What is main difference between essential+ and pro?

[Superlightman]

They say the inorganic have the higher ph

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

Which is supposed to be higher pH? The organic one cannot be higher pH unless it is a combination of carbonate or hydroxide alk supplements and an organic alk supplement.

The new Essential plus has the higher ph. I am happy with pro and have had stellar results from it so see no reason to change.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

They say the inorganic have the higher ph

Ok, that part would be as expected.

 

[LiquidFunk]

following

 

[ATI North America]

Hi Randy,

Essentials Pro is Organic alk
Essentials Plus is Inorganic alk

We do not have Plus here in North America, to my knowledge the only difference between Plus and Pro is the alk source.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hi Randy,

Essentials Pro is Organic alk
Essentials Plus is Inorganic alk

We do not have Plus here in North America, to my knowledge the only difference between Plus and Pro is the alk source.

Thanks!

Strange it isn't mentioned at all on the web site.

Is it mentioned on the bottle?

Why did you not make it a one bottle product like All for Reef or Salifert All in One?

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

Thanks!

Strange it isn't mentioned at all on the web site.

Is it mentioned on the bottle?

Why did you not make it a one bottle product like All for Reef or Salifert All in One?

If it was truly organic alk would it go snowy when added to the water? And would it solidify in the cooler temperatures? Because ATI essentials pro alk does both these things.

Also you cannot mix the two parts together or it will just precipitate like any other two part so that is why it's not one bottle

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If it was truly organic alk would it go snowy when added to the water? And would it solidify in the cooler temperatures? Because ATI essentials pro alk does both these things.

Also you cannot mix the two parts together or it will just precipitate like any other two part so that is why it's not one bottle

I’m very suspicious that there is some confusion somewhere, maybe in language translation, and this product does not contain organic alkalinity despite the answer from ATI North America. I may be way off base here, but these are my reasons to be concerned:

No, the snowy effect adding to tank water is usually a high pH indication, forming temporary magnesium hydroxide. An organic agent like acetate or formate won’t do that. Do you have a bottle that you can drop a pH probe into? An organic alk agent won’t typically have a high pH.

precipitation on cooling just means it is near its solubility limit at room temperature. The alk part of an inorganic two part often fits this description.

I’m not understanding exactly what would precipitate on mixing the two parts if the alk part is organic, but I suppose they may have chosen an organic anion that precipitates with calcium or magnesium, such as oxalate. Very odd choice, if true (and again builds my suspicion).

The whole product concept of putting an organic alk agent into a standard two part and giving up the obvious convenience of a one part seems so strange that it spurs my concern that there is a source of confusion.

The fact that the main ATI web site does not mention an organic, does not mention an organic carbon dosing effect, and does not mention the required delay between dosing and alk showing up also seem highly suspicious. And very much a problem if it is an organic.

Essentials pro » ATI-Aquaristik

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

I’m very suspicious that there is some confusion somewhere, maybe in language translation, and this product does not contain organic alkalinity despite the answer from ATI North America. I may be way off base here, but these are my reasons to be concerned:

No, the snowy effect adding to tank water is usually a high pH indication, forming temporary magnesium hydroxide. An organic agent like acetate or formate won’t do that. Do you have a bottle that you can drop a pH probe into? An organic alk agent won’t typically have a high pH.

precipitation on cooling just means it is near its solubility limit at room temperature. The alk part of an inorganic two part often fits this description.

I’m not understanding exactly what would precipitate on mixing the two parts if the alk part is organic, but I suppose they may have chosen an organic anion that precipitates with calcium or magnesium, such as oxalate. Very odd choice, if true (and again builds my suspicion).

The whole product concept of putting an organic alk agent into a standard two part and giving up the obvious convenience of a one part seems so strange that it spurs my concern that there is a source of confusion.

The fact that the main ATI web site does not mention an organic, does not mention an organic carbon dosing effect, and does not mention the required delay between dosing and alk showing up also seem highly suspicious. And very much a problem if it is an organic.

Essentials pro » ATI-Aquaristik

I could use a ph probe in the bottle but I don't need to, If I add 20ml of the alk to the same area of my sump as the PH probe, there is a massive PH spike. My ph jumped from 8.3 to 8.45 for a short time when i did this last night. It's not anything like calcium formate or Acetate.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

All these things considered, the properties and descriptions do not make sense to me. I wrote to ATI Germany to get further info on the product and seeming conflicting descriptions and properties.

 

[ATI North America]

Thanks!

Strange it isn't mentioned at all on the web site.

Is it mentioned on the bottle?

Why did you not make it a one bottle product like All for Reef or Salifert All in One?

