What will happen when our pets become critically endangered?

[biophilia]

Nope, not suffering. The earth can handle it. All the doom and gloom makes me roll my eyes. All the doomsday scenarios predicted over the last 50 years have not come true.

This thread should probably be moved to the "Lounge" though as it is not related to our current reef tanks and can be full of opinions.

While it's probably true that "doomsday scenarios" predicted have not materialized, that should not really be a surprise. There were no emissions scenarios that were part of the mainstream, accepted science that predicted any kind of "doomsday" by 2018 as far as I'm aware. The mean of most of the major models going back 30+ years has been remarkably accurate, though (with some being higher than observed and others being lower than observed). In general, IPCC emissions scenarios associated with the various representative concentration pathways have tended to be pretty conservative -- and have underestimated observed warming for the "business as usual" scenario. This isn't opinion or politics -- it's simply a reading of the actual instrument record vs. GCMs.

 

[jschultzbass]

I agree with @jschultzbass, I tend to roll my eyes at all the doom and gloom. Not saying there aren't things that need to be improved, but just worrying about it isn't going to help anything, especially when it comes to climate change. I have no doubt the climate has been changing, what I have yet to see is a convincing argument that 1. Man is solely to blame and 2. If we are, there is anything that can be done about it at this point.

All these "climate agreements" and taxes and laws are just silly in the grand scheme of things and don't even put a dent in it if we really are the cause. With countries like China and India that will always do their own thing, the rest of the world wouldn't be able to make up for it anyway.

EXACTLY

 

[Mark Waltermire]

Here's my issue with climate change. It constantly is changing. If we have one big natural "disaster," like a large volcanic eruptions in a remote part of the world then the world's average temp can lower by 2-5ºF based on historical data. I think a natural occurrence like this will be able to solve many of the issues with warming, but most people have a tendency to forget these events happen, and the amount of change that they can have on the world at a given time.

 

[dantimdad]

What cracks me up is that the people on here, like myself, who don't agree with the Climate Change group, don't attack anyone's intelligence or person.

Yet, every single one of you that are a believer in climate change, will personally attack those who aren't. Why is that?

Be civil and your point may be heard.

I personally have looked into every bit of evidence I can find. Many, many hours of it. Guess what? 50% of the data says we are all doomed. The other 50% says, relax it's happened many times before and you can't stop it.

So, I tend to relax.

And BTW, I believe whole heartedly in vaccines. There is way more evidence they help than hurt.

 

[PDR]

Before this goes too much further. I think everyone should read this thread before posting. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/p...ore-you-post-and-be-kind.491085/#post-5296716.

In these types of threads, it seems the ones who buy into the current mainstream thought tend to belittle everyone else (not just about climate change either). Keep in mind there is still plenty that science does not know and by its nature, is constantly changing, so being dogmatic about any particular view may end up biting you in the rear later on

 

[dantimdad]

Before this goes too much further. I think everyone should read this thread before posting. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/p...ore-you-post-and-be-kind.491085/#post-5296716.

In these types of threads, it seems the ones who buy into the current mainstream thought tend to belittle everyone else (not just about climate change either). Keep in mind there is still plenty that science does not know and by its nature, is constantly changing, so being dogmatic about any particular view may end up biting you in the rear later on

Agreed!

 

[Brew12]

Ok guys and gals, if we want to discuss how the changes currently being seen in the oceans will impact the hobby, that is fine. We can not make this into an argument about the causes or severity of global warming. You will need to find a different forum for that discussion.

 

[User]

What cracks me up is that the people on here, like myself, who don't agree with the Climate Change group, don't attack anyone's intelligence or person.

Yet, every single one of you that are a believer in climate change, will personally attack those who aren't. Why is that?

...And BTW, I believe whole heartedly in vaccines. There is way more evidence they help than hurt.

I assume from the vaccine comment this is partly directed at me. If so, if you can show me where I personally attacked someone, I’ll edit the posts to apologize. It wasn’t my intention.

Thanks

 

[norfolkgarden]

"In these types of threads, it seems the ones who buy into the current mainstream thought tend to belittle everyone else (not just about climate change either). Keep in mind there is still plenty that science does not know and by its nature, is constantly changing, so being dogmatic about any particular view may end up biting you in the rear later on "

Being dogmatic is for religion.
Science, like the Marines, believes in working with all the available information and making the best decisions possible based on that information.

