Why chloride?

[TokenReefer]

Excuse my ignorance in the subject of chemistry (I don't even know if this is a logical question to ask), but since this vinyl chloride spill, I'm trying to learn more about chloride. My main question is, why is the chloride ion used so much in chemistry/chemicals? What properties make it such a widely used ion?

This isn't necessarily reef related and may be too much to answer on a message board, but this board gives me access to really smart people in the chemistry field so I figured I'd ask here . If there's a good read on it, I'd be happy for a pointer in that direction. Thank you

 

[TokenReefer]

Sodium chloride is table salt and is obviously not toxic (except perhaps at extraordinary levels)

Vinyl chloride is toxic I'm gathering. But why? Is it the vinyl portion?

Trying to learn...

 

[vetteguy53081]

Excuse my ignorance in the subject of chemistry (I don't even know if this is a logical question to ask), but since this vinyl chloride spill, I'm trying to learn more about chloride. My main question is, why is the chloride ion used so much in chemistry/chemicals? What properties make it such a widely used ion?

This isn't necessarily reef related and may be too much to answer on a message board, but this board gives me access to really smart people in the chemistry field so I figured I'd ask here . If there's a good read on it, I'd be happy for a pointer in that direction. Thank you

Its a different chloride and its highest risk is inhalation similar to second hand smoke inhalation. This type of chloride responsible for various cancers at high exposure including leukemia, lung cancer, brain cancer and liver disease as well as cancer.

 

[Fish Styx]

Chloride is a halogen member of group 17, and as such, is a salt with 7 valence electrons in two varying orbits. This makes their electrons highly appealing for bonding (affinity) and as such, are highly ionic / oxidizing.

When bonded, Chlorine / Chloride (Cl) is chemically inert, but rather becomes part of a new compound. In fact, it is one of the most abundant chemicals in the human body. Take regular table salt, for example, or sodium Chloride (NaCl). If you put pure sodium (Na) in your mouth, your head would literally burst into flames and explode due to its violent exothermic reaction with water (H2O). Likewise, pure chlorine gas would also kill you. Put them together and they make your food taste better (high blood pressure not withstanding).

It is the arrangement of separate elements and how they are bonded that impact or affect your body. Some harmless or beneficial, others highly toxic. In the case of vinyl chloride, its toxicity stems from how it binds to hepatic DNA.

 

[TokenReefer]

This makes their electrons highly appealing for bonding (affinity) and as such, are highly ionic / oxidizing.

When bonded, Chlorine / Chloride (Cl) is chemically inert and harmless

OK so it's ease of bonding makes it attractive to use I gather. I can understand that..

Chloride is simply anything bonded with chlorine? And depending on what it's bonded with determines its toxicity?

 

[Fish Styx]

OK so it's ease of bonding makes it attractive to use I gather. I can understand that..

Chloride is simply anything bonded with chlorine? And depending on what it's bonded with determines its toxicity?

Essentially, chlorine is the halogen element, and chloride is the bonded chlorine. It is how the elements are arranged, and in what quantities, in compounds that determine their characteristics.

Think of them like words and punctuation in language. Arranged one way sends a particular message, but arranged in another the same words can have a different connotation entirely.

For example:

Edit: example removed due to inappropriate language. I offer my apologies if it offended anyone, as that was not my intent.

Namaste.

 

[TokenReefer]

Think of them like words and punctuation in language. Arranged one way sends a particular message, but arranged in another the same words can have a different connotation entirely.

For example:

I want to help my uncle, build a house.

Vs.

I want to help my uncle build a house.

Hahaha fantastic example and way to explain it to a layman such as myself!

 

[Fish Styx]

Hahaha fantastic example and way to explain it to a layman such as myself!

Namaste.

 

[rtparty]

Essentially, chlorine is the halogen element, and chloride is the bonded chlorine. It is how the elements are arranged, and in what quantities, in compounds that determine their characteristics.

