Water filtration ro/di

[Nemises1236]

Hey guys I'm hoping this is a good spot for this question. So to get things started I've got some nasty well water, shallow well, dirty and rusty.

My initial ppm after the well pump is around 3800... I do have a point of entry 3 stage sediment/carbon filter (1micron sediment, .5 micron sediment then .1 carbon) that reduces it down to about 1800. Then my softener (I use potassium chloride) takes it to about 1000. I do have a simple 300 gallon point of use ro system but even in my most optimal I can only get it down to about 80 ppm.

If I were to set it up with a 3 stage di that should be able to bring it down to 0 correct? Im most likely just going to deplete the resin faster? I'd be willing to send my water out to be tested but wasn't sure what's the best option.

Please excuse the mess in the basement lol I'm installing a new pressure tank

 

[KStatefan]

I would contact spectrapure or buckeye hydro for their advice

You will burn thru resin very fast at 80 TDS

 

[Amboss72]

Yes, three stages of di resin will take a 80 tds down to zero. As I’m sure you’re well aware you’ll be exhausting di resin at a higher rate than most. I’ve never run any rodi system through a water softener so I can’t comment on that but from your quoted tds reading it looks like it does drop the tds.

 

[COreef8]

Wow that's rough! I think the TDS in my pool is lower than that. I know that some people with well systems or very high city water TDS run multiple sediment filters, carbon blocks, and membranes. If you have 70 TDS coming from the home's RO system then even a dual stage DI resin could take it down to 0 but you're right, you'll spend a lot of money on DI resin.

Depending on your water pressure coming from the home RO system, you could even add a separate reef RODI system after that. If the pressure is too low then you could add a booster pump to get it above the 60-65 PSI minimum. At 70 TDS, the water coming out of that system would be 2 ppm or less before it goes in to the DI resin then that resin would last a long time. That would be my suggestion for the lowest cost solution in the long run.

 

[Nemises1236]

I would contact spectrapure or buckeye hydro for their advice

You will burn thru resin very fast at 80 TDS

The ro system that I have I put together myself, I thought about just buying a commercial system but I'd always rather buy the pieces and put it together myself. I think a better membrane with a higher rejection rate and a bigger booster pump may help.

 

[Nemises1236]

Wow that's rough! I think the TDS in my pool is lower than that. I know that some people with well systems or very high city water TDS run multiple sediment filters, carbon blocks, and membranes. If you have 70 TDS coming from the home's RO system then even a dual stage DI resin could take it down to 0 but you're right, you'll spend a lot of money on DI resin.

Depending on your water pressure coming from the home RO system, you could even add a separate reef RODI system after that. If the pressure is too low then you could add a booster pump to get it above the 60-65 PSI minimum. At 70 TDS, the water coming out of that system would be 2 ppm or less before it goes in to the DI resin then that resin would last a long time. That would be my suggestion for the lowest cost solution in the long run.

I have the water from the 300gal ro system going into a separate holding tank. I was considering installing a second reef only ro system that could feed from the tank then into a second ro/di holding tank. Theoretically the waste water from 70 PPM feed water if brought down to around 2ppm would only be 68 PPM correct?

 

[KStatefan]

I have the water from the 300gal ro system going into a separate holding tank. I was considering installing a second reef only ro system that could feed from the tank then into a second ro/di holding tank. Theoretically the waste water from 70 PPM feed water if brought down to around 2ppm would only be 68 PPM correct?

It would be higher than 70 depending on what the ratio was

You can purchase components from Russ or Spectrapure also

 

[COreef8]

I have the water from the 300gal ro system going into a separate holding tank. I was considering installing a second reef only ro system that could feed from the tank then into a second ro/di holding tank. Theoretically the waste water from 70 PPM feed water if brought down to around 2ppm would only be 68 PPM correct?

That's something I've never really thought about before but my guess is that it would actually be less than 68 ppm since some of the impurities would get captured in the carbon blocks and in the RO membrane itself.

If you're thinking about reusing that waste water I would let the system run for a while beforehand since the waste line will contain come carbon dust in the beginning, but I guess it depends on what you're using it for. I know that after a carbon block is exhausted, it can start dumping captured impurities back into the water and the TDS might actually go up but that would take a while.

 

[Nemises1236]

It would be higher than 70 depending on what the ratio was

You can purchase components from Russ or Spectrapure also

I was looking at a 1:1 waste water system, I don't pay for water but no reason to waste water it if it's not necessary

 

[COreef8]

I was looking at a 1:1 waste water system, I don't pay for water but no reason to waste water it if it's not necessary

Ok I see what you mean. If it had a 1:1 ratio then the TDS coming out of the waste water line would probably be around 140 TDS or maybe slightly less, assuming you started with 70.

 

[Nathan Milender]

Hey guys I'm hoping this is a good spot for this question. So to get things started I've got some nasty well water, shallow well, dirty and rusty.

My initial ppm after the well pump is around 3800... I do have a point of entry 3 stage sediment/carbon filter (1micron sediment, .5 micron sediment then .1 carbon) that reduces it down to about 1800. Then my softener (I use potassium chloride) takes it to about 1000. I do have a simple 300 gallon point of use ro system but even in my most optimal I can only get it down to about 80 ppm.

If I were to set it up with a 3 stage di that should be able to bring it down to 0 correct? Im most likely just going to deplete the resin faster? I'd be willing to send my water out to be tested but wasn't sure what's the best option.

