Why cant u keep sps?

[jda]

Shaking my head at all of this bacterial talk? How many have read an a book from an actual pHd on the reefing subject? You know, one who got peer reviewed and survived the scientific vetting, editorial and publication process. The books are abundant and even if they are ten to thirty years old, bacteria has not changed since then - neither have chemistry and biology. How many are basing this on what a manufacturer is telling you... and a lot of supposition? All of this reads more like a cult than biology to me... mostly based on words on the back of a supplement bottle.

I am pretty sure that my coral does not wander into the sand and rock and and to eat bacteria, nor eat them from the water column. Even if they could eat it, which is highly doubtful in the case of most SPS (we are in the SPS forum), then the bacteria multiply so rapidly that they would grow back to equilibrium in no time. Bacteria are made to grow rapidly and and to eventually form an equilibrium with their environment... so ask yourself if a human or a product in a bottle is better at this than these organisms that have evolved and modified for millennia in nature to actually do this task. It is absurd to think that a few coral can cause a bacterial population to decrease when there is abundant resources for them to multiply.

This all to me is a manufacturer trying to capitalize on some people trying to outsmart nature. This applies equally to both the acute and continued use of their products, both of which are necessary for them to stay in business.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

Shaking my head at all of this bacterial talk? How many have read an a book from an actual pHd on the reefing subject? You know, one who got peer reviewed and survived the scientific vetting, editorial and publication process. The books are abundant and even if they are ten to thirty years old, bacteria has not changed since then - neither have chemistry and biology. How many are basing this on what a manufacturer is telling you... and a lot of supposition? All of this reads more like a cult than biology to me... mostly based on words on the back of a supplement bottle.

I am pretty sure that my coral does not wander into the sand and rock and and to eat bacteria, nor eat them from the water column. Even if they could eat it, which is highly doubtful in the case of most SPS (we are in the SPS forum), then the bacteria multiply so rapidly that they would grow back to equilibrium in no time. Bacteria are made to grow rapidly and and to eventually form an equilibrium with their environment... so ask yourself if a human or a product in a bottle is better at this than these organisms that have evolved and modified for millennia in nature to actually do this task. It is absurd to think that a few coral can cause a bacterial population to decrease when there is abundant resources for them to multiply.

This all to me is a manufacturer trying to capitalize on some people trying to outsmart nature. This applies equally to both the acute and continued use of their products, both of which are necessary for them to stay in business.

Well said. I have tried to stay out of bacteria supplement thread talks. The only time I will use them is if my reef has went through a stressor. Even then I can’t be sure they do anything but help with some nutrient reduction temporarily.
Maybe these bacteria in a bottle help when a reef is not functioning properly but they are certainly not needed to have a thriving long term sps filled reef. Now wether or not these products help actual acropora that are dying, I would guess not, in any direct large degree. Maybe they can feed on the bacteria? I wouldn’t guess to any degree that will make a visible difference in a healthy reef. I would guess some can help to boost the micro life population of a hurt or newly populated reef tank.
I would guess that these bottled bacteria’s might be present for a bit but then die off or stay around in much lower numbers. I would think now is the best time for users to find out what is really in them since testing has been available for a little while.

Another thing to think about, is that company testing microbes tested paul b’s popular “40 year old reef tank” and found it had a lot larger populations of bacteria that were not in most other reefs. He is big on supplementing his reef with ocean water/mud/bugs even from cold waters yearly I believe. Now that’s not much to draw conclusions from but a good thing to think about in this thread.
So from that I would counter this bacteria in a bottle idea with the thought that maybe these reefs that have dying corals would benifit from the addition of a few pieces of new live rock. This method has been around since the start and many successful reefs have implemented it. Getting a few new rocks of live rock or even rock from another tank, once a year or more.

I have been using reef bugs and rebiotic to try and boost my tank back to normal health after a tank transfer. I waited a long while for it to bounce back but it was taking almost a year. I tried these two products and things started to come around. I can’t be sure that patience wasn’t the reason for the turnaround though. And I certainly don’t feel like I need to continually dose these for my reef to be complete that’s for sure.

