I agree but floconazole is too risky right now, I'll never use it but to each his own. Go as basic as ya can. Small water changes once a week or two. If you do 2 part go with esv and depend on that for trace and stop the silly dosing i'd only dose microbacter for bacteria, and MAYBE once your confident your nutrient are in order, throw aminos and some kind of phyto in but direct feed to use less . Chaeto or carbon dosing, pick one, if you carbon dose Chaeto will die. skim wet and maybe try gfo... kISS method man, your overdoing it..... Get it stable and be satisfied
White Tips on SPS Frags Every Morning for Past 15 Days
- Thread starter Dr. Jim
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Go slow no matter what you do. Some times less is more.
OP
OP
OK ... so lets talk algae. Some of you are saying dinos, some say diatoms, some say cyano. I wasn't worrying too much about the algae. It certainly isn't smothering anything, and with all the stress this tank has gone through (because of my tin fiasco) I would expect some algae. Honestly, I will have to look at it again in the morning when the lights come on.
But, what harm is this algae doing exactly? Or is it more about the fact that "unwanted" algae means that the water conditions are not suitable for the corals?
Can we agree that we can ignore the bubble algae? I never heard of it being toxic. Am I missing something there? It hasn't spread in months and doesn't bother anything. My plan is to just wait until I move and then scrub the rock when I dismantle the tank. I bought an emerald crab for this algae but after 3 days my Royal Gramma went missing so the crab got banished to the refugium.
BTW. I reduced, then stopped all dosing of elements shortly after the "white tip" problem started (except for the ammonium dosing which I just started).
But, what harm is this algae doing exactly? Or is it more about the fact that "unwanted" algae means that the water conditions are not suitable for the corals?
Can we agree that we can ignore the bubble algae? I never heard of it being toxic. Am I missing something there? It hasn't spread in months and doesn't bother anything. My plan is to just wait until I move and then scrub the rock when I dismantle the tank. I bought an emerald crab for this algae but after 3 days my Royal Gramma went missing so the crab got banished to the refugium.
BTW. I reduced, then stopped all dosing of elements shortly after the "white tip" problem started (except for the ammonium dosing which I just started).
OP
OP
gfo? I'm dosing PO4, otherwise it will drop to zero (on Hanna P). Again, this is what I am finding interesting and I think should be a clue to something. The problem with the frags dying started around the same time I had to start dosing PO4 to keep the PO4 level up (to 0.04-0.08 which is my arbitrary target).
I definitely don't like the idea of chemicals with frags that are struggling. I keep asking if anyone has heard of bubble algae being toxic? If not, I don't see the need to worry about that right now.
No offense but that is not what a healthy tank looks like. If you got algae you have excessive PO4. Testing might show zero but it’s being absorbed to grow more algae. Thats a lot of cyano which can be toxic. Clean the tank really really well and stop dosing PO4.
OP
OP
Yes I know....thanks.
I know my "experimenting" was a gamble. Although it sounds like a lot of you won't believe it, but I've had many years of success with SPS (as a vendor at shows and with my little pet shop in my vet hospital) so I thought I could be a little daring.
And, I still think if it wasn't for the tin issue, things may have not turned out the way they are now. All I can do now is try to move forward..... and I appreciate everybody's input and ideas. Thank you!
OP
OP
No offense taken. So you are OK with the PO4 dropping to zero (or below 0.03 with Hanna P) when I stop dosing? I'm not arguing, I'm just thinking this is going against everything I've always thought about keeping phosphates above zero or 0.03ish.
Obviously this is important: I may need to change my thinking if everyone agrees with this.
Thanks guys for letting me know your opinions on this.
I don’t like zero PO4 at all. It will invite a Dino bloom, however in your case I really, really don’t think you have zero PO4 despite whatever the test is showing you. The algae would be dead, dying, the Cyano wouldn’t be present, the brown diatoms (or whatver that is) wouldn’t be there unless you have excessive nutrients.
schuby
Valuable Member
My $0.02 is that you make alot of changes very frequently. I've read several of your threads on here. It appears that you make major changes every few weeks: the opposite of stability.
