Why cant u keep sps?

[SeaDweller]

Look, check it out... @ycnibrc is giving everyone who’s willing to listen an idea of what he feels works for him. Is he the Acropora authority? No. Is he an expert? No. Is anyone here an Acropora expert that knows each and every single aspect of Acropora, down to the genetics or biology or has spent years and years doing scientific research and dedicating their lives to knowing Acropora? No (maybe).

Are some of us good and lucky to keep them successfully? Yes. So looking at his system is it solely the bacteria, or the fact he has super detectable N&P levels, or the years of experience he has? it comes down to everything combined.

some people suck at keeping anything reef related. Some people don’t understand enough. Some are just new. Some don’t test enough. Some don’t care enough. Some aren’t aware of certain uncontrollable factors that can affect their tanks.

people are going to fail in this niche of a niche hobby and it’s up to them whether or not they’re willing to learn from their mistakes or just keep repeating the same ones.

this forum is full of failures compared to the success stories. Too many “why are my sps dying/bleaching/looking pale”, so Anthony is trying to lend a hand to see what has worked for him, and perhaps it does and maybe it doesn’t. If you try adding bacteria and get death or different effects, don’t go blaming him but try to understand what is still wrong with your system.

 

[ycnibrc]

By reading other reefers thread i have learned and filter out what is going on with most reefer tank on the forum. Im no mean find a cure or an absolute way to keep sps thats why my statement never stated that bacteria is definitely the cure. However i only share with everyone whats working for me. I dont grow my frags to colonies size in 1.5 years by luck.

 

[ycnibrc]

How about letting nitrate and phosphate swing? Does that have the same effect as alkalinity swinging?

My tank can take nitrate and phosphate to zero very quickly. If each day I dose 2ppm nitrate, and it’s zero by morning, is that harming corals?

My algae problems are what I believe to be sucking down the nitrate and phosphate.

No3 and po4 are food to the corals. If your tank have enough then your corals will benefit from it. If your tank have less then your corals will starve. Alk and Ca help building the skeleton of the coral. Your coral might still grow the skeleton but without enough food then the tissue will be thin and look dry

 

[NeutronMan]

I think that most problems have to do with starvation. A tank full of algae is going to compete/outcompete corals for nitrates and phosphate.

Ive never seen a healthy Acropora tank that is also overrun by algae.

My theory is that dosing bacteria is a great way to feed the corals without feeding the algae in the same way that dosing nitrates alone would feed algae. I’ve ordered the zeostart to go with the Zeobak and Zeofood to see how this plays out.

My corals were looking “fat” and I was feeding heavy and began to dose nitrates. Algae exploded and now I am having stn and zero nitrates and phosphate problems.

 

[justingraham]

I think people assume their tank numbers are good.
how many people who are asking for help are actually testing their tank daily? Or are they just testing when there is a problem? What test kits are they using? Is their LFS doing their test for them?
I think the main problem is people aren’t testing properly. I am the same way on nitrate phosphate calcium but I test alkalinity every four hours tho as to me that’s the most important. And for the others I feed the same amount daily and dose the same amount daily so I really don’t worry about them.
new people in the hobby want a tank that takes years to make overnight without putting the effort into finding out the proper way to do it. They buy products based on people they don’t know who endorse it. Use gfo to bring down phosphates then dose this when they bottom out.
also I believe source water to be a huge problem. RODI units are only as good as the filters. At my house if I hit 1tds my corals bleach so whatever that one is is deadly. That took me a year to find out. That I had to change my filters before my time tds was above zero or death from above.
it comes down to the person who wants to read and find out the answers or the person who wants to Do little to no work and just ask hey my corals are doing bad here’s my numbers right now havnt tested them in weeks what’s wrong?

 

[justingraham]

And the way I do my tank works for me do I want a tank like Bubba or Ty absolutely but they put work in that I can’t on a daily basis I know my limits and what works for me that is also where I think people need to look at are u willing to put In the effort to have a tank like Bubba or ty not just for one day but for years. I found away to enjoy my tank and watch corals grow and color up could they grow better and more colorful yes but I found a routine where it fits my lifestyle and the corals look good to me.

 

[greg 45]

ycnibrc/ I have been using a bacteria product to help remove some algae issue's in a 1200 gallon system. The system has sps and anemones mostly magnifica. And they look 100% better after using a bacteria product . Now system has dropped to zero across the board and getting a different type of algae. My question is that if you are dosing the bacteria , why are you keeping nitrates at 10 not high inmo , and phosphates at a elevated level esp. po4 at 1.0 . I am running a refugium with red dragons breath . Please advise .

 

[ycnibrc]

ycnibrc/ I have been using a bacteria product to help remove some algae issue's in a 1200 gallon system. The system has sps and anemones mostly magnifica. And they look 100% better after using a bacteria product . Now system has dropped to zero across the board and getting a different type of algae. My question is that if you are dosing the bacteria , why are you keeping nitrates at 10 not high inmo , and phosphates at a elevated level esp. po4 at 0.1 . I am running a refugium with red dragons breath . Please advise .

