Why do EXTREME fixes seem to be the suggested go to on online forums?

[VermontReefs]

I agree with the OP. My big issue is with the reefers who dump chem after chem in their tank trying to mitigate an issue that’s not even real lol. Chasing numbers with chemicals is my biggest pet peeve. I’m hopeful that as time goes on those reefers will realize utilizing nature’s remedies is the only way to prolonged success. Natural solutions + time + patience = Success

 

[Dolphins18]

I agree with the OP. My big issue is with the reefers who dump chem after chem in their tank trying to mitigate an issue that’s not even real lol. Chasing numbers with chemicals is my biggest pet peeve. I’m hopeful that as time goes on those reefers will realize utilizing nature’s remedies is the only way to prolonged success. Natural solutions + time + patience = Success

A new reefer with the proper equipment and salt can learn from 2 clowns and gsp. Theres nothing wrong with that.
And with that they LEARN the hobby... truly learn it and understand.
It isn't their fault, they don't know better, I just wish it (the chemical fixes) wasn't so flagrantly advertised.
Thank you

 

[mdb_talon]

Why don't you just kill them? Please explain.. what do you want from me? What is your method, it sounds like you have an issue with them..

Lol it is clear there is nothing of value i can get from you so i want nothing other than maybe an acceptance that your way is not the only way. FYI i dont need to kill any in my DT...because i take "extreme" measures now to ensure they dont get there in the first place because they are a horrible pest to have...which was my original point you had a problem with.

 

[Dolphins18]

Lol it is clear there is nothing of value i can get from you so i want nothing other than maybe an acceptance that your way is not the only way. FYI i dont need to kill any in my DT...because i take "extreme" measures now to ensure they dont get there in the first place because they are a horrible pest to have...which was my original point you had a problem with.

I am glad it worked for you. My point is it is not that difficult. I am sorry to tell you that.

It's for new people and not to deter them from the hobby, do you want them to think if they see an aiptasia they need to go thru what you went thru?
Because they don't need to, its not true, at all quite frankly.

 

[Zakery Murray]

Is it bad that i am enjoying you guys argue on this thread.

 

[Theulli]

And with that they LEARN the hobby... truly learn it and understand.
It isn't there fault, they don't know better, I just wish it (the chemical fixes) wasn't so flagrantly advertised.
Thank you

I came from having a freshwater tank and reefing is sooooo much worse on this front. After six months I had to do a purge of all the dumb bottles of stuff I had talked myself into needing at the beginning. It would be fascinating to see who has more sustained success - people who constantly dose chems to balance params or people who don’t even bother testing their params.

 

[Theulli]

I'll take some extreme advice on GSP. Lol

put it in my tank, it will inexplicable self immolate in two days. I am the Black Death of gsp and I wish I knew why

 

[Dolphins18]

I came from having a freshwater tank and reefing is sooooo much worse on this front. After six months I had to do a purge of all the dumb bottles of stuff I had talked myself into needing at the beginning. It would be fascinating to see who has more sustained success - people who constantly dose chems to balance params or people who don’t even bother testing their params.

I dose things like calcium and alk, those are essential, depending on the tank you have.

But its the straight the chemicals that get me.
Peroxide? *** they said it was bad for humans a few years ago.
Or the strip your tank for 3 months rofl. These people join the hobby to enjoy it, not to watch their investment sit empty for measures that are generally not necessary. Lets just be realistic.
Thank you

 

[Dolphins18]

put it in my tank, it will inexplicable self immolate in two days. I am the Black Death of gsp and I wish I knew why

I bet more difficult corals do well. its not always a bad sign, . You have algae growing maybe a fuge?
Makes it more difficult for gsp.
gsp likes a little nitrates

 

[Theulli]

I dose things like calcium and alk, those are essential, depending on the tank you have.

But its the straight the chemicals that get me.
Peroxide? *** they said it was bad for humans a few years ago.
Or the strip your tank for half 3 months rofl. These people join the hobby to enjoy it, not to watch their investment sit empty for measures that are generally not necessary. Lets just be realistic.
Thank you

though, stripping down my tank and relocating to a QT that “I may as well keep running in case I need it later” is how I snuck another tank into the house so there are benefits

 

[Jedi1199]

I feel the problem the OP has is the radical "quick fix". This is a hobby of patience and learning. Every situation is different. The quick fix methods may work today, but do they actually address the problem long term? If you dose X to cure Y and Y comes back in 6 weeks, what have you done but spend money? Isn't it better to understand why you have your problem and then address it for a long term stable and sustainable solution?

