Whats up with these nobodies who want to rip off everyone?

[reef_1]

Imagine if everyone thought the same we'd have inflated prices everywhere and noone would be able to afford to buy anything!

You just described what is actually going on in the world.

Just ask any random young couple wanting to buy a house without family inheritance/help.

 

[exnisstech]

I think we can all agree that many things which are much more important than corals are priced unethically high, like houses for example.

Don't forget medical care. At least here in the USA for many of us that work for a living. Thank goodness for the unaffordable care act.

 

[gbroadbridge]

I'm not one to post this type of thread, but as of late I've seen a lot of sellers trying to ripoff buyers looking for torches. I can go to a store and get an ASD HG for around $750 or a wild type for around $400. I got a wild type last January for $450 from a sponsor here.

Every ad I open here or Facebook is looking for $800-900 for some random HG. It's disgusting.

I bought a gold aussie for $100 a month ago . Dont know where you see those prices.

 

[GlassMunky]

Don't forget medical care. At least here in the USA for many of us that work for a living. Thank goodness for the unaffordable care act.

thank goodness nothing...... oh yea i can now buy myself $700 a month insurance for a healthy 35 year old..... thats totally affordable..... not

 

[PigDaddyF15E]

As someone mentioned earlier...it's supply and demand. Whether the demand is actual (not enough in stock) or perceived (this thing is popular so $$$$) as long as people keep buying them at these prices...things won't change. The people with the money to "afford" prices pay them and people who can sell them at those prices will continue to do so.

Heck...I just saw a FB post (signed contract) about a car dealership in TX charging a 6K non refundable deposit and 90K over MSRP for a corvette (Granted it's a Z06...but still). No way I'm paying 90K OVER sticker price...even if I win the lottery.

Video cards (were being bought up by cyrptominers so not enough for everyone else)
PS5's (bot buyers and just not enough)
Airline baggage fees (if everyone cancelled their tickets the day they started charging...it wouldn't have taken long for them to blame it on an intern and apologize...but we paid...and the fee is now standard').

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

It's scumbags marking up wilds I have an issue with. Calling it capitalism doesn't make unethical behavior suddenly become ethical.

Why does it make them a scumbag for trying to sell something at a price they think is warranted? How is it Taking advantage If a seller that is not you and a buyer that is not you agree on a price for a good and transact in that good. Why does it affect you at all?

The reference to being mad at high priced items for being high priced misses the mark. A buggati is a luxury car and should sell for a high price.

High gold torches are a luxury and are priced as such.

If I was trying to sell a Ford focus for the same price, that's me trying to rip off someone.

And nobody would buy it, correct? So where do you draw the line and make it unethical? 1% over market? 10% 100%?

How do you decide what is the right amount for Someone Else, to sell their property for?

It's a slippery slope ya see..

 

[rogersb]

I bought a gold aussie for $100 a month ago . Dont know where you see those prices.

That's a good deal right there, I haven't seen one for less than $200 in a long time.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Honestly it's a good job not everyone thinks the same way as you it's kind of a blinkered way of looking at it. Imagine if everyone thought the same we'd have inflated prices everywhere and noone would be able to afford to buy anything!

Can you explain your logic there, because that's how our economy has worked for the last 150 years. That's how this hobby has worked Forever. There is no set pricing. Everyone is free to transact with whomever they want and are not forced to set a price to market on anything which gives a true value on everything.

If buyers and sellers are free to negotiate a price on a good or service, "we'd have inflated prices everywhere and noons would be able to afford to buy anything"

This makes zero sense.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Airline baggage fees (if everyone cancelled their tickets the day they started charging...it wouldn't have taken long for them to blame it on an intern and apologize...but we paid...and the fee is now standard').

Great point and this is exactly what happened with Southwest airlines in 2006( May have been 2008) For a few months. They started testing $20 per bag rather than free When all the competition was at 50.. Sales plummeted. Southwest airlines reverted back and, bags fly free.

Edit. Possibly 08.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

That's a good deal right there, I haven't seen one for less than $200 in a long time.

RAP CA was absolutely inundated with gold torches this year. I would guess there were over a thousand heads, in the room. There were your normal named varieties, Then wild colored up varieties.