Do you have every possible shred of information?
No.
Should you sit on your hands when you see something obvious happening.
No

 

[dantimdad]

N

I assume from the vaccine comment this is partly directed at me. If so, if you can show me where I personally attacked someone, I’ll edit the posts to apologize. It wasn’t my intention.

Thanks

Nope not aimed at you per se.

But, for some reason, folks tend to lump anti vaxxers in with people who don't believe the main stream on climate change.

 

[smiley28]

There is a reason EBP not EBF exist... practice doesn’t not make fact.

 

[Foothill Corals]

I'm out. Just another climate change argument. I come here to avoid politics and all the other hatred in the world rite now. Reefing is my passion and escape last thing I want to do is mix my hobby with politics and arguing.

 

[Timfish1]

I am very worried about the potential impact of the degradation of reefs. While there is research showing at least some corals may be able to adapt, the issues of reefs being overfished has the real possibility of destroying reefs long before we might know the real impact of warming or acidifying oceans. For sn excellent introduction into this problem get Forest Rohwer's "Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas")

I also worry reef aquarists are putting to much faith in being able to propagate corals indefinitely by fragging. We know some corals do have life expectancies and researcher's have commented seeing what appears to be scenesence in acros. Also disconcerting is the discovery one of Farmerty's Acropora millipora could not produce any viable DNA for the same researcher though it met all the overt definitions of "healthy". Even though I have corals I've been maintiaining since the mid 90's I am not at all certain I or someone else after me will be able to keep them going in hte future simply by fragging.

 

[PDR]

"In these types of threads, it seems the ones who buy into the current mainstream thought tend to belittle everyone else (not just about climate change either). Keep in mind there is still plenty that science does not know and by its nature, is constantly changing, so being dogmatic about any particular view may end up biting you in the rear later on "

Being dogmatic is for religion.
Science, like the Marines, believes in working with all the available information and making the best decisions possible based on that information.

Do you have every possible shred of information?
No.
Should you sit on your hands when you see something obvious happening.
No

I'm not really sure how anyone could take issue with what I said...

The problem is many people take what the mainstream states as fact without doing any research for themselves, taking it by "faith" therefore treating it more like a religion than science.

I also never claimed to have all the information or advocated sitting on your hands. I absolutely agree that we should be actively doing what we can to take care of our planet. That being said, I stand by my previous comments about the "solutions" that have been presented by politicians are basically worthless.

 

[User]

N

Nope not aimed at you per se.

But, for some reason, folks tend to lump anti vaxxers in with people who don't believe the main stream on climate change.

That’s because they have a very similar anti-scientific point of view that ignores science in lieu of ‘faith’ in what other non-scientists say, or their ‘gut feelings’. The psychology behind science denial is extremely interesting, and there are strong similarities in the justification for such denial between different groups- be they anti-climate change, anti-vaccine or even history revisionists

 

[kschweer]

Let’s get this back on topic. Any more political or religious posts will result in thread bans.

 

[dantimdad]

Thank you @kschweer

 

[User]

(I started this post before the threat of banning, fwit...something I don’t agree with. If the OP feels he doesn’t like the discussion, he could steer it back without big brother making threats)

Back on track-

The only way this hobby lasts the next 20 years is through mariculture and captive breeding - be that through a concerted government effort or our own home aquarium hobbyist efforts.

As a group, we are making good headway into fish breeding and expanding and disseminating frags etc, and I think this’ll be the way forward. Open sharing and distribution of frags and colonies amongst friends to build up a repository of healthy specimens that can contribute to the ‘ark’, so when natural resources suffer, they can be saved.

 

[dantimdad]

(I started this post before the threat of banning, fwit...something I don’t agree with. If the OP feels he doesn’t like the discussion, he could steer it back without big brother making threats)

Back on track-

The only way this hobby lasts the next 20 years is through mariculture and captive breeding - be that through a concerted government effort or our own home aquarium hobbyist efforts.

As a group, we are making good headway into fish breeding and expanding and disseminating frags etc, and I think this’ll be the way forward. Open sharing and distribution of frags and colonies amongst friends to build up a repository of healthy specimens that can contribute to the ‘ark’, so when natural resources suffer, they can be saved.

I believe we as hobbyists could stop collecting from nature right this second and sustain a vibrant future for our passion.

 

[Crabs McJones]