We finally tested the Black Box LED... Compare notes? | BRStv Investigates

[Velcro]

I agree you can get higher quality withing the BB subset, but for a higher cost.
I can't find anywhere if Reefbreeder lights are UL listed. I would love for Ryan and @randyBRS to review a "mid grade name brand" light like a reefbreeders or SB since they seem to be the most popular. Something for $200 - $300 with the same coverage as the radions, UL listed (or not!), somewhat controllable. I think that might be a sweet spot for many reefers.

The v2 reefbreeders absolutely have UL power supplies and they are remotely located.

 

[Velcro]

I ran black box over my tank and this video pretty much sums it all up. They grow coral great and I had no issues. I upgraded to the hydra fiftytwo hd and I will never go back to any type of black box. I have a buddy with the sb reef lights and they don't even come close to visual appeal. I buy coral from him and even the coral I buy under the sbreef colors up even more with better growth under the hydras. The black box is a great bang for the buck but if you think they can compare to radions kessil or AI IMHO is false.

There are wayyyyy too many variables to say that your hydras grow better than his sbreef. To assume that is the only factor is silly.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

The black box should actually be credited with the boom in reef keeping we've seen over the last several years. The hobby is accessible to now to millions more people due to price point. Bottom line. It opens the door for many more people tho enjoy our fabulous hobby that could never have done it before. It may sound strange but some won't spend thousands the first time they try a hobby.

Economically , that opens the door for higher coral sales, food, fish, tanks, reef forums and more.

The debate of better is silly, as some folks don't seem to realize other folks may not be able to afford "better" when Reccomending a light to someone they don't know. You may be saying spend two months rent on your first light in the hobby for the tank they got from their uncle. .

I own a what was an $800 MH fixture with a hot spot so huge I think it would set fire to a clam at 30in. Price is no guarantee.


Great video btw.
Fwiw.
I think he says fire a few to many times. I'd like to see data on that vs power strips.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Does anyone have any idea if pulling the lenses on a SB or other BB will broaden the laser beam spread?

It does. Drops intensity by about 30 to 40%. But you can mount it closer.
At 12in the coverage stock with lenses is about 18x 18 or 20x20.

 

[Vincet81]

There are wayyyyy too many variables to say that your hydras grow better than his sbreef. To assume that is the only factor is silly.

I agree about the variables. When I had my black box his corals looked the same when I put them in my tank. Under the hydras there is a large noticeable difference. I'm not a fan boy in any way. I'm just posting facts from my experience. I understand there is a large black box following or sb reef. To each their own. The difference after upgrading my lights was huge.

 

[David Gaskins]

Nice review by Ryan that covered for me what I needed to know to determine my choices for new tank lighting.

I had looked and looked at these online, read reviews on forums concerning great success with coral growth, and have reefing friends that swear by them. As clearly mentioned, these are capable of growing corals, but the actual lighting parameters and associated features fall short of the industry standards. Maybe we need as a hobby a way to test more of these "black box" units before throwing them all into an "unsatisfactory" label. Speaking of reefing friends that use these, one friend has even had a unit catch on fire, and continues to use the products ;(.

But, even after the recommendations for changing out/ removing lenses, and other mods, I still cannot get my head wrapped around using a non UL rated component in my family residence where fire safety is far more important than any budgetary concerns. This is just a line I can or would not cross in order to insure my familes safety.

I appreciated the review for what's it was, a measured test of this component as it is. They did compare to the XR 30 (expensive yes) but you can look at other videos they have produced on other lighting sources (cheaper) and make your own decision? I can also agree with those that say all black boxes aren't created the same, but, this was a review of a $99 light, so it does still hold some validitys. If BRS should have the resources, I would like to see more reviews in future on other lighting choices, including if possible more "black box" models , to help the reefing community with making honest decisions concerning lighting for reef tanks.

Sincerely,

David

 

[ReefingwithO]

What u guys are so one way. U only give away the expensive led lights? Thanks I was really hopeing to score this black box.

This is the best comment ever! I wish this could be stickied.

 

[Velcro]

I agree about the variables. When I had my black box his corals looked the same when I put them in my tank. Under the hydras there is a large noticeable difference. I'm not a fan boy in any way. I'm just posting facts from my experience. I understand there is a large black box following or sb reef. To each their own. The difference after upgrading my lights was huge.

