We Should Vote With Our Wallets!!!

[4FordFamily]

I was talking about specific aquarium gear that is supposed to be premium, but isn't. Don't be a wise-@zz and try to make this into global economics.

Let’s keep this clean, and refrain from profanity or hidden profanity.

 

[madweazl]

Jebao power heads... the new SW pumps are super small and two SW4s in my 35g cube pushes 2000gph. I have $90 in both pumps. Screw Maxspect and Ecotech. There is no way their plastic crap is worth that much more than chinese plastic crap.

I ran Jebao (RW and PPs) for a couple years before switching over to MP40s and I wouldn't go back to the Jebaos. For you, cost seems to be the biggest factor at this point but after you try a series of products, your opinion may change. For me, the cost of Ecotech's plastic was worth it over the Jebaos I was running previously. Have you used an MP series powerhead or dealt with Ecotech's customer service? There is value in both for some users.

 

[Mattrg02]

You think a 911 GT3 is the most reliable car on the street? I'm not TRYING to make this into a global economics debate, it already is one... whether you want to admit it or not. Some of these high end aquarium companies haven't been in business this long because they overcharge for garbage.

There’s a 911 still around with over 750k miles on it. That whips most American brands :)

My Lexus has had more issues than my Boxster.

Porsche makes an excellent machine. They last a lifetime if you keep them maintained, which can cost a fortune if you don’t learn to do it yourself.

 

[Maddlesrain]

I would say I do vote with my wallet... since I’m spending my own hard-earned money. Haha

 

[Maddlesrain]

Jebao power heads... the new SW pumps are super small and two SW4s in my 35g cube pushes 2000gph. I have $90 in both pumps. Screw Maxspect and Ecotech. There is no way their plastic crap is worth that much more than chinese plastic crap.

My Ecotech “plastic crap” has been running flawlessly since 2012. It’s both aesthetically appealing and pushes water as advertised. In my mind, it’s money well spent! (:

 

[Forsaken77]

Just buy what you want and do what you want to do. I have equipment from companies like Tunze That have been running for over 20 years and I can still get parts if needed. Try that with cheap china made equipment. I buy quality well made equipment that last. I am lucky that I attend MACNA every year and can see this equipment in person and being a Maintenance man for 40 years I can spot junk a mile a way.:) I spend my OWN money on all my equipment so I am extremely picky. One must watch if you see a high profile person in the hobby using a piece of equipment they may have gotten a deal.

Tunze is a premium brand that is actually premium, imo. You hit on a good point.... There's a lot of high profile aquarists that endorse products because they get paid to. I think a bunch of people, in general, follow along with that. If they're saying it's good, it must be.

The other person that said that the Ecotech plastic crap isn't worth the extreme difference between the Chinese plastic crap is correct. While I would never endorse anything Jebao, most of the parts come from the same place. Yea, Ecotech has good customer service because they just got you to spend $600+ on a frigin powerhead that cost them $75 to make (guesstimate). They could send you parts for a lifetime and still have made a profit.

Like you said, it's knowing what's overpriced junk and what's not. That was basically my point (maybe should've titled it differently). That not every premium brand is premium. And voting with your wallets on that purpose. A lot of people don't know how to spot overpriced crap. I was saying that maybe we should set the trend for those that don't know.

 

[4FordFamily]

IMO value is quite subjective. I think one great feature of a forum like this is that we can learn what is or is not worth the money.

I, for one, have had great luck with my Jebao controllable wave makers and return pumps. I’m aware that better products exist but I cannot justify the expense, most of the time.

I have 4 Jebao wave makers total and two return pumps.

 

[Forsaken77]

My Ecotech “plastic crap” has been running flawlessly since 2012. It’s both aesthetically appealing and pushes water as advertised. In my mind, it’s money well spent! :)

Nobody is saying that the MP powerheads aren't good. But is an MP60 fairly priced at over $600? No powerhead should cost that much unless it's gold plated. Their L1 Vectra return pump doesn't even cost that much and is probably more costly to make. They just throw out a high priced figure and see if people will pay it. I honestly think the MP60 should cost what the 40 does, the 40 for what the 10 does, ect... But that's just my opinion.