 

[mdb_talon]

I came from having a freshwater tank and reefing is sooooo much worse on this front. After six months I had to do a purge of all the dumb bottles of stuff I had talked myself into needing at the beginning. It would be fascinating to see who has more sustained success - people who constantly dose chems to balance params or people who don’t even bother testing their params.

Either can be sucessful depending what n what you are growing and your definition of success. If you want a healthy LPS or SPS dominant tank that is growing and sucessful longterm though dosing is necessary. Certainly not on day 2 if you starting with some frags.

I am not a believer that things like aminos and everything is worthwhile, but if it works for them more power to them. For me calc/alk/mg going to get dosed regularly though. I will also use chemicals at times as appropriate. Lanthium chloride is a favorite of mine if my phosphate spikes. There are certainly other approaches...however again that approach works for me and very cheap and simple.

 

[Dolphins18]

Either can be sucessful depending what n what you are growing and your definition of success. If you want a healthy LPS or SPS dominant tank that is growing and sucessful longterm though dosing is necessary. Certainly not on day 2 if you starting with some frags.

I am not a believer that things like aminos and everything is worthwhile, but if it works for them more power to them. For me calc/alk/mg going to get dosed regularly though. I will also use chemicals at times as appropriate. Lanthium chloride is a favorite of mine if my phosphate spikes. There are certainly other approaches...however again that approach works for me and very cheap and simple.

I've been known to use GFO and several other "chemical" (cchemi pure,always) methods.
I will say I am not a fan of nopox or similar methods. I tried them for a while, and if one wants dinos, thats a sure fire way to get them excited.

But GFO, I've ran it, always very important to start slow with this, as if you let it strip your system you'll have a bigger problem on your hands.

 

[Montiman]

There are certainly more than 1 way to keep a reef. What I have found is that the method you choose makes more sense when you have your goal in mind.

I am a reefer who wants a slice of the reef. Diseases and pests are part of the reef and are managed by natural means so I lean into natural cures.

If you want a coral collection rather than a piece of the reef you are inherently wanting something less natural. In this case artificial methods may make more sense.

What I try to keep in mind when helping new aquarists is that we are dealing with human beings who make mistakes. I don't think it is wise to instruct inexperienced individuals to remove all fish set up a separate tank and treat with a variety of medications for months. There is just so much room for error. I also don't think beginners can effectively QT fish or corals in a manner that will eliminate the introduction of Aiptasia or Ich. Given that pests will be introduced it is better to teach beginners how to manage them.

Beginners need to experience success with margin for error. The older tried and true methods of patience natural predators and good basic reefkeeping allow for beginners to make the mistakes we all make of missing that Aiptasia or introducing a fish with ich without completely restarting their tank and loosing months of progress.

If they are successful for a few years then they can try things differently on their next tank and be better prepared to identify problems earlier on.

 

[terraincognita]

I've seen a few post like that, but I generally try to ease people into small changes or even just undoing changes they've made.

For every post I see telling people to drastically change something there's many other Vets here that always tend to come in and speak up in the opposite.

I really don't see to many post with dramatic advice though? Maybe I dont read through enough.

 

[ImaFlippinDolphin]

Chemical solutions are a help for some situations. Unfortunately gone are the days of shooting over to the lfs and hand picking live rock pieces with loads of biodiversity. Having been in the hobby of that time then taking a break for 15 years and coming back, technology has improved but the biodiversity is what has taken the biggest hit. I look at the challenges I've had since I started back in and it truly is more challenging today due to sterile conditions in our tanks. There's many ways to reef for sure, and problem solving has just as many ways.

 

[mdb_talon]

Chemical solutions are a help for some situations. Unfortunately gone are the days of shooting over to the lfs and hand picking live rock pieces with loads of biodiversity. Having been in the hobby of that time then taking a break for 15 years and coming back, technology has improved but the biodiversity is what has taken the biggest hit. I look at the challenges I've had since I started back in and it truly is more challenging today due to sterile conditions in our tanks. There's many ways to reef for sure, and problem solving has just as many ways.

I noticed at my local stores over the years the definition of "live rock" seems to have changed. Years ago i could rely on that meant it has at minimum been in their live rock culturing tanks for several months or more likely had been in a reef system for years. I find noe it is actually cheaper...but it probably just means it is some rock they threw into their vat of saltwater the day or week before and call it live. So mcu more to "live" rock than some nitrifying bacteria.

