What is the point of buying these tiny frags? Can we not?

[John K]

Also note that the economics and other considerations are different if we are talking about chop shopping imported colonies vs captive grown frags.

 

[twentyleagues]

This hobby is expensive, equipment, tanks, upkeep, corals. You can buy cheap equipment sometimes its good and lasts other times not. You can find cheap tanks maybe used but do you want to risk that...maybe. You can do things to cut the cost of upkeep but that affects the things living in your tank the same with cheap equipment. Corals get crazy names and crazier pricing some times (hate this). If a vender offers a frag lets say its this $15/head zoa and they offer it in 1,5,10 head frags I might be able to afford 1 head and have it in my tank but I may not be able to drop $150 on 10 heads. So i would be happy to have the option.

 

[landlubber]

While i can understand the frustration, as a rookie i bought my fair share of frags that were doomed from the start. Now, with just a hair more experience, i leave those tiny fresh cut frags at the LFS and return a month or 2 later to find them with better color, growth and often the price is unchanged or priced down to sell them.
Coral pricing rolls with the times but fortunately we control the market. Unsold coral does a vender no favors. Its overcoming the urge to take home the whole farm that was my issue haha.

 

[tedfisher496]

I was at an LFS recently. They had several frags of a particular zoas selling for $15 per head. There were options from 1 to 8 heads on a frag. Some folks prefer the 1-3 head frags. Others like the 5-8 head frags. Good to have options.

i think theirs one good reason for small frags we all see. maximize the profit from a colony. unfortunate money drives everything.

 

[tedfisher496]

I have a 25 gallon so i always go for small frags.

 

[threebuoys]

This hobby is expensive, equipment, tanks, upkeep, corals. You can buy cheap equipment sometimes its good and lasts other times not. You can find cheap tanks maybe used but do you want to risk that...maybe. You can do things to cut the cost of upkeep but that affects the things living in your tank the same with cheap equipment. Corals get crazy names and crazier pricing some times (hate this). If a vender offers a frag lets say its this $15/head zoa and they offer it in 1,5,10 head frags I might be able to afford 1 head and have it in my tank but I may not be able to drop $150 on 10 heads. So i would be happy to have the option.

I agree and understand, to a point. Using the 1 head versus 10 heads example, Is the 1 head frag just as likely to be successful as a 10 head beginning to a colony? And, if that zoa is a good grower, why wouldn't the vendor sell 10 heads for say $4 or $5 each or maybe set a minimum $25 per frag, 10 heads minimum? Not that my numbers here are recommendations as much as suggestions for how to approach pricing. I regularly see online vendors with a 5 or 10 head frag selling for the same price as a single head frag with nothing other than fancy names and maybe colors to differentiate. Did that vendor make his own frags? Is one easier to grow than another? What evidence exists that shows one is more popular that another? Is that evidence based on name or colors or? Every frag is an individual creation and no catalog of reasonableness exists.

I have, on several occasions, purchased frags on-line that I felt were reasonably priced. At the same time, on the same page, I saw similar corals advertised for multiples on the one I purchased. Was that gimmick by the seller to peak my interest? Was it a mistake by the vendor? Or.....?

Part of my problem is an unwillingness to pay more than $XXX for a mail-order (or LFS for that matter) coral or $ZZZ for a mail order fish, as a matter of principle, as a question of value, and knowing that the guarantee for either's survival is very limited. Others with higher thresholds probably don't understand my concerns.

 

[twentyleagues]

I agree and understand, to a point. Using the 1 head versus 10 heads example, Is the 1 head frag just as likely to be successful as a 10 head beginning to a colony? And, if that zoa is a good grower, why wouldn't the vendor sell 10 heads for say $4 or $5 each or maybe set a minimum $25 per frag, 10 heads minimum? Not that my numbers here are recommendations as much as suggestions for how to approach pricing. I regularly see online vendors with a 5 or 10 head frag selling for the same price as a single head frag with nothing other than fancy names and maybe colors to differentiate. Did that vendor make his own frags? Is one easier to grow than another? What evidence exists that shows one is more popular that another? Is that evidence based on name or colors or? Every frag is an individual creation and no catalog of reasonableness exists.

I have, on several occasions, purchased frags on-line that I felt were reasonably priced. At the same time, on the same page, I saw similar corals advertised for multiples on the one I purchased. Was that gimmick by the seller to peak my interest? Was it a mistake by the vendor? Or.....?

Part of my problem is an unwillingness to pay more than $XXX for a mail-order (or LFS for that matter) coral or $ZZZ for a mail order fish, as a matter of principle, as a question of value, and knowing that the guarantee for either's survival is very limited. Others with higher thresholds probably don't understand my concerns.

