Why cant I get coral growth?

outhouse

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0 phosphates griw just fine. There is no such thing as zero in a tank where one feeds fish. With algae obviously OP does not have zero. OP has other issues. Let's get growth back and algae gone, then we can fine tune other debated issues. I run zero phosphates and have amazing growth
 
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Buckyfan

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Do you have any CUC? That would help with taking care of algae if you boost feed to increase nutrients, provided you aren't going to add another fish or two.

I too have very little measured nitrates and phosphates in a 29 gallon, when they were high 30 ppm nat and 1ppm phos, my softies did fine and one LPS, I did have lots of GHA as well. Anything else died over time. I agree with the above, get the cal up and the mg down. I usually have mine around 420 to 450 and Mg usually around NSW levels or slightly above, alk around 8. I dose kalk and coralline grows everywhere. I do have a refuge with chaeto and my skimmer is run on the dry side.

I was running my tank with one LED strip around 75%, 14,000K. It did fine for a long time, but the sides of my tank weren't growing corals so I put on two T5s for even coverage. Things seemed to be growing great, but have also turned things down on both fixtures since some corals are growing different than before. It's a challenge with a small tank and growing softies, LPS and SPS.
Currently no clean up crew but I'll add some if I increase nutrients. I've never dosed anything so I'll have to look into increasing calcium and decreasing mg.
Thanks
 

Timfish

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We can only test for Dissolved Inorganic Phosphorus (DIP), aka orthophospahte, aka PO4. Systems also have Dissolved ORganic Phosphorus (DOP) which is used by corals and algae and Particualte Organic Phosphorus which can be used by corals. When phosphorus is limited nuisance algae almost always outcompetes corals so keeping a very low or zero PO4 hurts corals more than algae.


Phosphorus metabolism of reef organisms with algal symbionts

FIg 4 from the above paper
DIP DOP POP.jpg


And if your interested here's some more stuff on phosphate/phosphorus and algae


BActeria and Sponges


Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)


Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"



An Experimental Mesocosm for Longterm Studies of Reef Corals

Phosphate Deficiency:
Nutrient enrichment can increase the susceptibility of reef corals to bleaching:

Ultrastructural Biomarkers in Symbiotic Algae Reflect the Availability of Dissolved Inorganic Nutrients and Particulate Food to the Reef Coral Holobiont:

Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

Effects of phosphate on growth and skeletal density in the scleractinian coral Acropora muricata: A controlled experimental approach

High phosphate uptake requirements of the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

Phosphorus metabolism of reef organisms with algal symbionts


Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle

Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges
 

outhouse

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Thats is a lot of rhetoric above that ignores the fact ocean water in its natural state is cleaner then almost every reef tank as far as phosphates and nitrates are concerned. If you feed your fish, you have both no matter what your test kits say. And most skilled people cannot keep a tank balanced without have algae issues in todays modern reef aquariums. And above all it is NOT OPs problem.
My water has undetectable amounts, and my growth is off the charts, and no algae.
 
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Buckyfan

Buckyfan

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We can only test for Dissolved Inorganic Phosphorus (DIP), aka orthophospahte, aka PO4. Systems also have Dissolved ORganic Phosphorus (DOP) which is used by corals and algae and Particualte Organic Phosphorus which can be used by corals. When phosphorus is limited nuisance algae almost always outcompetes corals so keeping a very low or zero PO4 hurts corals more than algae.


Phosphorus metabolism of reef organisms with algal symbionts

FIg 4 from the above paper
DIP DOP POP.jpg


And if your interested here's some more stuff on phosphate/phosphorus and algae


BActeria and Sponges


Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)


Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"



An Experimental Mesocosm for Longterm Studies of Reef Corals

Phosphate Deficiency:
Nutrient enrichment can increase the susceptibility of reef corals to bleaching:

Ultrastructural Biomarkers in Symbiotic Algae Reflect the Availability of Dissolved Inorganic Nutrients and Particulate Food to the Reef Coral Holobiont:

Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

Effects of phosphate on growth and skeletal density in the scleractinian coral Acropora muricata: A controlled experimental approach

High phosphate uptake requirements of the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

Phosphorus metabolism of reef organisms with algal symbionts


Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle

Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges


We can only test for Dissolved Inorganic Phosphorus (DIP), aka orthophospahte, aka PO4. Systems also have Dissolved ORganic Phosphorus (DOP) which is used by corals and algae and Particualte Organic Phosphorus which can be used by corals. When phosphorus is limited nuisance algae almost always outcompetes corals so keeping a very low or zero PO4 hurts corals more than algae.


