What is the point of buying these tiny frags? Can we not?

[Ernie Mccracken]

I was out of town over the weekend, so I decided to check out the local reef stores in the area to kill an afternoon. With the exception of the usual imported stuff and a few softies, 99% of corals for sale were tiny, tiny frags. So many pencil erasers or like 2 zoa's on a plug lol. Literally thousands upon thousands of these tiny frags of frags.

Why are we buying these, boyos? The supply chain is FULL of corals for the most part, far more than the market demands. It's not like the old days where only one guy could figure out how to grow this specific SPS and had the entire supply in his home display tank.

 

[slingfox]

I was at an LFS recently. They had several frags of a particular zoas selling for $15 per head. There were options from 1 to 8 heads on a frag. Some folks prefer the 1-3 head frags. Others like the 5-8 head frags. Good to have options.

 

[ryanjohn1]

I also absolutely hate the tiny size of the frag market. But they do grow out. As long as they survive. IMO larger frag better chance of survival. However I’ve got zero science to base that on.

 

[Doctorgori]

smaller = more … makes sense

but yeah, it’s getting a lil silly ….got one last time that was maybe 3/8”

 

[twentyleagues]

I also absolutely hate the tiny size of the frag market. But they do grow out. As long as they survive. IMO larger frag better chance of survival. However I’ve got zero science to base that on.

If by larger you mean been a frag longer then yes. I prefer to buy encrusted frags or at least be able to tell there is some growth. Fresh cut frags are usually a no go for me. I dont think cutting a .5-1" frag versus a 3" frag gives the frag much more of a chance if everything else is equal. if that 3" is fresh cut and that 1" has base growth I'll take the 1".

 

[Waters]

Well....they are there because the sellers make more money. We are buying them because the larger colonies are ridiculously expensive

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I'm just so happy that coral prices are coming down now.

I don't care that the frag is small, I like seeing my corals grow out.

Being fresh cut is a little annoying, but hey, at least they willing to take $20 nowadays, instead of asking $100 like the past 3 years for the same tiny fresh cut frag.

 

[Sleeping Giant]

coral frags are ridiculous, nothing but a scam. you buy a small head , it's not strong enough to support itself and it dies, then you buy more and more and more....the coral vendors know this which is why they do it...if we demand better and refused to buy the garbage tiny frag then they will have to sell larger ones for a better price.
It's absolutely stupid and the costs of the frags by vendors shows me that they don't have any care about stealing your money. so stop trying to kiss their buts on here, they could give 2 craps about you as long as you keep on buying the tiny frags.

 

[Ernie Mccracken]

coral frags are ridiculous, nothing but a scam. you buy a small head , it's not strong enough to support itself and it dies, then you buy more and more and more....the coral vendors know this which is why they do it...if we demand better and refused to buy the garbage tiny frag then they will have to sell larger ones for a better price.

What percentage of micro frags are ever grown out into full mother colonies? I'm talking 5-6 years of uninterrupted growth. Has to be <1%.

 

[Sleeping Giant]

What percentage of micro frags are ever grown out into full mother colonies? I'm talking 5-6 years of uninterrupted growth. Has to be <1%.

exactly

 

[Labridaedicted]

What percentage of micro frags are ever grown out into full mother colonies? I'm talking 5-6 years of uninterrupted growth. Has to be <1%.

I'd say there's a much higher success rate than that. My personal success rate is much much higher than that. Maybe closer to the inverse *shrugs*

Smaller frags grow to where they're placed. They adapt growth form to the flow and light provided. In the end it makes a healthier colony. If you just slap a big colony in there, it makes it grow all wonky in alot of situations and look unnatural.

In response to the initial question, the small frags are a factor of a number of things. 1 is supply and demand. People largely want smaller frags from an affordability standpoint. If there's a 1% survival rate as you speculated above, there's little incentive to spend big bucks on a bigger piece that will have similar survivability (given the cause of death is *very rarely* due to the size of the frag). The other is availability. You could easily get big chunks of generic morphs of these species but if you want proven strains with good color, well, those are in higher demand and lower availability so getting bigger pieces tends to be difficult. Money also plays in a factor here (as it does everywhere). A store can turn over a handful of cheap small frags much faster than they can a colony of the same price as those cumulative frags (having managed an LFS for several years right out of college, I know this for a fact).

If you request your store to bring in bigger pieces, they typically will, but don't be surprised if they're maricultured or wild pieces which have a lower success rate and often change appearance dramatically in captive conditions.