 

[ycnibrc]

Shaking my head at all of this bacterial talk? How many have read an a book from an actual pHd on the reefing subject? You know, one who got peer reviewed and survived the scientific vetting, editorial and publication process. The books are abundant and even if they are ten to thirty years old, bacteria has not changed since then - neither have chemistry and biology. How many are basing this on what a manufacturer is telling you... and a lot of supposition? All of this reads more like a cult than biology to me... mostly based on words on the back of a supplement bottle.

I am pretty sure that my coral does not wander into the sand and rock and and to eat bacteria, nor eat them from the water column. Even if they could eat it, which is highly doubtful in the case of most SPS (we are in the SPS forum), then the bacteria multiply so rapidly that they would grow back to equilibrium in no time. Bacteria are made to grow rapidly and and to eventually form an equilibrium with their environment... so ask yourself if a human or a product in a bottle is better at this than these organisms that have evolved and modified for millennia in nature to actually do this task. It is absurd to think that a few coral can cause a bacterial population to decrease when there is abundant resources for them to multiply.

This all to me is a manufacturer trying to capitalize on some people trying to outsmart nature. This applies equally to both the acute and continued use of their products, both of which are necessary for them to stay in business.

Lol the original topic of this thread is for those who can't keep Sps with perfect parameters and flow and light but their Sps still are not healthy not to sell zeovit bacteria.
If u start with dryrock and u don't add any source of bacteria then u have none. Forget about zeovit lol add tropic Marin, redsea, aquaforest, brightwell, fauna Marine

 

[SeaDweller]

I'm gonna have all the successful reefers I know spit in a bottle

Lol the original topic of this thread is for those who can't keep Sps with perfect parameters and flow and light but their Sps still are not healthy not to sell zeovit bacteria.
If u start with dryrock and u don't add any source of bacteria then u have none. Forget about zeovit lol add tropic Marin, redsea, aquaforest, brightwell, fauna Marine

Although I DO agree with you, I know of reefers who are successful with starting with dry rock, all new everything, dead rock, reboots, etc. and who don't use bacterial products and their tanks are awesome. I'm gonna argue that THE common denominator between all of them is... experience. We are forgetting we get bacteria for free in their fish poop. The other common thing is just to feed the dang tank, alot.

I used MB7 and ecobalance to add to my already poor system, so to me, it didn't hurt to add it to *maybe* help with any strains i was potentially lacking. I can't say it helps or hurts. I feel alot of people have issues with "perfect" parameters because 1) their source water isn't as clean as they think 2)running their systems too lean 3)overthinking things/experience.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

Lol the original topic of this thread is for those who can't keep Sps with perfect parameters and flow and light but their Sps still are not healthy not to sell zeovit bacteria.
If u start with dryrock and u don't add any source of bacteria then u have none. Forget about zeovit lol add tropic Marin, redsea, aquaforest, brightwell, fauna Marine

Well if you start with dry rock and cycle the tank with a bacteria you do have bacteria. I don’t know of anyone who starts a dry rock tank and tries to cycle it without adding any bacteria. I am confused on what your point is there. I don’t think anyone is trying to say your pushing zeovit either so don’t worry about that. Good thread!

 

[ycnibrc]

Well if you start with dry rock and cycle the tank with a bacteria you do have bacteria. I don’t know of anyone who starts a dry rock tank and tries to cycle it without adding any bacteria. I am confused on what your point is there. I don’t think anyone is trying to say your pushing zeovit either so don’t worry about that. Good thread!

When u cycle your tank u only introduce 2 type of bacteria reducing amonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate. There are other beneficial bacteria that u can add to help your tank bio diversity. Long ago we add real live rock from the ocean which contains many different bacteria

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

I'm gonna have all the successful reefers I know spit in a bottle

Although I DO agree with you, I know of reefers who are successful with starting with dry rock, all new everything, dead rock, reboots, etc. and who don't use bacterial products and their tanks are awesome. I'm gonna argue that THE common denominator between all of them is... experience. We are forgetting we get bacteria for free in their fish poop. The other common thing is just to feed the dang tank, alot.

I used MB7 and ecobalance to add to my already poor system, so to me, it didn't hurt to add it to *maybe* help with any strains i was potentially lacking. I can't say it helps or hurts. I feel alot of people have issues with "perfect" parameters because 1) their source water isn't as clean as they think 2)running their systems too lean 3)overthinking things/experience.