I actually like hydras and think they are worth the money if you want the features. I think radions are overpriced though and look awful in regards to discoballing when you use any significant amount of the white channels. I don't think you are a fanboy at all and have an anecdotal experience from my switch to the photon v2's that shows another side of things. I switched from an 8bulb ATI light which is considered basically foolproof and dead proven for growth and color. After switching to the photons my alk demand went up and colors got better than ever.

 

[CMatlosz]

I think the heart of the discussion surrounding black box vs high end LED fixtures comes down to a cost benefit analysis. Are these BB lights so significantly less effective as to justify the additional investment into Radions or similar technology. For some people the hobby is a high enough priority and their disposal income is such that spending $3200 on 4 Radions to properly light a standard 4x2x2 120 gallon tank is an acceptable decision. However for most of us with normal jobs and families I don't think the additional benefits outweigh the significant cost increase and this review did nothing but cement that idea in my head.

I can't help but feel like the additional money spent on high end LED fixtures would produce better results for the average reefer if applied to better water quality management, upgrading flow, dosage routines, controllers, etc.

That's not to say I would run these cheap BB lights in my home, over my reef. The sweet spot I believe is somewhere in the middle between the two options presented today. I went with DIY puck leds, supplemented by T-5's. For me this was the best compromise between quality of lighting for my animals and overall cost.

 

[Vincet81]

I actually like hydras and think they are worth the money if you want the features. I think radions are overpriced though and look awful in regards to discoballing when you use any significant amount of the white channels. I don't think you are a fanboy at all and have an anecdotal experience from my switch to the photon v2's that shows another side of things. I switched from an 8bulb ATI light which is considered basically foolproof and dead proven for growth and color. After switching to the photons my alk demand went up and colors got better than ever.

I totally agree about the radions they are way over priced for what they do. The worst is they don't have wifi. It's an extra 100 for a controller. I also think the kessil a360 is overpriced for what it does. I'm glad the sb lights work for you. I would love to see sb keep pushing the higher end companies to make better product at a more affordable price point. Happy reefing!! [emoji106]

 

[Ryanbrs]

I don't think they're including the ReefBreeders or SB Reef lights in this video, Ryan does say that he cannot name the name but were all pretty sure its the Mars Aqua. As soon as they took apart the one in the video it looked exactly like what the inside of my Mars Aqua 300 looked like. ReefBreeders and SB Reef Lights while they look like black boxes, I would not personally consider them black boxes, they are definitely alot better and higher quality.

It is my perception that most of the black boxes on ebay, amazon and similar sites are pretty darn similar. Once you get into more refined applications and companies you should expect some level of differences. That said, even though a lot of reefers would like to see it we are probably unable to test all of these lights. This 20-minute video had three people working on it all week long and cost in excess of $5,000 to produce. Something I was excited to do because the community and I personally wanted to know. I think we did a pretty fair job of sharing the data and giving them the same representation as the other lighting videos we have done. That said, we can't spend that kind of time and resources on every last one of these lights. I also don't think it would be fair or respectful to these manufacturers to potentially publicly share negative information about their products and businesses. I think the best avenue to see that type of thing is to ask the individual companies to produce this type of open and honest data on their products and share it with the community. Really their job to share and promote their own value to the reefing community.

In the end, I think it is fair to say we will always spend more time on the methods and related gear the team we would actually use because that's a positive productive message. Supportive of that we try hard to only offer gear we would personally use as well. There are some natural synergies in this approach : )

 

[Crabs McJones]

It is my perception that most of the black boxes on ebay, amazon and similar sites are pretty darn similar. Once you get into more refined applications and companies you should expect some level of differences. That said, even though a lot of reefers would like to see it we are probably unable to test all of these lights. This 20-minute video had three people working on it all week long and cost in excess of $5,000 to produce. Something I was excited to do because the community and I personally wanted to know. I think we did a pretty fair job of sharing the data and giving them the same representation as the other lighting videos we have done. That said, we can't spend that kind of time and resources on every last one of these lights. I also don't think it would be fair or respectful to these manufacturers to potentially publicly share negative information about their products and businesses. I think the best avenue to see that type of thing is to ask the individual companies to produce this type of open and honest data on their products and share it with the community. Really their job to share and promote their own value to the reefing community.