 

[Labridaedicted]

I'd also add that there are a handful of vendors I use that are sponsors here that give huge frags. That's part of why they get my business. So I don't disagree with y'all's sentiments, I just get why some vendors do the small frags.

 

[Sleeping Giant]

 

[Reefer Matt]

Some stores get away with it because people will pay the $. If enough people stopped buying in the area, they would reduce their prices or make bigger frags. It is already happening across the industry as a whole right now. Vendors are seeing a cut in profit, and are trying to increase that through more sales events. The last few years were a boom for the industry, but the market correction is taking place right now, imo. My suggestion is to not fall into the coral branding game. Coral are not invented, nature made them already. Someone’s “Rainbow Holy Grail Master Dragon Soul” is just someone else's Euphyllia glabrescens, etc.

 

[Labridaedicted]

The naming thing has always been mind bending to me. Like everyone who has a morph similar to a famous strain just calls it that. Without the pedigree, it's not worth paying the premium.

Like @Reefer Matt said above, market will correct itself. Things got spicy for like 5 years or so. When I started, there were very few named morphs, particularly with the Euphyllias. We used to just give away frogspawn, hammers, and such because we just had generic, hardy, fast growing strains. Miss those days.

Use to get and give 2+ inch frags of sticks as well back then.

We'll probably never get back to that point, but bigger frags would be nice to see more regularly.

 

[Labridaedicted]

I also largely havent been seeing pieces quite as small as what the OP describes. I think the only ones that small I've seen is a vivid insanity right when they started popping up. (And maybe a few of those 800 dollar nubs at reefapalooza) so if they're actually as small as what op described at the LFSs out your way, that is actually pretty crazy.

My statements earlier were based on more traditional 1 inch-ish frags

 

[robanister]

These tiny frags are done to make it more affordable for people that dont want to spend a bunch of money to have a piece of something. I agree prices have gotten out of hand of these small frags.

 

[threebuoys]

I was at an LFS recently. They had several frags of a particular zoas selling for $15 per head. There were options from 1 to 8 heads on a frag. Some folks prefer the 1-3 head frags. Others like the 5-8 head frags. Good to have options.

Why would any buyer of zoas prefer a frag with 1 head over a frag with 10 or 20 heads? Ohh, because the vendor charges $15 per head? As long as buyers are willing to purchase one head frags, why would the seller ever do differently? I'm glad that buyers are satisfied with the time it takes for a single head frag to multiply to the point the zoa can be seen without a magnifying glass. Wait a minute, give it an exclusive name and explain how difficult that particular variety is to grow and up the price to $30 per head.

I'm all for free enterprise. That does not mean I believe the pricing models, particularly those followed by on- line vendors, are reasonable. Take a look at any of the regular advertisers on R2R. The number of corals offered for hundreds or even thousands of dollars is astounding. If these vendors regularly sell these corals at advertised prices, they and their employees must all live in multi-million-dollar homes. Or are many of the corals offered for sale not in inventory in the first place, but only advertised to give the appearance of huge value to lower priced items?

Perhaps I'm too cynical. Perhaps the "cost" of merchandise to the vendors is exorbitant, perhaps all of the money is flowing straight to the coral collectors in Australia, SE Asia, Indonesia. I'm not sure we will ever know exactly what reality is.

 

[Reefer Matt]

Perhaps I'm too cynical. Perhaps the "cost" of merchandise to the vendors is exorbitant, perhaps all of the money is flowing straight to the coral collectors in Australia, SE Asia, Indonesia. I'm not sure we will ever know exactly what reality is.

Here is a perspective from a seller’s point of view as well. Some of it is to make a profit, some is to pay for overhead. But every coral vendor has livestock loss too. They have piles of coral skeletons that add up to lost revenue, so they charge more on the inventory they have left to compensate.“Basement Vendors” can sell cheaper because they have no store, no employees, and generally enjoy all the benefits of a business without many risks. It’s a delicate balance for sure.

 

[John K]

Prices do get stupid.

That said, if I’m going to buy a coral and for whatever reasons am not confident it will thrive…..
-Id rather kill a tiny frag than a larger one or a whole colony.
-If on the other hand I am up to the task and able to keep it alive it will grow out.

To me bigger =‘s more waste of life if something goes wrong.
And
Smaller =‘s I need to be patient. (This is the wrong hobby if that’s a problem)

But yea, if they cost the same I’ll always be tempted by the bigger one despite everything I said above.