I run ulns before and its capable to keep acro alive how ever its very sensitive. If you dont feed enough or lacking a bit your corals will react negatively right away. By running my tank with po4 0.1 n no3 10ppm i dont have to worry about missing feeding or dosing. U can adjust your dosage to keep your po4 n no3 at your desire levels. I treat my nutrients like the Alkalinity

 

[Ashish Patel]

Must haves:
- Established LR or near established rock work, microfauna, sponges, bacteria. absent of surface area warzone
- Stable ALK, Testing daily or every 2 days if needed like when making dosing adjustments or other changes. I've seen my tank go through other parameter swings such as very low nutrients or Calcium but having stable alk makes it a non issue.
- Flow, not linear, circular flow the one that really hits the corals from inside out. Back in the day I though adding a 3000gph koralia on my 120gallon was consider good flow, it was just really strong one directional BAD flow.
Nutrients - Have to have them in the tank, Its food.. Just have to make sure other things are in balance so your corals can use the nutrients and not your Bubble algae. This is when having established LR is vital. If you can't wait to add your SPS get some LR from a pet shop you'll save money in Lost corals in no time.
- Finally observe your tank, acclimate your corals properly to lighting, feeding them what they need, If you have low Iodine, iron, or potassium, figure out how to bring it up weekly or monthly.

 

[ycnibrc]

Must haves:
- Established LR or near established rock work, microfauna, sponges, bacteria. absent of surface area warzone
- Stable ALK, Testing daily or every 2 days if needed like when making dosing adjustments or other changes. I've seen my tank go through other parameter swings such as very low nutrients or Calcium but having stable alk makes it a non issue.
- Flow, not linear, circular flow the one that really hits the corals from inside out. Back in the day I though adding a 3000gph koralia on my 120gallon was consider good flow, it was just really strong one directional BAD flow.
Nutrients - Have to have them in the tank, Its food.. Just have to make sure other things are in balance so your corals can use the nutrients and not your Bubble algae. This is when having established LR is vital. If you can't wait to add your SPS get some LR from a pet shop you'll save money in Lost corals in no time.
- Finally observe your tank, acclimate your corals properly to lighting, feeding them what they need, If you have low Iodine, iron, or potassium, figure out how to bring it up weekly or monthly.

A good blue print to follow especially on flow. Directional flow is not healthy for coral. Pulsing or random direction are best.

 

[Ashish Patel]

A good blue print to follow especially on flow. Directional flow is not healthy for coral. Pulsing or random direction are best.

I wish there was more products like the sea swirls available at better price point. With just the MP40 alone you see vortex above the pump alone..When adding a seasweep it causes these vortex at every point in the tank. Acros started growing symmetrical and not growing in one direction. Overtime not keeping up with flow caused corals to bleach out at the bottom faster then they should so keeping pumps cleaned monthly. Having oversized DC pumps available is priceless since as little as 6 month I found myself having to increase flow to all devices. (vectra m1 return to 1 seaswirl, 2 MP40, 1 seasweep with jebao DC). Crazy part this was on a 120 and now I am trying to achieve same results on a 400 gallon

 

[Graffiti Spot]

I wish there was more products like the sea swirls available at better price point. With just the MP40 alone you see vortex above the pump alone..When adding a seasweep it causes these vortex at every point in the tank. Acros started growing symmetrical and not growing in one direction. Overtime not keeping up with flow caused corals to bleach out at the bottom faster then they should so keeping pumps cleaned monthly. Having oversized DC pumps available is priceless since as little as 6 month I found myself having to increase flow to all devices. (vectra m1 return to 1 seaswirl, 2 MP40, 1 seasweep with jebao DC). Crazy part this was on a 120 and now I am trying to achieve same results on a 400 gallon

100% agree! One of the best pieces of equipment I have bought and wish I could afford more!

 

[nick0206]

I will add a case from my experience to this controversy.
My second Tank (2010 - 2015) worked on water from the Mediterranean Sea, which I diluted with RO water to the desired salinity. The tank is 90% SPS.
25 gallons, no sump, 15% weekly water change, external skimmer, GFO and vodka. I did tests once a month at best.
Of the equipment, in addition is Deltek skimmer, there is a 116 watt Chinese led lamp and one pump without adjustment of Hydor Korallia at 600 gallons per hour.
Topping up water by hand.
Everything grew remarkably (it will be necessary to somehow post a photo).
Usually, if I go on vacation with my family, I ask my brother to come to my house to feed the fishes and add supplements (I still use Ca, Mg, Alk and others daily by hand).
It so happened that we went on vacation to Armenia with two families and I had no one to ask to look after the tank.
There were few fish, and I hoped that they would survive by hunting copipods, which were many in my tank. Without feeding, the nutrients should not have jumped sharply either.
There was a question of adding RO water. I knew from experience that I had about 0.4 gallons per day evaporated.
In the end, I just poured 4 gallons of RO water into my 25 gallons tank and left.
Upon arrival, I discovered that everything had survived.
I told this to the fact that SPS is not so hard to keep corals, especially when they acclimatized.