(And anyone else, please don't make references like I think a Lexus should cost the same as a Ford because they're made by the same company. This is aquarium items only. Just how people think corals with crazy names are overpriced, the same applies to hardware).

I have 2 MP-40's myself and two Maxspect XF-250 Gyres. But I also have an Icecap Gyre and Sicce powerheads that are basically equivalent as far as moving water. I actually like the Sicce better as far as size and water movement, the Ecotech is nice for it's controllability and external wires. I like the Icecap better because it's much easier to maintain than the Maxspects. But that's just me.

I'm not saying people should switch to low cost Chinese gear. I'm just saying there's a lot of products that are way overpriced and maybe folks should start looking into what's truly important and DESERVES the asking price.

Things don't change unless people enact change. And because this is a niche hobby, it should be easier to make change happen. When prices go up and quality goes down, that is not something we should support. Again, this doesn't apply to every premium brand or every product a company makes.

 

[Forsaken77]

Let’s keep this clean, and refrain from profanity or hidden profanity.

My bad. I assumed that if it was ok for daytime tv, that it wasn't a big deal, honestly. My apologies.

 

[Maddlesrain]

Nobody is saying that the MP powerheads aren't good. But is an MP60 fairly priced at over $600? No powerhead should cost that much unless it's gold plated. Their L1 Vectra return pump doesn't even cost that much and is probably more costly to make. They just throw out a high priced figure and see if people will pay it. I honestly think the MP60 should cost what the 40 does, the 40 for what the 10 does, ect... But that's just my opinion.

(And anyone else, please don't make references like I think a Lexus should cost the same as a Ford because they're made by the same company. This is aquarium items only. Just how people think corals with crazy names are overpriced, the same applies to hardware).

I have 2 MP-40's myself and two Maxspect XF-250 Gyres. But I also have an Icecap Gyre and Sicce powerheads that are basically equivalent as far as moving water. I actually like the Sicce better as far as size and water movement, the Ecotech is nice for it's controllability and external wires. I like the Icecap better because it's much easier to maintain than the Maxspects. But that's just me.

I'm not saying people should switch to low cost Chinese gear. I'm just saying there's a lot of products that are way overpriced and maybe folks should start looking into what's truly important and DESERVES the asking price.

Things don't change unless people enact change. And because this is a niche hobby, it should be easier to make change happen. When prices go up and quality goes down, that is not something we should support. Again, this doesn't apply to every premium brand or every product a company makes.

I’m not saying they’re not expensive, but people who get into this hobby understand it’s not necessarily a cheap one. I tend to shop around sales, so I actually got both of my mp10’s for a fraction of the cost. If you shop around, there are often decent deals for higher priced and quality items.

I’m also not disagreeing with the idea that many products are pricey, no matter their quality. I’m a college student, I don’t exactly have money to burn :) haha
Don’t get me wrong, I’d LOVE if everything was a little less spendy.

I just meant to say that if you like the way something works and you want it, you should be able to pay for it. Sometimes I have to save for a few months, sometimes a year, but if I really want a piece of equipment, at the end of the day I don’t feel bad when I do pay that high price for it.

If the products failed or were cheap I’d be mad of course, but I haven’t had that experience with the items I’ve purchased (knocks furiously on wood).

 

[Mattrg02]

Just to clarify, Ford DOESNT make lexus, Lexus makes Lexus under the guidance of Toyota, their parent company :)

While it may not be obvious, at first glance, a product can be superior to a similar product in terms of internal design and parts tolerances. I haven’t opened up a Vortech, but would imagine a robust design and tight tolerances.

You aren’t paying for better plastic, you are paying for the superior design that went into developing the product.

 

[Rakie]

Plus I'm talking about new aquarium gear, not used.

Well that's a personal problem, and a choice.

If you're paying retail for anything, you're a sucker.

You know how many shops get busted for selling things below MAP pricing? About 1/8th of the ones who've been doing it for years. Go beat feet. Talk to people. Only suckers pay retail.

 

[Mattrg02]

Well that's a personal problem, and a choice.

If you're paying retail for anything, you're a sucker.

You know how many shops get busted for selling things below MAP pricing? About 1/8th of the ones who've been doing it for years. Go beat feet. Talk to people. Only suckers pay retail.

