What can be dosed with limewater?

[Cory]

Im curious if i can dose potassium, or some sort of magnesium product with my limewater ato?

 

[zoomonster]

Im curious if i can dose potassium, or some sort of magnesium product with my limewater ato?

Good question and not sure what/how you could mix but it is possible. I was in a pinch once and bought a little container of Brightwell Aquatics Kalk+2 locally. The mix contains calcium, magnesium and strontium supposedly in the same proportion as you would find in aragonite at 54%/0.15%/1%.

 

[Scott.h]

I know the seachem reef advantage calcium has magnesium and strontium in it. I've wondered the same thing. Limewater doesn't do much for calcium so I've thought about cocktailing limewater with calcium cloride before.

 

[-Logzor]

I like the idea of adding something else to top-off water, especially if it can potentially replace dosing another chemical via dosing pump.

I do know you can't add any type of buffer to limewater, such as baking soda.

 

[Cory]

Well In Randys article he says this:

"
Dosing Other Additives In Limewater

Aquarists frequently ask if they can mix other additives into their limewater. For some additives, the answer is clearly no. These include magnesium (which precipitates as magnesium hydroxide), calcium (which limits the dissolution of calcium hydroxide), and alkalinity supplements (which will precipitate as calcium carbonate). Strontium supplements can be combined with limewater, although there may be no real need for it. Silicate also can likely be dosed in this manner. Even though I use limewater and silicate supplements, I do not combine them.

Other additives fall into a grey area, where they may or may not be damaged by combination with limewater. These include iodine and iron supplements, some forms of which may not permit mixing without causing problems, and I would not recommend doing so."

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/#17

 

[Scott.h]

I don't pretend to understand all the chemistry but one thing I do know is if Randy says it doesn't work that's all I need to know and I listen.

 

[Cory]

So my questions are can I dose:

Iron gluconate?
Sodium silicate?
Magnesium acetate/gluconate?

 

[zoomonster]

Well the brightwell ingredient list would seem to spell it out. calcium hydroxide, strontium hydroxide, magnesium hydroxide
I'm certainly no chemist but they seem to claim the absence of any chlorides is a benefit of the mixture which I assume includes calcium chloride.

Not the cheapest of solutions but my approach that has worked well with ca, mg and sr is a calcium reactor. That's with Caribsea aragonite media augmented with KZ Zeomag for extra mg. To balance that out a kalkmixer (just BRS bulk calcium hydroxide) has the ATO water flowing through it. With that ca, mg, sr along with higher PH and desired alkalinity are stable. That all went along with my desire for max automation and not using any dosers. Now if I ever get around to an automated water changer I'll be cooking.

 

[Scott.h]

Sounds like dosing magnesium wouldn't hurt but more that one or the other would precipitate.

I guess my question would be why would you need to? It seems like it would be such a small amount you wouldn't regularly add it anyway would you?

 

[Cory]

Sounds like dosing magnesium wouldn't hurt but more that one or the other would precipitate.

I guess my question would be why would you need to? It seems like it would be such a small amount you wouldn't regularly add it anyway would you?

Well for easy dosing and stability is why id want it added to my ato with limewater. Also my magnesium/ potassium decrease pretty predictably. I dont do water changes unless theirs an emergency. So i either dose it manually and have to test the parameters, or add it to a top off and dose it consistantly and not have to test as often.

 

[jason2459]

If its metal, which Mg is, then most all of it will precipitate out at the pH levels created by kalk because of the carbonate that is formed pulling the CO2 from the water. Most metals are not soluble at that pH of just over 12 (12.4 I believe.)

Brightwell (Now owned by kent I think) is wrong.

 

[jason2459]

Well In Randys article he says this:

"
Dosing Other Additives In Limewater

Aquarists frequently ask if they can mix other additives into their limewater. For some additives, the answer is clearly no. These include magnesium (which precipitates as magnesium hydroxide), calcium (which limits the dissolution of calcium hydroxide), and alkalinity supplements (which will precipitate as calcium carbonate). Strontium supplements can be combined with limewater, although there may be no real need for it. Silicate also can likely be dosed in this manner. Even though I use limewater and silicate supplements, I do not combine them.

Other additives fall into a grey area, where they may or may not be damaged by combination with limewater. These include iodine and iron supplements, some forms of which may not permit mixing without causing problems, and I would not recommend doing so."

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/#17

Just saw this post as I was going for the link. This post answers Mg question.

 

[Scott.h]

Well for easy dosing and stability is why id want it added to my ato with limewater. Also my magnesium/ potassium decrease pretty predictably. I dont do water changes unless theirs an emergency. So i either dose it manually and have to test the parameters, or add it to a top off and dose it consistantly and not have to test as often.

ok I guess that makes sense if you aren't doing water changes

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Good question and not sure what/how you could mix but it is possible. I was in a pinch once and bought a little container of Brightwell Aquatics Kalk+2 locally. The mix contains calcium, magnesium and strontium supposedly in the same proportion as you would find in aragonite at 54%/0.15%/1%.

Yes, and that is the most poorly designed product in the reef world (at least that reveals its ingredients). It has hardly any magnesium, and any that is there precipitates out in limewater. It would be better if their products were designed by chemists rather than "Marine Biologists". :(

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Im curious if i can dose potassium, or some sort of magnesium product with my limewater ato?

Potassium yes, magnesium no. :)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I know the seachem reef advantage calcium has magnesium and strontium in it. I've wondered the same thing. Limewater doesn't do much for calcium so I've thought about cocktailing limewater with calcium cloride before.

No, that won't work well. It will depress the solubility of the limewater and you'll get less alkalinity from it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So my questions are can I dose:

Iron gluconate?
Sodium silicate?
Magnesium acetate/gluconate?

Iron gluconate is an uncertain one to me. Might work. Might not, if it precipitates as iron oxide/hydroxide at the high pH. I expect it is an issue of how long you wait. Longer would be worse.
Sodium silicate yes.
Any magnesium compound, no. :)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Well the brightwell ingredient list would seem to spell it out. calcium hydroxide, strontium hydroxide, magnesium hydroxide
I'm certainly no chemist but they seem to claim the absence of any chlorides is a benefit of the mixture which I assume includes calcium chloride.
.

They are just wrong. :D

 

[zoomonster]

Yes, and that is the most poorly designed product in the reef world (at least that reveals its ingredients). It has hardly any magnesium, and any that is there precipitates out in limewater. It would be better if their products were designed by chemists rather than "Marine Biologists". :(

Yeah funny they label it as designed by a "marine scientist".

 

[Cory]

Iron gluconate is an uncertain one to me. Might work. Might not, if it precipitates as iron oxide/hydroxide at the high pH. I expect it is an issue of how long you wait. Longer would be worse.
Sodium silicate yes.
Any magnesium compound, no. :)

Thanks Randy. So if I add some iron gluconate, i need not worry about any negative things, just some good ole "free" gfo? That sounds great then!

So all forms of potassium are safe in calcium hydroxide? I have potassion-p. Not sure what kind of potassium is in it.

Lastly, if i add, sodium silicate, potassium chloride/ sulphate (i presume its that), and iron gluconate all to my calcium hydroxide top off, nothing is going to blow up or get transformed into something dangerous? :D