We finally tested the Black Box LED... Compare notes? | BRStv Investigates

[jduong916]

I had the photon 48 V1 supplemented with 4 T5s and it did the job. I never loved the colors though. I recently switched to 2 mitras with 4 T5s. I love the controllability and color. I wished I picked it from the start, well maybe not, because I would have had the older model. That being said, the upper tier black boxes certainly perform and $ for $ they beat out the higher priced lights. They come with the extras (remote controls, dimmable spectrums) at a fraction of the price. But if you want to go 120 MPH and have people admire your ride daily, I'd rather do it in a ferrari than a corvette. Who know? Someone else may enjoy the corvette, at least they'd have enough money left over for those overpriced wavemakers

 

[Zephryn1001]

Not using UL listed components says enough for me. If your light starts a house fire; say goodbye to any hopes of insurance claims.

This quote you just made is a load of horse crap! Even if someone is stupid and is playing with candles you are still covered by insurance. For a fact one of my renters was playing with a candle and burnt the kitchen down and I still got my claim covered by insurance. Just because something doesn't have a certain certification doesn't mean you void insurance. Your quote is just inaccurate .

 

[BoomCorals]

can @Bulk Reef Supply please test SBReef lights? They seem to be different and better than the cheaper black boxes.

 

[Crabs McJones]

This quote you just made is a load of horse crap! Even if someone is stupid and is playing with candles you are still covered by insurance. For a fact one of my renters was playing with a candle and burnt the kitchen down and I still got my claim covered by insurance. Just because something doesn't have a certain certification doesn't mean you void insurance. Your quote is just plain stupidity on your part.

Woah woah woah, let's pump the brakes a little bit. There are better ways to disagree with someone.

 

[enveetie]

I finally measured PAR in my 36x36 lit by 2x sb reef light 16" boxes and 4 T5s. I have to agree on nearly every point with this video. I was so surprised how focused the light and PAR numbers are. The light is extremely intense directly under the light's 16x8 inch footprint, but PAR drops off completely just an inch or two beyond the footprint at nearly any realistic mounting height. I removed all the lenses and tested again, and the PAR numbers are desperately low and inadequate going from 500-600 PAR directly under the light about 12" deep to aout 150ish at 100% both channels.

I'm sps dom, and I've noticed the sps growing along the outside of the footprint of the lights and "reaching" towards the middle of the light. I'll do more of a write up another time.

 

[S-t-r-e-t-c-h]

Just wanted to say thanks to BRS for the measured and honest review, with facts to back everything up.

I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I can't imagine being able to look past the non-UL power supply here. The spectrum and focus issues you can probably work around, but no hobby is worth the potential for a house fire...

 

[rushbattle]

can @Bulk Reef Supply please test SBReef lights? They seem to be different and better than the cheaper black boxes.

I would like to see it too, but @Ryanbrs made it pretty clear that he won't, and shouldn't. He suggested that the manufacturers release data on their own lights, and I agree completely. If he had to review every single competitor he'd go broke and wouldn't ever have time to do anything else!

 

[reeferfoxx]

I must have missed it, was the BB using 60 or 90 deg lenses? Either way, I always recommend the full 120 or 90/120 deg mixed black boxes. My first light was the 90 deg Mars Aqua on a 20 gallon tall. It did great but just like the video, the contrast was really high. The shadows were really dark.

The black box should actually be credited with the boom in reef keeping we've seen over the last several years. The hobby is accessible to now to millions more people due to price point. Bottom line. It opens the door for many more people tho enjoy our fabulous hobby that could never have done it before. It may sound strange but some won't spend thousands the first time they try a hobby.

+1!!
Without the affordable option available to me, I might not have started this hobby. Though, it was always a dream to do so. I will say in the last 3 years, I've seen a big explosion in online retailers as well as LFS's expanding businesses. Not to mention the larger conventions and more innovations. All around everyone is winning even if China is "taking away business".

I think he says fire a few to many times. I'd like to see data on that vs power strips.

+1 HAHA! You are more likely to have a cell phone explode lol. I've been on R2R for just over 2 years now and only once heard of a light catching on fire. If I recall correctly, it was an ATI T5 unit?...

 

[rushbattle]

I finally measured PAR in my 36x36 lit by 2x sb reef light 16" boxes and 4 T5s. I have to agree on nearly every point with this video. I was so surprised how focused the light and PAR numbers are. The light is extremely intense directly under the light's 16x8 inch footprint, but PAR drops off completely just an inch or two beyond the footprint at nearly any realistic mounting height. I removed all the lenses and tested again, and the PAR numbers are desperately low and inadequate going from 500-600 PAR directly under the light about 12" deep to aout 150ish at 100% both channels.