I'm a torch guy, And they were quite a few. I couldn't even tell the difference on side by side. Pricing ranged from 375 to 1,000. Most being 3 to 500 range. Let's compare that to two years ago when the prices were a thousand to 1200 per head because there would have been less than 10 heads in the entire room.

 

[PigDaddyF15E]

Great point and this is exactly what happened with Southwest airlines in 2006. For a few months. They started testing $20 per bag rather than free When all the competition was at 50.. Sales plummeted. Southwest airlines reverted back and, bags fly free.

Thanks! I did not that....

 

[rogersb]

Why does it make them a scumbag for trying to sell something at a price they think is warranted? How is it Taking advantage If a seller that is not you and a buyer that is not you agree on a price for a good and transact in that good. Why does it affect you at all?



High gold torches are a luxury and are priced as such.

And nobody would buy it, correct? So where do you draw the line and make it unethical? 1% over market? 10% 100%?

How do you decide what is the right amount for Someone Else, to sell their property for?

It's a slippery slope ya see..

I'll acknowledge that this is a good point. Can you acknowledge that charging someone $800 for a wild HG is taking advantage of someone who doesn't know where to find the same one for $450? I would guess that many times when someone is taken advantage of, it's with consent, but because the one party simply didn't know any better. Doesn't make it right.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

I'll acknowledge that this is a good point. Can you acknowledge that charging someone $800 for a wild HG is taking advantage of someone who doesn't know where to find the same one for $450? I would guess that many times when someone is taken advantage of, it's with consent, but because the one party simply didn't know any better. Doesn't make it right.

Sure. If you get a brand new reefer Just now starting to look at coral and they show you a TCK HG torch and say "This is the one I want" and they are sold an identical in appearance Wild collected, no lineage torch, passing it off as the higher priced lineage proven torch, that would be dishonest.

I'll also say that nobody is hiding the ball here. Prices are Advertised All over the place. It is a consumers responsibility to find the best price on the good or service they desire. The onus does not fall on the seller, to provide a good or service to a buyer, at the price the buyer wants to pay. It is not the sellers responsibility to make sure the buyer gets the best deal. That falls 100% on the person who wants to Aquire the good and why this All works together.

Let's consider coral shows specifically. If there are 20 booths at a show that have gold torches for sale priced from $400-$1,000.
Let's say XYZ CORAL pays the most money for the first both when you enter the show. Jim the buyer came to the show looking for a gold torch, found one at the first booth and buys it for $750. He's happy with the decision until an hour later, he sees Joe's Chopped up Corals booth is selling 2 heads that look Very Similar for $750. Jim NOW decides he didn't get the best deal.

is XYC coral acting in an unethical manner?

is Joe's Chop shop?

who is responsible for Jim not getting the best price for something he wanted and was happy to pay for?

IMO, Jim may be upset after learning he may have overpaid for something. That doesn't make it wrong for the seller to sell it.

 

[Coral Kai]

Not here to argue with anyone. Just here to share my experience

As someone who obtained a sellers permit this year to get access to "buy myself" cheaper coral ... I will tell you that the wholesale business is not as cheap as you would think. You also have to deal with all the fun stuff associated to it like pests ... cracked skeletons.... and just unhealthy coral in general.

Now there are some wholesalers/suppliers out there trying to do better and condition corals before releasing them to retailers. Those guys deserve a pat on the back.

I do see some retailers that only slightly mark it up ... and i see some sellers that mark it up higher... at the end of the day ...theres still alot of work going on behind the scenes... so yeah I def have no bias against anyone on doing what they do because they are going through different experiences when conditioning their corals for sale.

i think everyone needs to do better... suppliers...retailers...the buyers...i think reef2reef is a great place and allows this to happen

Also shipping delays are fun. I usually eat 100% of the loss for any shipping delays caused by UPS
Here's a breakdown of my last shipment (I charge $50 for shipping)
Insulated Foam - $10
Containers for shipment and 3d printed carriers - $5 per coral
UPS Next Day Air - $55
UPS being delayed twice - Free 99 (My corals might survive btw...super corals!)

 

[gbru316]

Dude ur talking to a person who used to pay $30. $100 for a gold.
That's all they were back than. They price follows the hype.
D

And that's just the cyclical nature of the hobby. It seems like every few years, a different species becomes hot and prices skyrocket.