 

[Dolphins18]

I noticed at my local stores over the years the definition of "live rock" seems to have changed. Years ago i could rely on that meant it has at minimum been in their live rock culturing tanks for several months or more likely had been in a reef system for years. I find noe it is actually cheaper...but it probably just means it is some rock they threw into their vat of saltwater the day or week before and call it live. So mcu more to "live" rock than some nitrifying bacteria.

Yes definitely true. They seem to color it purple but it is not live at all, just in saltwater with some or real live no rock. I like to get it from the ocean Gulfliverock is usually where I get live from. All sorts of critters

But I often start dry these days
I am Sorry about my grammer my cousin gave me a gummy... a legal one earlier

Also edit others have suggested many good LR sites Tb aquatics and many other good suggestions for LR here, usually much better than the LFS will have.

 

[terraincognita]

Reading through this thread more there are a few things I'd like to add.

1. The biggest ultimate issue is that the OP's asking for "advice" have arrived at problems they themselves have created by not educating themselves prior to jumping in.

I myself when I first started reefing made tons of mistakes that unfortunately I traversed on my own for the most part. I wasn't on any forums mainly because I didn't know they existed.

This may be undemocratic and not "PC" but to me, if you decide to jump out of an airplane, without having studied up first about skydiving and proper parachute packing/checking and procedure. When you splat on the ground. Good riddance.

The more empathetic side of me of course wants to try to steer everyone with problems in the right direction. But Darwin's Theory and survival of the fittest is a natural cycle.

If certain hobbyist just can't take it upon themselves to properly educate themselves, and instead jump at the first extreme advice they're given. They'll eventually fail until they pick themselves up by their own boot straps and really put their noses to the books and articles to get the TRUTH about it all.

If they don't, they won't have long term happiness and success, and it'll be 1 less reefer in the hobby. Which again, is that many less fish and coral killed needlessly due to their inability or rather unwillingness to do a proper study.

2. We need to give the people who give good advice more credit. Give them more likes and more reactions. As a newb starting in the hobby, if you see someone with 2,000 posts and 2,000 likes giving advice.

And another with 3,000 posts and 10,000 likes giving advice, you're probably more likely to go with the guy who seems to give better advice. It's only natural as well.

By coming together as a community and supporting the one's who lead down a path of truth, and (not shunning) but not giving as much recognition to those recommending extremes. We ourselves on this forum can combat it. Anytime you're in a thread and you see someone you know or someone who often gives good advice, just give them a quick like.

1 click is all it takes .

That's my 2 cents.

 

[Dolphins18]

Reading through this thread more there are a few things I'd like to add.

1. The biggest ultimate issue is that the OP's asking for "advice" have arrived at problems they themselves have created by not educating themselves prior to jumping in.

I myself when I first started reefing made tons of mistakes that unfortunately I traversed on my own for the most part. I wasn't on any forums mainly because I didn't know they existed.

This may be undemocratic and not "PC" but to me, if you decide to jump out of an airplane, without having studied up first about skydiving and proper parachute packing/checking and procedure. When you splat on the ground. Good riddance.

The more empathetic side of me of course wants to try to steer everyone with problems in the right direction. But Darwin's Theory and survival of the fittest is a natural cycle.

If certain hobbyist just can't take it upon themselves to properly educate themselves, and instead jump at the first extreme advice they're given. They'll eventually fail until they pick themselves up by their own boot straps and really put their noses to the books and articles to get the TRUTH about it all.

If they don't, they won't have long term happiness and success, and it'll be 1 less reefer in the hobby. Which again, is that many less fish and coral killed needlessly due to their inability or rather unwillingness to do a proper study.

2. We need to give the people who give good advice more credit. Give them more likes and more reactions. As a newb starting in the hobby, if you see someone with 2,000 posts and 2,000 likes giving advice.

And another with 3,000 posts and 10,000 likes giving advice, you're probably more likely to go with the guy who seems to give better advice. It's only natural as well.

By coming together as a community and supporting the one's who lead down a path of truth, and (not shunning) but not giving as much recognition to those recommending extremes. We ourselves on this forum can combat it. Anytime you're in a thread and you see someone you know or someone who often gives good advice, just give them a quick like.

1 click is all it takes .

That's my 2 cents.

I completely agree with this post, I learned thru trials and tribulations, But I see steps suggested that I do not seem fair or natural sometimes.
I joined the forums long after being in the hobby, I only get frustrated by what I see posted sometimes!
Thank you