In the end, I think it is fair to say we will always spend more time on the methods and related gear the team we would actually use because that's a positive productive message. Supportive of that we try hard to only offer gear we would personally use as well. There are some natural synergies between this approach : )

Ryan, I agree, thank you for your response! I'm kind of star struck at the moment to get a response from the man, the legend lol

 

[Velcro]

It is my perception that most of the black boxes on ebay, amazon and similar sites are pretty darn similar. Once you get into more refined applications and companies you should expect some level of differences. That said, even though a lot of reefers would like to see it we are probably unable to test all of these lights. This 20-minute video had three people working on it all week long and cost in excess of $5,000 to produce. Something I was excited to do because the community and I personally wanted to know. I think we did a pretty fair job of sharing the data and giving them the same representation as the other lighting videos we have done. That said, we can't spend that kind of time and resources on every last one of these lights. I also don't think it would be fair or respectful to these manufacturers to potentially publicly share negative information about their products and businesses. I think the best avenue to see that type of thing is to ask the individual companies to produce this type of open and honest data on their products and share it with the community. Really their job to share and promote their own value to the reefing community.

In the end, I think it is fair to say we will always spend more time on the methods and related gear the team we would actually use because that's a positive productive message. Supportive of that we try hard to only offer gear we would personally use as well. There are some natural synergies between this approach : )

Well said.

 

[rushbattle]

What u guys are so one way. U only give away the expensive led lights? Thanks I was really hopeing to score this black box.

So quick too, this is definitely the best comment on R2R, sorry @Randy Holmes-Farley, many of your comments would be second!

 

[happyhourhero]

Lets keep in mind that a "better" black box company like SB Reef Lights literally named themselves @#$% Box Reef Lights. They are not trying to be Ecotech. They are trying to open the door to people who cannot afford Radions and the like so they can still grow any coral and produce good results.

 

[RobertP]

I appreciate you fellas doing this. I for one have not been overly impressed by my two SB Reef lights. My 4 bulb T5 is far louder and hotter but it grew my corals better. I would say that now my tank is more stable than it was when running the T5s but SPS just dont do well for me under these lights. I have now switched to running the old T5 along with these two SB Reef lights and this seems to help and coverage is better. I will be trying to go Radion G4Pro when I can.

Now if I can get rid of this danged green hair algae I can go back to buying more SPS frags!!!!

 

[Antics]

I think the video is informative and does its job of dispelling the myth that a lot of people perpetuate about Radions and other high end lighting being no different than black boxes. I know most users on this forum aren't going to argue that $800 and ~$100 lights are identical, but in person I have met numerous people who don't understand or care to differentiate between high end lighting and black boxes.

Deciding if the extra features (and safety in this case) are worth the money is up to the individual and BRS has given a rough comparison for the entry level cheapest option black box compared to one of the highest end premium lights on the market. I think Ryan was pretty clear numerous times that Chinese LEDs will 100% grow and maintain coral. The rest of the video was the counter to why you should consider investing in a better fixture.

 

[rushbattle]

This is how I have my basic 16" SB fixtures setup over a 32x24 area. They are only 7 inches from the waterline, but my mounts won't go any higher. Please ignore bulldozed frags that I ordered after Harvey devastated my tank. The fighting conch needs to get rehomed.

Definitely visually darker after I did the first and compared to the other fixture. Sorry, forgot to get a picture of the comparison. I turned them up to compensate.

 

[Ryanbrs]

In the end this is not one or the other. Just about having a real understanding of the differences between each light and making informed decisions based on your own perception of value.

We will do our best to keep chugging along and presenting the data : )

 

[rushbattle]

Update to my post above, I got out my Apogee QMSW-SS PAR Meter, and I found that I have to turn them all the way up to get to 250 at the surface, around 150 at 6-8" water depth.

Edit: I read @Dana Riddle article comparing my meter to a Li-Cor, I used the wrong setting (electric instead of sunlight). So the PAR is actually a bit higher than what I stated above.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/7/review/