OP
OP
I certainly agree with you. I don't know quite how to say it but I guess there is a fine line between experimenting and how much you can get away with. A lot of my experimenting involves my efforts to learn fancy programming with the GHL Controller in preparation for my next system (when I move). But of course a certain price can come with too much experimenting.
I appreciate your 2 cents. Thanks!
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Seems like you also tried to combine a grow out tank with an experimental tank. You dont really want to pack 70+ sps in a tank you plan on experimenting in. You put a couple dispensable frags in, not your whole bank. Time to stop the experimenting I think.
Your Hanna checker might say your PO4 is low, almost 0 but the pictures of your tank say otherwise. You have very high PO4 that is being used up for all that algae. Just need to get back to basics.
OP
OP
So you guys have me sitting here contemplating reducing or stopping my PO4 dosing. I am certainly at a point where I have to try something different. (Oh boy....another change!). I'm presently dosing 1.2 ml every 2 hours. For tonight, I will cut that in half and maybe tomorrow reduce it more or gradually stop it completely.
Maybe a water change and siphon after scraping the rest of the glass tomorrow.
What about the ammonium dosing? I'm guessing, stop that too.
Tomorrow I will try to take some better close-up photos and try to get the algae better identified.
But honestly, the one thing I'm still stuck on: I know there is phosphate present even if the kit reads zero, but there are so many that say that their corals will not do well if phosphates drop below a low level, like 0.03. Back in the old days when it seemed like I never had a problem, I wasn't testing PO4. I wonder what it was??
Thanks for helping Everyone.
OP
OP
Something I just thought of regarding the phosphates.....
Two weeks ago, when the "white tip" problem began, the first thing I noticed was that my phosphates (that I measure every day) dropped to around 0.02. So this problem started BEFORE I started dosing the phosphates. I started the dosing thinking that the low level was causing the problem with the corals. So I guess I'm a little curious about the rationale of letting the phosphates drop again. Is the whole premise about the cyano or dino being responsible for using up the phosphates AND they are releasing toxins that are harming the corals?
Two weeks ago, when the "white tip" problem began, the first thing I noticed was that my phosphates (that I measure every day) dropped to around 0.02. So this problem started BEFORE I started dosing the phosphates. I started the dosing thinking that the low level was causing the problem with the corals. So I guess I'm a little curious about the rationale of letting the phosphates drop again. Is the whole premise about the cyano or dino being responsible for using up the phosphates AND they are releasing toxins that are harming the corals?
yeah I'm saying stop stripping your tank to the point of dosing nutrients, I think it's just not working out and balance your nutrients the old fashioned way with food and a skimmer, and other phosphate exporting with chaeto.
OP
OP
What do you mean by "stop stripping your tank....." What am I doing to strip it?
Thanks.
OP
OP
Hmmm. Others are suggesting that I stop dosing PO4 because they say that is causing cyano. Both are good points, but conflicting.
stephj03
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You're still in the uglies on this rig IMO. Algae is outcompeting your corals for nutrients. That is why your residuals are low and your cheato fades and your tips are white.
Uglies are a phase of the tank. They don't have a specified interval or cure. The things you have done are meant to accelerate completion of the uglies but not avoidance.
That is why some of the advice you have received is confusing. It's from a perspective that cause may be unknowable and knowing may not be required to fix if the solution is to let the ecosystem in your tank figure itself out for itself.
And that perspective is also from a place that would focus first on letting the tank figure itself out vs trying the save the frags at the same time.
Uglies are a phase of the tank. They don't have a specified interval or cure. The things you have done are meant to accelerate completion of the uglies but not avoidance.
That is why some of the advice you have received is confusing. It's from a perspective that cause may be unknowable and knowing may not be required to fix if the solution is to let the ecosystem in your tank figure itself out for itself.
And that perspective is also from a place that would focus first on letting the tank figure itself out vs trying the save the frags at the same time.
I mean "stripping" like there too much exporting to the point that you need does when it's not necessary is all I'm saying. If that makes sense to ya.. Too much protein skimming or carbon dosing or other exporters .. Like someone else said, take it to basics and let it fix itself over time. But this is IMO ofcourse, I may be wrong, you seem like you know what's your doing.
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