I'm sps dom, and I've noticed the sps growing along the outside of the footprint of the lights and "reaching" towards the middle of the light. I'll do more of a write up another time.

I'm in the exact same boat. I'm looking into other lighting options for a 32x20 coverage area now. I might try to buy some 120 degree lenses just to see if that helps the PAR numbers a bit in the SBs.

 

[BoomCorals]

I would like to see it too, but @Ryanbrs made it pretty clear that he won't, and shouldn't. He suggested that the manufacturers release data on their own lights, and I agree completely. If he had to review every single competitor he'd go broke and wouldn't ever have time to do anything else!

SBReef lights does have their data released on their site. But BRS is the one that opened the box and said they were going to test lighting - not sure why they would then turn around and say no they won't review something that is easily one of the biggest competitors to the others that BRS is testing?

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

I don't think anyone can honestly make the claim that the Radeon isn't a better light than any black box. The standard XR30 is $650 and the Pro is $800. I'd surely hope that they would both be better than a $99 light at those prices. However, $800 is awfully close to what I pay monthly toward my mortgage. When you also consider all the other costs associated with this hobby, for me the math doesn't work out. Especially when there is review after review showing how well these things grow corals. Plus, a bit of modding can eliminate most of the qualms your review mentioned about these units. Removing the optics or mounting it higher will fix the PAR spread, a new power supply is easy to wire in if you know what you're doing or can follow a how-to, and low profile heatsinks can be attached to the back of the light to help with heat dissipation.

It's worth noting that most of these units use 3W LEDs, but they're usually underdriven. The math works out to about 2/3 of their rated power output. That's why the rated power is about 165w, but actual draw is closer to 110w - 120w.

1A x 3V = 3W, 3W * 55 LEDs = 165W*

700mA x 3V = 2W, 2W x 55 = 110W*

* - These are just estimates and back-of-the-envelope calculations based on user reports and accounts, but the math works and the current ranges make sense for standard LED offerings.

While more cooling is usually better with semiconductors, the fact that you're only running these LEDs at 2/3 intensity even at 100% likely reduces the need for seriously robust cooling.

I really respect and appreciate that the BRS team put so much effort into this video, especially considering whose products you sell and that you're not making any money off these black boxes. Thanks for taking the time, this has certainly been a great conversation starter. I know that with all the black box users chiming into this thread, I'll now know about every single possible tip and trick out there to make black box lights even better.

 

[rushbattle]

SBReef lights does have their data released on their site. But BRS is the one that opened the box and said they were going to test lighting - not sure why they would then turn around and say no they won't review something that is easily one of the biggest competitors to the others that BRS is testing?

I think he, and certainly I, mean data dealing with light spread, PAR and spectrum at each point in a grid similar to what BRS does with their light reviews.

 

[PAXpress]

I had a "frag tank" I attempted to setup for a bit and tried a few test corals (gsp, kenya tree, mushroom or two). At first I thought I had them turned up too intense, then maybe too low... After a few months of trying I craigslisted them. I couldn't even get GSP to open under them. Put an AI Hydra 26 above that same tank and boom opens up and is happy for months. I just didnt have good luck, however I have a buddy who has it over his 20g runs only the blues and everything seems to be fine. Gotta say I love my hydras though and wouldnt go back.

 

[Ryanbrs]

SBReef lights does have their data released on their site. But BRS is the one that opened the box and said they were going to test lighting - not sure why they would then turn around and say no they won't review something that is easily one of the biggest competitors to the others that BRS is testing?

Fair vantage point and I understand the concept you are getting at but I feel there are a handful of legit reasons.

One, you just don't see us spending time spreading negativity about other peoples businesses or products. Our focus is almost always on a positive message based on producing results. That's very frequently the products we sell but that's because the products we sell are the ones we use ourselves and what we have had the most success with. We stock a tiny fraction of what our competitors do because they are all vetted for value and results. We stepped outside of that a bit for this video just because the community asked us to and I tried really hard to stick to the data and evaluate them on the same merits as all the other lights.

Outside of that, there are a hundred plus lights out there and only 52 weeks in the year. It only makes sense to focus on giving the most information possible on the gear we represent and reefers are buying from us. It's our goal to provide as much information on this gear as possible and I hope a valuable part of what we offer to the community. I think other retailers and manufacturers have every opportunity to do the same thing and while I understand the desire for the information it's not fair to expect us to have to produce and distribute their value proposition for them. These are intelligent, capable people who can do this for themselves if their customers are asking for it.

To be frank basically everyone I know thinks I am insane for even doing this one and sharing that you absolutely can have success with a $99 light. I can tell you most of the partners we work with have distinctly asked me to not to shine a light on black boxes as a legit option. However, the community asked enough and it is part of the reefing universe so I felt compelled on this one : )

 

[BoomCorals]

Fair vantage point and I understand the concept you are getting at but I feel there are a handful of legit reasons.