Randy I hope you do hear back from Germany (Dr Ben is on vacation this week, so you won't likely hear back. Please use labor @ Atiaquaristik.com as this will go directly to him) and there is certainly a chance we have something incorrect on our end. However I do not know why ATI Germany would create Essentials Plus which uses inorganic alk, specifically because it competes with Tritons product line. Everything on the ATI North America website is written by us, and when we did the Essentials /Triton comparison it created problems between the parent companies and was re-written to the requirements of both companies. Even Triton at this time insisted we called out the Organic vs Inorganic properties (suggesting Organic is inferior). Around this time is when Essentials Plus was announced/released.

Here in North America we do not feel most people care between the two and for most, Organic vs inorganic is only going to cause "what is the difference and which should I choose" questions we do not feel they need too. The whole point of Essentials is to make dosing easier by (traditionally) dosing equal parts of 1 and 2. Most users only have to test alk and determine how much to dose. However I suspect they did not make it a 1 part (if its possible, I am not the chemist) it is to allow the ability to dose unequal parts. We do have some users that dose a higher percentage of one bottle over the other.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy I hope you do hear back from Germany (Dr Ben is on vacation this week, so you won't likely hear back. Please use labor @ Atiaquaristik.com as this will go directly to him) and there is certainly a chance we have something incorrect on our end. However I do not know why ATI Germany would create Essentials Plus which uses inorganic alk, specifically because it competes with Tritons product line. Everything on the ATI North America website is written by us, and when we did the Essentials /Triton comparison it created problems between the parent companies and was re-written to the requirements of both companies. Even Triton at this time insisted we called out the Organic vs Inorganic properties (suggesting Organic is inferior). Around this time is when Essentials Plus was announced/released.

Here in North America we do not feel most people care between the two and for most, Organic vs inorganic is only going to cause "what is the difference and which should I choose" questions we do not feel they need too. The whole point of Essentials is to make dosing easier by (traditionally) dosing equal parts of 1 and 2. Most users only have to test alk and determine how much to dose. However I suspect they did not make it a 1 part (if its possible, I am not the chemist) it is to allow the ability to dose unequal parts. We do have some users that dose a higher percentage of one bottle over the other.

OK, great, thanks!

 

[Superlightman]

All these things considered, the properties and descriptions do not make sense to me. I wrote to ATI Germany to get further info on the product and seeming conflicting descriptions and properties.

Share the answer once you have it, maybe you can ask them on the German Facebook and Oliver would respond

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Share the answer once you have it, maybe you can ask them on the German Facebook and Oliver would respond

Will do. I got a response that their expert, Dr Funk, will reply next week when he is back from vacation.

 

[ATI North America]

Will do. I got a response that their expert, Dr Funk, will reply next week when he is back from vacation.

I saw an email from Dr Ben, have you had a chance to review it?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I saw an email from Dr Ben, have you had a chance to review it?

Yes, just saw it. Thanks for facilitating the exchange.

Here's the critical info for users in the exact words from Ben/ATI, which all makes sense and explains the various folks experiences:

"Essentials pro #1 includes inorganic alkalinity sources and formate.

Formate helps us to get a higher alk concentration in the product, without having a big influence on bacterial activity in the tank.

With the addition of a good portion of inorganic alkalinity sources, Essentials pro acts (for the most part) like a two-part system with a standard bicarbonate/carbonate formulation."

 

[Superlightman]

Yes, just saw it. Thanks for facilitating the exchange.

Here's the critical info for users in the exact words from Ben/ATI, which all makes sense and explains the various folks experiences:

"Essentials pro #1 includes inorganic alkalinity sources and formate.

Formate helps us to get a higher alk concentration in the product, without having a big influence on bacterial activity in the tank.

With the addition of a good portion of inorganic alkalinity sources, Essentials pro acts (for the most part) like a two-part system with a standard bicarbonate/carbonate formulation."

Thanks for the information and for the essential plus? What make it different then?

 

[ATI North America]

Thanks for the information and for the essential plus? What make it different then?

Essentials Pro is organic alkalinity.
Essentials Plus is Inorganic alkalinity.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Essentials Pro is organic alkalinity.
Essentials Plus is Inorganic alkalinity.

But just clarifying based on Ben's statement, Essentials Pro is organic alkalinity (formate) and inorganic alkalinity (bicarbonate and/or carbonate).

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

Seems like a strange thing to do. Which bottle would the formate be in? The alk or calcium bottle. I guess it explains why pro is higher concentration than most other two part systems. It only takes 7ml to raise 100l 1dkh as opposed to 10ml for plus.