prodibio. All that other stuff was from a bunch of other pretty reliable sources. But I didn't track all the references so couldn't fully recreate the research.
It's rather moot though if we're only talking about the protein skimmer. If you're cycling a tank you have no livestock in it (hopefully). So it really doesn't matter if it's on or off.
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ClowinRound
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yup no livestock yet, just rock an sand
Lenny_S
Well-Known Member
Go with what makes you feel comfortable then really. I've seen many BRS Tv and other cycling videos that say "you couldn't stop it if you wanted to". You'll be fine either way.
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