Coralalysis by analysis

 

[Graffiti Spot]

When u cycle your tank u only introduce 2 type of bacteria reducing amonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate. There are other beneficial bacteria that u can add to help your tank bio diversity. Long ago we add real live rock from the ocean which contains many different bacteria

I got you. If we are adding corals the bacteria will come on the coral bases, plugs and clean up crew shells so unless it’s just a fish tank I would disagree but I see what your getting at.

 

[ycnibrc]

I got you. If we are adding corals the bacteria will come on the coral bases, plugs and clean up crew shells so unless it’s just a fish tank I would disagree but I see what your getting at.

Yes however we use to add wild colony before which carry multiple strain of bacteria. I doubt the 3/4" frag nowadays carry much

 

[Daddy-o]

I got you. If we are adding corals the bacteria will come on the coral bases, plugs and clean up crew shells so unless it’s just a fish tank I would disagree but I see what your getting at.

Unless you dip heavily

 

[vanpire]

I agree with the OP. And he is just giving us his observations.

Maybe, we are missing some beneficial microbes or having the wrong ratio of good to bad bacteria. Hard to tell without testing. Not everything has to be published and peer-reviewed correct. We could learn things by observation in our tanks or by sheer luck.

What I am wondering is the adding of bacteria regularly....I can see why the manufacturers want us to do that, but I wonder how necessary it is to dose additional bacteria once the initial colony is created. We do know that it is very possible for one strain to out compete another strain, but how long is that period? Is it weekly, monthly, annually, etc?

 

[ycnibrc]

I agree with the OP. And he is just giving us his observations.

Maybe, we are missing some beneficial microbes or having the wrong ratio of good to bad bacteria. Hard to tell without testing. Not everything has to be published and peer-reviewed correct. We could learn things by observation in our tanks or by sheer luck.

What I am wondering is the adding of bacteria regularly....I can see why the manufacturers want us to do that, but I wonder how necessary it is to dose additional bacteria once the initial colony is created. We do know that it is very possible for one strain to out compete another strain, but how long is that period? Is it weekly, monthly, annually, etc?

My corals grow pretty fast for the age of my tank which is 2.5 years. The first year not too much but after that it's incredible. For my tank I feel like if don't add more bacteria then the consumption of corals will deplete the bacteria population. I have no proof that's the case just base on experience and observation. This thread is more toward anyone who try and fail at Sps even u have a perfect parameters and set up. If you haven't try to add bacteria it doesn't hurt. I know there are some who successfully have Sps tank without adding bacteria good for u as long as you are happy with your tank there is no need to change but for those who's not happy with their tank may be time to look outside the box

 

[ycnibrc]

Tank in Feb 2018


Tank in dec 2019

 

[Perry]

Lol,
Cannot argue with that
Outstanding Anthony!!!

 

[ycnibrc]

Lol,
Cannot argue with that
Outstanding Anthony!!!

Have u notice the staghorn growth it's incredible. I probably frag it 100x

 

[Perry]

Have u notice the staghorn growth it's incredible

Yes!!!
I have been following your tank for awhile, videos, etc. Remember you from the sps forum on the other dinosaur site, lol The growth has been insane, you are truly on to something special
Cheers

 

[Graffiti Spot]

I remember the blu coral method produced some insane staghorn colonies a while back. I wonder if your results are similar to theirs in that their heavy feeding of fresh blended foods promoted large bacterial populations.
I have to say it’s refreshing to see someone besides else enjoying large staghorn colonies and not just cutting them back or selling them when they start to actually show what they can do. Stags with thick branches and bases make me excited

 

[ycnibrc]

I remember the blu coral method produced some insane staghorn colonies a while back. I wonder if your results are similar to theirs in that their heavy feeding of fresh blended foods promoted large bacterial populations.
I have to say it’s refreshing to see someone besides else enjoying large staghorn colonies and not just cutting them back or selling them when they start to actually show what they can do. Stags with thick branches and bases make me excited

I even bought staghorn damsel so they can live among the staghorn

 

[SeaDweller]

I even bought staghorn damsel so they can live among the staghorn

where and how much?

 

[ycnibrc]

where and how much?

Ellis aquatic in Compton 5$ each when buy multiple