Phosphorus metabolism of reef organisms with algal symbionts

FIg 4 from the above paper
DIP DOP POP.jpg


And if your interested here's some more stuff on phosphate/phosphorus and algae


BActeria and Sponges


Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)


Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"



An Experimental Mesocosm for Longterm Studies of Reef Corals

Phosphate Deficiency:
Nutrient enrichment can increase the susceptibility of reef corals to bleaching:

Ultrastructural Biomarkers in Symbiotic Algae Reflect the Availability of Dissolved Inorganic Nutrients and Particulate Food to the Reef Coral Holobiont:

Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

Effects of phosphate on growth and skeletal density in the scleractinian coral Acropora muricata: A controlled experimental approach

High phosphate uptake requirements of the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

Phosphorus metabolism of reef organisms with algal symbionts


Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle

Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges


We can only test for Dissolved Inorganic Phosphorus (DIP), aka orthophospahte, aka PO4. Systems also have Dissolved ORganic Phosphorus (DOP) which is used by corals and algae and Particualte Organic Phosphorus which can be used by corals. When phosphorus is limited nuisance algae almost always outcompetes corals so keeping a very low or zero PO4 hurts corals more than algae.


Phosphorus metabolism of reef organisms with algal symbionts

FIg 4 from the above paper
DIP DOP POP.jpg


And if your interested here's some more stuff on phosphate/phosphorus and algae


BActeria and Sponges


Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)


Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"



An Experimental Mesocosm for Longterm Studies of Reef Corals

Phosphate Deficiency:
Nutrient enrichment can increase the susceptibility of reef corals to bleaching:

Ultrastructural Biomarkers in Symbiotic Algae Reflect the Availability of Dissolved Inorganic Nutrients and Particulate Food to the Reef Coral Holobiont:

Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

Effects of phosphate on growth and skeletal density in the scleractinian coral Acropora muricata: A controlled experimental approach

High phosphate uptake requirements of the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

Phosphorus metabolism of reef organisms with algal symbionts


Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle

Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges

Yeah, it's just counterintuitive. You have algae and therefore phosphates so increase your phosphates to help your coral grow without turning the tank into a mess.
 

markwayts

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I have a 40 breeder with a 40 breeder sump, a reef octopus in sump skimmer and a n orion SL series 140 wat led light for marine corals. I also have a spectrapure RODI system. I haven't checked the TDS recently, but historically it's been 0-3. My tank is at least 5 years old. Currently it's bare bottom.
My issue is that I've never really been successful at coral growth other that mushrooms. I have 2 Jeabo wp 10 wavemakers and a long narrow one that is less powerful that goes along the back of the tank ( can't remember what that one is ). I was just trying to keep dead spots from happening. I switched to bare bottom due to too much algae. I do have my led's turned down to less than 50 % for the same reason ( algae). they are on for about 8 hours, heavy on blue. I have had some success with mushrooms, candy cane corals, green hammer etc, but I cant even grow green star polyp or zoas. They don't die right away, they just fade. I have some coraline algea but it doesn't seem to be spreading. I dip the corals before they go in the tank. I have maybe 15# of rock, 75% of which has been in the tank for years. I get algae on my dry rock ( I think turf algae ) that's relatively new but not on my older rock. I get algae on my glass every 5-7 days. I don't and never have dosed anything. I only have one clownfish. That's it currently, nothing else. I change water every 7-14 days 10 %. I use reef crystals.
My parameters
ph 8.3
kh8.4
nitrate 3
ca 400
mg 1600+
posphate ( hanna checker ) 0 not sure how I get algae with zero phosphates

Any thoughts on why I can't grow coral? More light? less flow? If I turn my lights way up I just get more algae. I'd just be happy with zoas and green star polyp for now. I seemed to have better success when I had no experience with a new tank with sand.
Thanks
It took me years to understand that algae thrives in low nutrient environments. Bacteria and algae use nutrients but algae has the benefit of being able to use sunlight. If your tank has no corals in it i would turn the lights off and let the nutrients raise to acceptable levels and dose bacteria. After the bacteria is healthy it will out compete problem algae. Then it's amino's and always remember sps means STABILITY PROMOTES SUCCESS. that goes for everything: lighting, salinity, temp, alk, calcium, nitrates, phosphates ph etc. the more stable the better. If you need to correct anything do it over a week not in a day.
 
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