The vast majority of us aren't here to make money. When I frag a coral, even if it's highly desirable, I trade/sell with a fellow hobbyist at a steep discount. Why? Partially because this hobby is expensive enough already. Partially because if/when my tank crashes, it's a good insurance policy if someone local has a frag of it. Partially because I hate this "grind" culture. And partially because it's how I'd want to be treated.

I'm not trying to extract money out of my tank. It's a hobby -- a money pit. And treating it like some sort of golden goose and focusing on money and profit just kind of has a tendency to take the fun out of things.


But if someone wants to take a frag and try to sell it for retail and is able to find a buyer who's happy with the price, more power to them.

 

[rogersb]

Sure. If you get a brand new reefer Just now starting to look at coral and they show you a TCK HG torch and say "This is the one I want" and they are sold an identical in appearance Wild collected, no lineage torch, passing it off as the higher priced lineage proven torch, that would be dishonest.

I'll also say that nobody is hiding the ball here. Prices are Advertised All over the place. It is a consumers responsibility to find the best price on the good or service they desire. The onus does not fall on the seller, to provide a good or service to a buyer, at the price the buyer wants to pay. It is not the sellers responsibility to make sure the buyer gets the best deal. That falls 100% on the person who wants to Aquire the good and why this All works together.

Let's consider coral shows specifically. If there are 20 booths at a show that have gold torches for sale priced from $400-$1,000.
Let's say XYZ CORAL pays the most money for the first both when you enter the show. Jim the buyer came to the show looking for a gold torch, found one at the first booth and buys it for $750. He's happy with the decision until an hour later, he sees Joe's Chopped up Corals booth is selling 2 heads that look Very Similar for $750. Jim NOW decides he didn't get the best deal.

is XYC coral acting in an unethical manner?

is Joe's Chop shop?

who is responsible for Jim not getting the best price for something he wanted and was happy to pay for?

IMO, Jim may be upset after learning he may have overpaid for something. That doesn't make it wrong for the seller to sell it.

I've already said in this thread that the onus is on the buyer. In the scenario above you are talking about businesses. I don't see any problem with either seller or price. XYZ may have more overhead and need to sell at that price point to keep the doors open. Doesn't make them wrong for selling at that price.

But you can't tell me that random people need to price gouge on corals to keep their blue lights on. I'm strictly talking about one hobbyist trying to take advantage of another.

 

[rtparty]

Don't like the price, don't buy. Don't like seeing people use the hobby as extra income, don't look at them. Don't visit the forums.

Every somebody was once a nobody

 

[cdnco2004]

Not here to argue with anyone. Just here to share my experience

As someone who obtained a sellers permit this year to get access to "buy myself" cheaper coral ... I will tell you that the wholesale business is not as cheap as you would think. You also have to deal with all the fun stuff associated to it like pests ... cracked skeletons.... and just unhealthy coral in general.

Now there are some wholesalers/suppliers out there trying to do better and condition corals before releasing them to retailers. Those guys deserve a pat on the back.

I do see some retailers that only slightly mark it up ... and i see some sellers that mark it up higher... at the end of the day ...theres still alot of work going on behind the scenes... so yeah I def have no bias against anyone on doing what they do because they are going through different experiences when conditioning their corals for sale.

i think everyone needs to do better... suppliers...retailers...the buyers...i think reef2reef is a great place and allows this to happen

Also shipping delays are fun. I usually eat 100% of the loss for any shipping delays caused by UPS
Here's a breakdown of my last shipment (I charge $50 for shipping)
Insulated Foam - $10
Containers for shipment and 3d printed carriers - $5 per coral
UPS Next Day Air - $55
UPS being delayed twice - Free 99 (My corals might survive btw...super corals!)

Me personally, I would be 100% ok with all the fees you add on to protect the coral. I have yet to buy any coral online. But when I do, I want the seller to package as you do.

 

[Dburr1014]

I'm hoping one coral in my box is the next fad. I'm going to be rich. Lol

 

[Reefer Matt]

Reefing is a luxury. That said, I personally sell extra frags at least 50-75% off retail. I only sell to people in my local area, and don't ship. It is more about sharing the coral, than making money for me.

Local reefing clubs are the best place for good deals and trades. Plus you make a lot of reefing buds!