What LED for Actinic Supplement! Halide and LED Married together!

[A. grandis]

I can come here and learn what I need without posting and try help others nor put my observations for you.
I just don't think such actions can help anyone.
You guys want me to go away just tell me. Seriously!
Grandis.

 

[reefndude]

I started using halides in November of 17. I went with 2 400 w radiums, with 2 t5 retrofits, and two rb led bars. Halides run 5 hours a day. T5's and leds are there to basically view the tank while halides are down. The leds run an hour longer than t5 just so I can see the corals glow in the dark

 

[Centerline]

I run XHOs on a Spectra and they add about the same amount of par as a T5. Its a nice look along with a 14k MH though I do so with Radiums at 20k. I know there are several other high par strips out there but from my experience the XHOs add a nice pop that isn't washed out by the MHs. You know another bulb you may want to take a look at is the Giesemann MegaChrome "Krystal". Its a 17500 k bulb that is interestingly BRIGHT with hints of blue. If you have seen a Radium run overdriven where its more white than expected you get the picture - but still less blue.

 

[Centerline]

I have taken PAR readings from a 24" XHO Reefbrite and the par at 6" was less than 50. The distribution was pretty even over the 24". This was a few years ago and perhaps the models have changed. It is not a lot of PAR from what I measured... not nothing, though, either.

I think some of the Par meters have a little trouble with the blue leds. My Apex par meter certainly sucks at it lol. I have a Seneye that shows significantly more par from the XHOs and a SQ-520 on the way. Would it be useful for me to take some measurements with the Seneye?

 

[Centerline]

Well, like I've said, depending on the halide you will have the T5s washed out too because they are 400w, but still much better than any LEDs in terms of quality of light to supplement the corals needs, that's for sure! The ReefBrite strip, in your case, will offer blue light. The ATI Blue Plus will give you additional PAR and will give you that nice blue too. The spectrum from the Blue Plus is "richer" than the spectrum from the ReefBrites. I mean... you can have Blue Plus bulbs running and they will actually grow corals really well compared to those RB LEDs. That's why most coral growers choose T5s.
What you need to understand is that to overcome your 14K 400w halides in terms of additional blue to help the visual appearance you will need such number of the tubes. How many tubes? That will depend on your personal preference for the spectrum you want to achieve, that is the balance between the 14K halide and the Blue Plus tubes to your eyes. Only you can define. The higher wattage the halide is the more tubes you will need to overcome the "white".
Too many additional lights will be totally unnecessary. That's why I would try like 2 Blue Plus bulbs and if you're not happy with that you should change the one you have for a 20K. with 2 T5 tubes. You could also add 4 Blue Plus to the halides. I wouldn't add more than 4 tubes. That's plenty lights already!! LOL!
So... you need to know how much blue you want to add.
Play with the photoperiod is very important when adding bulbs like that, specially having the 400W running already. That's common sense.
Can we use a Spectra with 2 X 250W radiums and 4 T5s over a 75gal? Of course yes! Photoperiod will have to be adjusted to avoid photo inhibition. It's a matter of getting the best out of the bulbs and avoiding unnecessary waste/damage.

My personal opinion!

Grandis.

You know another alternative would be some ATI true actinics to go with the 14k bulbs - peaking at 425ish with that weird little spike at 440ish. The don't produce as much par as the blue plus but they do add a heck of a lot of pop and useful pur for coloration and overall vitality. Maybe help keep the blue down a little.

 

[Charterreefer]

If looks are your concern, then no matter what you add, you will not likely see any difference when the Halide is on. They can be fine for some blacklight (LEDs) or dusk/dawn. You will need to choose a bulb that is the color that you like. If 20K radium is too blue, then let us know which ballast that you have (electronic or magnetic) and you could get some suggestions. Gisemann as a 17.5k that is bluer than 14K, but not as much as Radium. 14K or 20k Hamilton have different looks depending on the ballast.

If you chief concern is PAR, then go with a pair of 250W Halides and forgo the LEDs or T5s. Compared to a 400W Halide, a 4xT5 setup or some blue LEDs are like throwing a baseball at a school bus. 400W Halide and 100W of T5s is roughly the same 500W for 2x 250w... bulbs are similar to replace.

If coloration is your concern, then I would get a 20K MH and use 6500K (or some other daylight) T5 bulbs for the PAR and spectrum that will bring out lots of colors.

I am in the process of building a 175 SPS reef. The tank is 36x36x31deep. The main light is a 400 watt ushio 14k in a Cozumel sun reflector. I would like to add some supplemental light to assist in par and coloration of sps. I’m not sure what do do for LEDs and there does not seem to be much on the DIY LED front these days. I plan on framing the Halide fixture with a single row of leds. (22x22 square) I would like to do a combination of Royal Blue (450nm), Hyper violet (420nm), violet (410nm), and true violet (400nm).

What ratios should I run to supplement the 400 14k halide?


I am thinking 7RB, 3HV, 3V, 2TV on each side of the reflector. That is based loosely off the Radion G4 Pro leds

If you want penetration (because of your deep tank) and a more blue color than what you are currently using (but not as much as the 20,000K Radiums) I would suggest checking out the Gisemann as a 17.5k. It would offer you the color that it sounds like you are after without the extra expense of all the new hardware for supplemental lighting although, the price is ~$129.00 per bulb for 400 Watt.

 

[Biglurr54]

Wow. .... now that this thread is back on track ... I ran a 250w radium on hqi setting and wasn't a fan. It was too blue. I don't mind the extra equipment as it will allow for dusk dawn and moon light. I also want to have the pop and ability to tune the color.

 

[jda]

I know that PAR meters have issues with blues - there is no doubt in my mind. It shows it in their charts. I know that they significantly under-measure actinic T5s and MH bulbs as well. However, if the XHOs spectrum charts are correct, and they should be, then they are about the same as Actinic T5s and the PAR is still pretty low even on this scale.