Think of them like words and punctuation in language. Arranged one way sends a particular message, but arranged in another the same words can have a different connotation entirely.

For example:

I want to help my uncle, Jack off a horse.

Vs.

I want to help my uncle jack off a horse.

The analogy is wrong in so many ways. Even the punctuation is incorrect and doesn’t change the sentence.

A much better and correct analogy is:

Let’s eat Grandpa!

vs

Let’s eat, Grandpa!

 

[Fish Styx]

The analogy is wrong in so many ways. Even the punctuation is incorrect and doesn’t change the sentence.

A much better and correct analogy is:

Let’s eat Grandpa!

vs

Let’s eat, Grandpa!

Go back and read it again.

 

[rtparty]

Go back and read it again.

Capitalize Jack and then we know it’s a person’s name

 

[Fish Styx]

Capitalize Jack and then we know it’s a person’s name

It is capitalized in the first sentence. Again, go back and read it again.

 

[JimWelsh]

I want to help my uncle jack off a horse.

I see moderation in your future!

 

[Fish Styx]

I see moderation in your future!

Yeah, I was moderated. Rightly so, I might add. I sometimes forget my audience... That being said, my syntax and grammar, pre moderation, was impeccable.

Namaste.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’ll take a stab at explaining some things.

Chloride in vinyl chloride is nothing like chloride in seawater or sodium chloride.

In vinyl chloride, it is just a way of naming an organic molecule (vinyl) that has a chlorine atom covalently attached to it. The vinyl and chloride do not separate from one another when it dissolved. It’s a single entity and the toxicity comes from the whole entity, not the parts.

Chloride salts such as sodium chloride are readily manufactured or mined, are usually pretty soluble, and when dissolved in water, the metal (sodium) and the chloride go their separate ways.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Sodium chloride:

vinyl chloride:

 

[TokenReefer]

I’ll take a stab at explaining some things.

Chloride in vinyl chloride is nothing like chloride in seawater or sodium chloride.

In vinyl chloride, it is just a way of naming an organic molecule (vinyl) that has a chlorine atom covalently attached to it. The vinyl and chloride do not separate from one another when it dissolved. It’s a single entity and the toxicity comes from the whole entity, not the parts.

Chloride salts such as sodium chloride are readily manufactured or mined, are usually pretty soluble, and when dissolved in water, the metal (sodium) and the chloride go their separate ways.

Sodium chloride:

vinyl chloride:

Ah. So the new material as a whole that's created is toxic, not just the chlorine part (chlorine is non toxic as was stated, which is new to me). I think I'm making better sense of it now.

Thank you Randy for chiming in, and others as well

I guess I've always wrongly associated chlorine toxicity with na/ca hypochlorite as all I've had experience with is Pool additives and those can be very harsh at certain levels

 

[Dan_P]

Excuse my ignorance in the subject of chemistry (I don't even know if this is a logical question to ask), but since this vinyl chloride spill, I'm trying to learn more about chloride. My main question is, why is the chloride ion used so much in chemistry/chemicals? What properties make it such a widely used ion?

I suggest a slight modification to your question, “why is chlorine found in so many chemical compounds?”

For one reason, it is cheap and plentiful. We are not going to run out. And luckily, it has the chemical properties that make it very useful. I think you are going to have a very interesting investigation.

 

[TokenReefer]

Years ago in the town I grew up in there was a explosion at a pool supplier. At the time all that was blamed was chlorine but perhaps it was what was bonded to the chlorine instead. Sort of deraing here but I wonder what could have caused that...

 

[TokenReefer]

I suggest a slight modification to your question, “why is chlorine found in so many chemical compounds?”

For one reason, it is cheap and plentiful. We are not going to run out. And luckily, it has the chemical properties that make it very useful. I think you are going to have a very interesting investigation.

Yes I agree, you've stated it better than myself. That was actually going to be another question. Why chlorine and is it a cost/quantity thing. You beat me to it. Thanks Dan!