One, you just don't see us spending time spreading negativity about other peoples businesses or products. Our focus is almost always on a positive message based on producing results. That's very frequently the products we sell but that's because the products we sell are the ones we use ourselves and what we have had the most success with. We stock a tiny fraction of what our competitors do because they are all vetted for value and results. We stepped outside of that a bit for this video just because the community asked us to and I tried really hard to stick to the data and evaluate them on the same merits as all the other lights.

Outside of that, there are a hundred plus lights out there and only 52 weeks in the year. It only makes sense to focus mostly on giving the most information possible on the gear we represent and reefers are buying from us. It's our goal to provide as much information on this gear as possible and I hope a valuable part of what we offer to the community. I think other retailers and manufacturers have every opportunity to do the same thing and while I understand the desire for the information it's not fair to expect us to have to produce and distribute their value proposition for them. These are intelligent, capable people who can do this for themselves if their customers are asking for it.

To be frank basically everyone I know thinks I was insane for even doing this one and sharing that you absolutely can have success with a $99 light. I can tell you most of the partners we work with have distinctly asked me to not to shine a light on black boxes as a legit option. However, the community asked enough and it is part of the reefing universe so I felt compelled on this one : )

Thanks for the response Ryan. Fair enough!

 

[reeferfoxx]

To be frank basically everyone I know thinks I was insane for even doing this one and sharing that you absolutely can have success with a $99 light. I can tell you most of the partners we work with have distinctly asked me to not to shine a light on black boxes as a legit option.

You did great! In fact, choosing the worst lens option available for this light fixture should appease both the community and partners. I'm not saying that with any disrespect. $100 vs. $800 and the fact they grow coral is enough said. The UL listing is important and should be stressed. Again, you guys did great!

As far as the SB light goes, I think most of us can assume that they A) dont have UL listed power supplies B) have better lenses and spread C) have provide an even more superior spectrum for coral growth. I don't think an SB video is necessary.

 

[rushbattle]

You did great! In fact, choosing the worst lens option available for this light fixture should appease both the community and partners. I'm not saying that with any disrespect. $100 vs. $800 and the fact they grow coral is enough said. The UL listing is important and should be stressed. Again, you guys did great!

As far as the SB light goes, I think most of us can assume that they A) dont have UL listed power supplies B) have better lenses and spread C) have provide an even more superior spectrum for coral growth. I don't think an SB video is necessary.

I agree. Except for the spread issue. I measured it in my own tank and even with two fixtures over a 32x24 area the 90° lenses are too narrow. I ordered 100 120° lenses to try them out.

 

[ThaBeast]

Thank you Ryan for pointing out the non-certified power supply issue. Personally I subscribe to the 'buy once, cry once' theory of purchasing goods. I do understand that hobbyists have different income levels and different commitments but putting yourself and others at risk by suppling cheaply constructed electrical items is unacceptable in my opinion. Ryan made an interesting point about the culture differences in terms of what is acceptable failure rate in the US vs asian countries.

For those referencing photon lights, I would certainly expect a light costing 3.5 times what the referenced typical 'black box' light costs to have an appropriately certified power supply.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I agree. Except for the spread issue. I measured it in my own tank and even with two fixtures over a 32x24 area the 90° lenses are too narrow. I ordered 100 120° lenses to try them out.

Yes, asked earlier in this thread if they used the 60 or 90 deg lenses, without answer. They did show the beaded lens so its up to me to assume. The 120's make the difference. However, I wasnt getting the depth I wanted so I swapped some diodes out for 90 and now sport a 120/90 mixed box.

 

[BradNTx]

Couple things:

1) You talk about efficiency, but did you actually measure the wattage draw from the wall? These "165w" fixtures usually only pull 120-130 watts, so I don't think that's fair compared to the 190w from the radion.

2) These lights thrive at 20-24" above waterline. Some of them are designed better for limiting the blinding aspect. Mine are 20" above the tank and the way they are designed is NOT blinding even when sitting in front of the tank and the light spill isn't any worse than when I was running T5 about 8" above the tank.

The idea is as you said, over buy them and blanket the tank with them mnounted high. Also ideally get one for the "nicer" ones that actually uses properly binned cree diodes... that will fix the spectrum issues.

"black box" is a broad term. I would never consider a mars aqua, but the sbreef lights and reefbreeders are legit. The reefbreeders that I have use UL listed remote power supplies.

I've had a Reefbreeder light over my 80 gallon reef tank for over 2 years now, and love it. Rampable, built in timer, programmable color, and all types of corals have grown well.