If its an easy to grow coral then the price should reflect that. As for the 1 head vs 10 head maybe there is a better chance for the 10 head because you've got 9 more if something happens to 1 head. But if I were "broke"(I wouldnt be buying coral) or had a very limited cash flow to input, the 1 head may be my only option to get that coral I think is cool. Thanks to the vender for offering it.

 

[mboley]

Some stores get away with it because people will pay the $. If enough people stopped buying in the area, they would reduce their prices or make bigger frags. It is already happening across the industry as a whole right now. Vendors are seeing a cut in profit, and are trying to increase that through more sales events. The last few years were a boom for the industry, but the market correction is taking place right now, imo. My suggestion is to not fall into the coral branding game. Coral are not invented, nature made them already. Someone’s “Rainbow Holy Grail Master Dragon Soul” is just someone else's Euphyllia glabrescens, etc.

Since I'm about to stock my new tank I hope you're right but I'm not seeing evidence of that. I'm in San Diego and we have AquaSD and a great LFS , Aquatic Warehouse. I'm resigned that I'm going to pay $100-$200 for larger pieces and I'll mix in some frags. The AquaSD auction pieces are small but without shipping costs I can't pass them up, larger pieces there are ridiculas.

 

[Reefer Matt]

Since I'm about to stock my new tank I hope you're right but I'm not seeing evidence of that. I'm in San Diego and we have AquaSD and a great LFS , Aquatic Warehouse. I'm resigned that I'm going to pay $100-$200 for larger pieces and I mix in some frags. The AquaSD auction pieces are small but without shipping costs I can't pass them up, larger pieces there are rificulas.

I also recommend seeking out Reefers in your area and local trade shows also. Just by participating in your local reefing community, you’ll eventually find that getting coral at a good price is the “easy” part. Making friends in reefing goes a long way, and the money is usually secondary to good company.

 

[Ernie Mccracken]

Imagine if this trend catches on with fish. Here's your $75 tang:

 

[threebuoys]

I also recommend seeking out Reefers in your area and local trade shows also. Just by participating in your local reefing community, you’ll eventually find that getting coral at a good price is the “easy” part. Making friends in reefing goes a long way, and the money is usually secondary to good company.

This is an excellent recommendation. For me, unfortunately, the nearest saltwater dealer is 120 miles away and no user groups nearby. So, I've done mostly on-line shopping. But, the best quality, size and value for the money was found at one of the shops 120 miles away!

 

[Troylee]

Prices do get stupid.

That said, if I’m going to buy a coral and for whatever reasons am not confident it will thrive…..
-Id rather kill a tiny frag than a larger one or a whole colony.
-If on the other hand I am up to the task and able to keep it alive it will grow out.

To me bigger =‘s more waste of life if something goes wrong.
And
Smaller =‘s I need to be patient. (This is the wrong hobby if that’s a problem)

But yea, if they cost the same I’ll always be tempted by the bigger one despite everything I said above.

I’d disagree! If you have a colony it’s easier to save if something goes south vs a tiny frag by cutting the good pieces off and still having large frags.

 

[KandAReefs]

I was out of town over the weekend, so I decided to check out the local reef stores in the area to kill an afternoon. With the exception of the usual imported stuff and a few softies, 99% of corals for sale were tiny, tiny frags. So many pencil erasers or like 2 zoa's on a plug lol. Literally thousands upon thousands of these tiny frags of frags.

Why are we buying these, boyos? The supply chain is FULL of corals for the most part, far more than the market demands. It's not like the old days where only one guy could figure out how to grow this specific SPS and had the entire supply in his home display tank.

The reason unfortunately is its because people keep buying them. 20 years ago people in clubs would share corals now that would pass for colonies on today's market. But with the naming and branding on the " must have" corals everyone is tring to make a buck on everything.

 

[ryanjohn1]

If by larger you mean been a frag longer then yes. I prefer to buy encrusted frags or at least be able to tell there is some growth. Fresh cut frags are usually a no go for me. I dont think cutting a .5-1" frag versus a 3" frag gives the frag much more of a chance if everything else is equal. if that 3" is fresh cut and that 1" has base growth I'll take the 1".

100% always get one that’s encrusted couldn’t agree more. However. I prefer if it’s larger than.5-1 in. I feel they have better success

 

[jerrod]

I think small frags for certain corals has a place. For SPS I think small frags are necessary to ensure a tank is ready as starter corals. Granted the price should reflect at the size of the frag. Both tanks ive had my starter corals were broken pieces 1/2"-1" long from the bottom of my LFS tanks at 5-20 dollars a pop. Some have grown into good sized colonies a few didn't last 2 weeks.

 

[PeterErc]

A mother colony today is a frag of yesteryear

A frag of today is a piece that broke off a colony and got flushed down the toilet while fragging from yesteryear