Please excuse the mess in the basement lol I'm installing a new pressure tank


I also live on a well. My iron is not as high as yours but it is present. You may want to speak to a home water specialist. Be careful with the big brand name guys. I run a chlorine tank to which I add bleach once a month to kill the iron bacteria (not harmful but they really gum up plumbing including your filters), then an iron filter (looks like a water softener), then the water softener, then I have the RO/DI with the two RO membrane setups. Unless I forget to turn it off and it runs with the valves closed resin lasts me a very long time as the Ro filters take the salt out very well. From membrane to DI is usually 1 ppm. Also the system protects most of the other items in the house from the rust sludge that accumulates. I got my system for about 1000 dollars from an online DIY company, it is a pain to install and maintain as it is one more thing to do. I did not, but should have installed a whole house mechanical filter as there is small amounts of sand you will need to clean out of things from time to time.

Local competitors wanted 5-6K installed and some quoted systems that just involved an oversized water softener with ongoing maintenance being extra. Treating your water and softening will not lower your TDS, but it may replace it with particles the filters are better at removing. If you are not too afraid of plumbing it is not too bad but it will take time. The new plex stuff is not hard to use.

 

[MTBake]

I would get a hold of Russ @Buckeye Hydro. He really knows his stuff and will get you setup right. He has helped me a few times in the past.

 

[Nemises1236]

Is there a test for that iron bacteria? I've heard of that before and am wondering if I have it also. Shallow wells are notorious for getting that too. Do you have the dual membranes set up sequentially or are they in tandem for a higher gph? I have no problem doing it myself and actually prefer to anyways, I usually learn something cool along the way @Nathan Milender

 

[Nathan Milender]

Is there a test for that iron bacteria? I've heard of that before and am wondering if I have it also. Shallow wells are notorious for getting that too. Do you have the dual membranes set up sequentially or are they in tandem for a higher gph? I have no problem doing it myself and actually prefer to anyways, I usually learn something cool along the way @Nathan Milender

There are some qualitative tests. Open up the back of one your toilets where the water is stored. If there is a rusty slime you have it. If you do, do not freak, you can eat etc. It just gums up in things. Once I started the iron filter with the pre-bleach, it disappeared from all sinks and toilets with no further intervention. Also, the small amount of bleach seems to either be not-noticeable or stripped out by the iron filter.

 

[Nemises1236]

There are some qualitative tests. Open up the back of one your toilets where the water is stored. If there is a rusty slime you have it. If you do, do not freak, you can eat etc. It just gums up in things. Once I started the iron filter with the pre-bleach, it disappeared from all sinks and toilets with no further intervention. Also, the small amount of bleach seems to either be not-noticeable or stripped out by the iron filter.

Ok I'm slime free I do have an over abundance of iron in my water and had contemplated putting in a 4th 20"x4.5" filter with a iron only filter they're just so expensive I wasn't sure if it was worth it.

 

[Nathan Milender]

Ok I'm slime free I do have an over abundance of iron in my water and had contemplated putting in a 4th 20"x4.5" filter with a iron only filter they're just so expensive I wasn't sure if it was worth it.

Mine is larger than that. I am not someone who knows all of the available products but my iron filter is a 5 ft tall water softener with a black sand like material in it. It filters out the iron and then every night back flushes the iron out to restart the next day. No disposable parts. I think it was 4-500 bucks plus installation. I got it from budget water online. https://waterfiltersofamerica.com/

There may be better options, that is just what I used and it seems to work. Also, if you mail those guys a water sample they will recommend appropriate products. To be fair, every water buisness I spoke with was willing to run a water test.

 

[Amboss72]

Is there a test for that iron bacteria? I've heard of that before and am wondering if I have it also. Shallow wells are notorious for getting that too. Do you have the dual membranes set up sequentially or are they in tandem for a higher gph? I have no problem doing it myself and actually prefer to anyways, I usually learn something cool along the way @Nathan Milender

You can have dual membranes set up in a parallel configuration or in a sequential configuration. As I’m sure you’re aware in the parallel configuration you’d have two water line feeds in and two waste water lines out. You’d also need to have high enough psi for this to work. The sequential setup primarily creates far less waste water and pretty much the same amount of product water. BRS tv has a good short video on this.

 

[Nemises1236]

You can have dual membranes set up in a parallel configuration or in a sequential configuration. As I’m sure you’re aware in the parallel configuration you’d have two water line feeds in and two waste water lines out. You’d also need to have high enough psi for this to work. The sequential setup primarily creates far less waste water and pretty much the same amount of product water. BRS tv has a good short video on this.

I'll have to search for that video and check it out!

 

[Amboss72]

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

The ro system that I have I put together myself, I thought about just buying a commercial system but I'd always rather buy the pieces and put it together myself. I think a better membrane with a higher rejection rate and a bigger booster pump may help.

I'd have to take a look at the RO you put together to see if it can be improved. Rejection is low at 92%
I'd also change those 20" x 4.5" filters you're using. Do you have trouble with organics? I'd hope not. If not, why are you running those incredibly tight carbon filters on well water? Similar question on your whole house sediment filter - 1 micron is incredibly tight for that application. The fact that these filters are reducing TDS (this is not their purpose) tells me they are triggering something in solution to come out of solution. From the looks of it I'd expect they are moving ferrous iron to ferric iron. Same thing with the softener. Softeners aren't intended to reduce tds - they contain an ion exchange resin. So TDS in should = TDS out. The fact that TDS out is lower tells me it is forcing something out of solution. Iron or Mn would be my guess... but the lab results will tell us.

The place to start is with a water test: https://www.buckeyehydro.com/drinking-water-test/
I'd not blow this off, especially because you are using this water in your house.
You might be able to get the bacterial test done for free at your county health dept. This should be done at least annually.

Once we know the lab results, nearly any contaminant can be successfully treated.

Russ