Might as well say that poor people are suckers for not having 6 figure jobs. Just because YOU know someone to sell you something under the going rate, doesn’t mean we should ALL be privy to this.

 

[Rakie]

Might as well say that poor people are suckers for not having 6 figure jobs. Just because YOU know someone to sell you something under the going rate, doesn’t mean we should ALL be privy to this.

You make it sound like I'm special.. I'm far from the only, or the first in my area. Almost everyone I know has some type of connection to something in the industry, either by friends, friends of friends, relationships with shops, etc etc.

You would be surprised whats out there.. If you only ask around, and talk to people.

 

[Forsaken77]

You make it sound like I'm special.. I'm far from the only, or the first in my area. Almost everyone I know has some type of connection to something in the industry, either by friends, friends of friends, relationships with shops, etc etc.

You would be surprised whats out there.. If you only ask around, and talk to people.

My brother has a wholesale account. So I don't pay retail on high priced items. But I also don't bother him for every little thing I need. I also don't mind supporting my LFS's because I'm not a greedy person.

And it has nothing to do with if you're paying retail or not. Part of the reason I brought this topic up was because I KNOW what the markups are on products and some are close to 300%! But being you're all connected, you should know that, or just don't care.

 

[Forsaken77]

Just to clarify, Ford DOESNT make lexus, Lexus makes Lexus under the guidance of Toyota, their parent company :)

While it may not be obvious, at first glance, a product can be superior to a similar product in terms of internal design and parts tolerances. I haven’t opened up a Vortech, but would imagine a robust design and tight tolerances.

You aren’t paying for better plastic, you are paying for the superior design that went into developing the product.

Yeah, I was thinking Toyota and wrote Ford because I was gonna say comparing a Lexus to a Ford, but changed my mind. Two thoughts going on at the same time, lol.

 

[jasonrusso]

Well that's a personal problem, and a choice.

If you're paying retail for anything, you're a sucker.

You know how many shops get busted for selling things below MAP pricing? About 1/8th of the ones who've been doing it for years. Go beat feet. Talk to people. Only suckers pay retail.

I'm the sucker that pays retail. I don't have the patience to try work a deal anymore. I figure out what I want and find the cheapest way of buying it. If it is MAP then it is BRS because I get the rewards points.

Also, if something goes wrong, I'm not the guy that spent 30 minutes arguing over pennies and now wants the shop to help him out!

Some people feel that they got a victory by saving 7% on something.

 

[MnFish1]

My brother has a wholesale account. So I don't pay retail on high priced items. But I also don't bother him for every little thing I need. I also don't mind supporting my LFS's because I'm not a greedy person.

And it has nothing to do with if you're paying retail or not. Part of the reason I brought this topic up was because I KNOW what the markups are on products and some are close to 300%! But being you're all connected, you should know that, or just don't care.

There are similar markups on everything. People are voting with their wallets. The ones that have common sense dont buy the newest gadget just because they 'can'. The ones the researched some brands know which have reputations for quality. For you to say 'you should know that or just dont care' implies that you have the answer to every brand and issue people look for in a product. I grant you you probably have some - but you dont have all of the answers... And by the way - Im not sure its exactly 'proper' for you to be using your brothers wholesale account - but maybe it is. Here its not allowed.

 

[Forsaken77]

Maybe some people should read through this short thread from yesterday. Not the OP, but other comments...

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/r...eptune-magnet-fail.344105/page-2#post-4308028

 

[Rakie]

But being you're all connected, you should know that, or just don't care.

Literally everyone is connected. Maybe it's a geographic thing.. But I don't know anybody who doesn't have a hookup somewhere, be it on equipment, or live goods. Hell. Some SHOPS even have a hookup, meaning if you really want X, Y or Z, you go to a certain shop and tell them, because they have better relationships with the wholesalers and get to walk in before everybody else and cherry pick what they want, or have things held for them before the other shops are allowed in.

This is the kinda stuff I'm talking about. You need to know your location. You need to know your shops. You need to know whats out there.

My whole reason for bringing this up is because this is stuff everybody SHOULD be doing. And everybody DOES have access to. They just don't realize it.. But they need to take notice.