I would not really quibble over this unless you NEED them for energy, which most probably do not. ...probably more of a discussion point than an actual point.

I am totally open to the possibility that this a measuring issues, but still 24 diodes spread out that far and usually not run at full-strength is not a lot of light in any case.

 

[Centerline]

If you want penetration (because of your deep tank) and a more blue color than what you are currently using (but not as much as the 20,000K Radiums) I would suggest checking out the Gisemann as a 17.5k. It would offer you the color that it sounds like you are after without the extra expense of all the new hardware for supplemental lighting although, the price is ~$129.00 per bulb for 400 Watt.

And they are very bright!

 

[Centerline]

I know that PAR meters have issues with blues - there is no doubt in my mind. It shows it in their charts. I know that they significantly under-measure actinic T5s and MH bulbs as well. However, if the XHOs spectrum charts are correct, and they should be, then they are about the same as Actinic T5s and the PAR is still pretty low even on this scale.

I would not really quibble over this unless you NEED them for energy, which most probably do not. ...probably more of a discussion point than an actual point.

I am totally open to the possibility that this a measuring issues, but still 24 diodes spread out that far and usually not run at full-strength is not a lot of light in any case.

Ill test a 48" XHO in the morning with my Seneye and post the results. Ill assume 18" from the water as one might mount the MH.

I also think I may have a newish MegaChrome Krystal (17.5 k) in a box. If so Ill take a picture of that and a Radium to contrast the difference.

 

[hart24601]

The fact that you want to argue is not of an intrest. We're here to help newcomers with lighting and not post blanket statements with your hate for led lighting @A. grandis. You made a comment and I just wanted to see if you could back it up. No worries though, happy reefing.

+1 seems like every thread I see his led hatred. Gets old.

 

[Littlebit]

Keep your charts and graphics on your coffee tables and watch your LED flashlights over your tanks, please.
Everyone here sees the subject differently and should be allowed to post their opinions.
That's all! There is no hate. I actually think some of you guys hate me and the halides/T5s, to tell the truth.
Many others have posted worse comments than I do against the LED wagon and you guys didn't go after them.
It's probably my signature. LOL!
Every time I see a LED fixture for aquariums I can't understand what the deal is. Really?!?
Now... go play with the lightning feature! LOL!

Grandis.

I actually agree that T5/MH combo is best. If I had a choice that is what I would choose, but I can't because of the heat here in Houston, in the summer. Wife won't allow them. grr
But you are being immature and rude. just my .02

P.S. Also, I have seen T5/LED combo's that you would not be able to tell the difference if you did not look under the hood. And T5's alone? forget it... too flat. Did that for years.

 

[Littlebit]

You know what?
If there are people that want me go go from this forum, please post, so I know who you are.
Based on that I can actually go away for good! What do you think? Is that fair?
Call your friends!
Let's see who will post!
Grandis.

No, I want you to stay. I agree with what you say, just not the way you are saying it. lol

Everyone's opinion is worth hearing. The thing is, some people don't like hearing opposite opinions. (general accusation here, not specific person)
I always give advise on all options when I can, even when I don't agree with them. Let the person seeking advise make the ultimate choice.

 

[Littlebit]

I run XHOs on a Spectra and they add about the same amount of par as a T5. Its a nice look along with a 14k MH though I do so with Radiums at 20k. I know there are several other high par strips out there but from my experience the XHOs add a nice pop that isn't washed out by the MHs. You know another bulb you may want to take a look at is the Giesemann MegaChrome "Krystal". Its a 17500 k bulb that is interestingly BRIGHT with hints of blue. If you have seen a Radium run overdriven where its more white than expected you get the picture - but still less blue.

What he said. ^^^

100% agree

 

[Abhishek]

Well you dont need actinic supplementation to color up your acroporas. @Centerline convinced me to use Geissemann 17.5K 250 watt crystal and i convinced @Charterreefer to do the same.

Here are some pics , OP can be the judge :-

Regards,
Abhishek

 

[reefndude]

Those look great!!

 

[Finhead]

Well you dont need actinic supplementation to color up your acroporas. @Centerline convinced me to use Geissemann 17.5K 250 watt crystal and i convinced @Charterreefer to do the same.

Here are some pics , OP can be the judge :-

Regards,
Abhishek

So this is only 17.5K Halide no T5 or LED? What the light cycle on those? Very nice BTW.

 

[Biglurr54]

Beautiful pieces. They have amazing color. I lose all color when sps goes under my 150watt halide with led supplements.

 

[Abhishek]

So this is only 17.5K Halide no T5 or LED? What the light cycle on those? Very nice BTW.

No supplements ! Just 10 hours of halide lights from 10 am - 8 pm . Honestly, I don't believe you need led supplements unless you wanna see extreme fluroscence at night. I attached 2 reefbrite strips as wife likes to see fluroscence at night but they come on at 8 pm and runs for only 2 hours .

But am just a newbie . So please take my experience with a pinch of salt . Am just a kid trying to learn, grow an acropora only tank and enjoy reefing

Regards,
Abhishek

 

[Finhead]

No supplements ! Just 10 hours of halide lights from 10 am - 8 pm . Honestly, I don't believe you need led supplements unless you wanna see extreme fluroscence at night. I attached 2 reefbrite strips as wife likes to see fluroscence at night but they come on at 8 pm and runs for only 2 hours .

But am just a newbie . So please take my experience with a pinch of salt . Am just a kid trying to learn, grow an acropora only tank and enjoy reefing

Regards,
Abhishek

Doesn't matter if your a newbie , obviuosly working for you. I was more thinking T5 supplements. Thanks for the info