 

[10001110101]

The only problem with your bacteria theory is that even if you have multiple strains of bacteria when the rock is i. the ocean once it has been i. your tank for a while the biodiversity will diminish as a certain species or a few outcompete the local conditions of your tank. Also dont really see how having a more diverse group of bacteria is even necessarily beneficial to sps corals. Also I think people have far more success with sps now than 10 years ago. I think the hobby is bigger and frags are more expensive so you have more newbies buying $100+ frags for their 1 month old tank and losing them and they are voicing their complaints more for obvious reasons.

 

[ycnibrc]

The only problem with your bacteria theory is that even if you have multiple strains of bacteria when the rock is i. the ocean once it has been i. your tank for a while the biodiversity will diminish as a certain species or a few outcompete the local conditions of your tank. Also dont really see how having a more diverse group of bacteria is even necessarily beneficial to sps corals. Also I think people have far more success with sps now than 10 years ago. I think the hobby is bigger and frags are more expensive so you have more newbies buying $100+ frags for their 1 month old tank and losing them and they are voicing their complaints more for obvious reasons.

I'm dosing zeovit and zeobak in particular.

Bacteria is food for Sps the more diverse the better. I only share what I see from my tank. It obviously not Alk, Ca and Mag cause the growth of the corals

 

[NeutronMan]

Im now dosing Zeobak, Zeostart, and Zeofood. I may be imagining things, but my abomination algae looks to be weakening...

 

[Big E]

There is nothing in that Zeobak description that isn't already in any healthy system

There is plenty of bacteria for corals to consume even though most of their nutrients are taken in by the bacterial film that is symbiotic and specific to each coral. That bacteria in turn feeds the zoo and the zoo provides most of the essential amino acids, ect for the coral to grow.

That's only one avenue as the other is light that also provides what the zoo needs.

Corals take in ammonium and urea directly from fish...........if anyone wants a healthier system just have enough fish and feed them well. There will also be plenty of nitrogen available.

The poop has plenty of P04 that passes through the fish and promotes bacterial growth. There will be plenty of bacteria for every living organism in your system.

I've kept healthy and colorful Acropora systems for 20 years and have never dosed bacteria as a food source.

 

[Silent]

There is nothing in that Zeobak description that isn't already in any healthy system

There is plenty of bacteria for corals to consume even though most of their nutrients are taken in by the bacterial film that is symbiotic and specific to each coral. That bacteria in turn feeds the zoo and the zoo provides most of the essential amino acids, ect for the coral to grow.

That's only one avenue as the other is light that also provides what the zoo needs.

Corals take in ammonium and urea directly from fish...........if anyone wants a healthier system just have enough fish and feed them well. There will also be plenty of nitrogen available.

The poop has plenty of P04 that passes through the fish and promotes bacterial growth. There will be plenty of bacteria for every living organism in your system.

I've kept healthy and colorful Acropora systems for 20 years and have never dosed bacteria as a food source.

I am glad you have been very successful with your acros and your post does make sense, but you are not the recommended reefer the OP is considering to take this thread into consideration. I believe this thread is for the reefer with no other viable reason their sps are not doing as well as they think they should. If all else fails, try bacteria.

 

[ScottB]

There is nothing in that Zeobak description that isn't already in any healthy system

There is plenty of bacteria for corals to consume even though most of their nutrients are taken in by the bacterial film that is symbiotic and specific to each coral. That bacteria in turn feeds the zoo and the zoo provides most of the essential amino acids, ect for the coral to grow.

That's only one avenue as the other is light that also provides what the zoo needs.

Corals take in ammonium and urea directly from fish...........if anyone wants a healthier system just have enough fish and feed them well. There will also be plenty of nitrogen available.

The poop has plenty of P04 that passes through the fish and promotes bacterial growth. There will be plenty of bacteria for every living organism in your system.

I've kept healthy and colorful Acropora systems for 20 years and have never dosed bacteria as a food source.

I've tried keeping an SPS tank without fish. It was a miserable experience. I am sure it has been done before, but I will never try it again.

Does anyone have first hand knowledge of long term SPS success without fish?

Not trying to derail this interesting bacteria thread; just proposing that the value of poop generated bacteria is big.

 

[SeaDweller]

I am glad you have been very successful with your acros and your post does make sense, but you are not the recommended reefer the OP is considering to take this thread into consideration. I believe this thread is for the reefer with no other viable reason their sps are not doing as well as they think they should. If all else fails, try bacteria.

True, but he’s simply promoting this one statement that I feel is fact:
“Corals take in ammonium and urea directly from fish...........if anyone wants a healthier system just have enough fish and feed them well. There will also be plenty of nitrogen available.

The poop has plenty of P04 that passes through the fish and promotes bacterial growth. There will be plenty of bacteria for every living organism in your system.”

ive said it plenty of times in this thread that most of us, including Anthony, feed a ton to our fish. i even pointed out that Anthony feeds his fish 8-10 times a day when he himself didn’t even mention it. So again, is it the bacteria or more so simply one‘s experience? I’d argue it’s the latter, still.