Why do EXTREME fixes seem to be the suggested go to on online forums?

IKD

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to both of you.

I think one point OP is trying to make is, when you see 1 or 2 aiptasia in your tank. The thing to do is not FREAK OUT, and nuke your tank. He's not saying that you're wrong mdb_talon. But that there's more than 1 way to skin the cat.

When he said would you bomb your house, I think he literally meant, you see a cockroach in the bathroom, so you move everyone out the same day and throw an insect bomb in? Maybe you do, but surely the first time you studied on how to handle insects you probably looked at a lot more options than just bombing.

The OP's point mainly is that the proper thing to do is gather information, research, and make an informed decision for yourself on what you think is best. That may take a day or two. And what you decide on, may not be what everyone else wants to do. Maybe it is to bomb your house. But most likely there's other options too, and he wishes newer reefers would take a look and study a bit more at all the info.

If you think it's better to bomb your house, instead of laying cockroach traps around, finding the nest, and exterminating them like that. Then to each their own. There's 1,000,000 ways to skin a cat. But as long as you have studied at least 100,000 of the ways you'll feel better about the decision you're making. I think that's the main point the OP was trying to make.

Ripping a tank down with 2 Aiptasia and rebuilding it and throwing out the rock with aiptasia, boiling your rock, and sand, yeah that will 100% handle the aiptasia.

But like the OP says, 15 years ago, most reefers took painful years to get a mature tank, so the idea of doing something like that was absurd. A lot of reefers now-days are doing skip-cycles and instant bacto boosts. Along with that, the learning curve changed.

Going from starting a reef tank, to adding coral 1 year later, you have a lot of time to study, read and figure out information about reefing.

Now-a-days people are adding corals in weeks. And then trying to ram that same 1 year of info into a few threads on R2R.

There is something to be said that no matter how much you study and read and look at, nothing at all is exchangeable for 15-20 years of experience in a hobby.

To a lot of old salt heads, 1 or 2 aiptasia isn't even an eye blink. But there's so many other horror stories about it. including from some of the old salt heads.

It doesn't help when someone who's been reefing for 15 years posts a photo of one of their tanks overrun with aiptasia without giving the full backstory including their lazy and lackluster husbandry that led to that point.

So instead you end up with people thinking unless they kill it within 15 minutes, they're gonna have the same thing, when in reality it probably took months before major spreading even occurred.

Again, 1,000,000 to skin a cat. You don't have to agree on how to skin it. But I get the OP's point for sure.

I think if people posted threads with a lot more "This is what I did and it worked for me but there's other solutions"

Or "In my experience." Or "When I dealt with this" instead of jsut "This is what you should do" It gives a lot less of a "didactic I know best" attitude. When I don't think anyone on this forum (or at least 90%) are egotistical enough to think they know better than anyone else :).
Great post. Maybe R2R should have a disclaimer on every post that says “The opinions expressed in this post are solely from the poster and in no way reflect the opinions of every other member on this forum.” :)
 

Cdeg

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Agree to an extent.

My almost 3 year old 16 gal nano was just shut down due to aptasia. A few here or there that showed up 6 months into starting that system. Turned into a year and half of a fight that was ultimately lost. The tank was thriving until almost a year ago. They took over the tank, killed most of the coral, even had my clowns secluded to a corner where they weren't.

Multiple attempts and fixes caused temporary relief with more spread later.


Lemon juice/boiling water
Aptasia x
F aiptasia
Manjano wand
Berghia 30.. 8 months no chemical treatment to let them do their thing. They were still in there and still breeding until I broke down the tank.
3 peppermint shrimp
Physical removal scooping out of sand and scrapping off glass

Tank was too small for any fish that would possibly eat them.
 

reefinatl

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It is only frustrating because sometimes people over complicate this hobby for newcomers, scaring them into thinking they have something horrible that is really very normal.
That right there is what blows my mind. Brand new tanks setup with 4 dosing routines and being told to start vibrant over some basic GHA on a 2 month old dry rock start. Good lord just toss in some live rock let the cycle do its thing add snails and then a couple little clowns and enjoy the ride for a few months. When you get that down then you can start building on the success. There is zero need to do anything other than waterchanges and livestock management, pushing QT on newbs I do agree with, for the first year in my opinion.

This hobby is not easy and while not the most expensive hobby I fool with, guns & cars cost more, it is probably the easiest to lose thousands of dollars nearly instantly in. There seems to be this constant drive of newbies to set up a razors edge sps tank before they've managed really fight any sort of adversity or propagate easy corals. I cannot imagine battling valonia and cyano in a mostly dry tank while numbers chasing and watching my $100 1" acro frags browning out as a newb.
 

reefinatl

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What in the world is a natural method for removing aiptasia? Chants and listening to Yanni at high volumes?

Most of the peppermint shrimp sold at reef stores are not the aiptasia eaters variety (I've never had one touch aiptasia). So I'm assuming the OPs natural solutions is to mail order critters that have been yanked from the ocean and die once they've solved the problem. Sounds "extreme" to me.

For a tech orientated hobby I'm often astounded at the lack of fundamental common sense in this forum. We still have crayon eaters claiming LEDs cant grow corals and a psychosis of reefers who need to buy baking soda pre dissolved in water. We don't have extreme answers, we just have some challenged people who shouldn't be giving advice.
I've always been a superglue and epoxy guy, but catch it early on aiptasia. Never seen it fail and its easier than injecting with the Chem of the day. The LED and Baking Soda water comment made me chuckle.
 
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Dolphins18

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Don't apologize off the hop.... cause we here are with you. Post of the week.
Thank you!
I am just glad it’s being talked on & seeing people share similar concerns. Happy Sunday my fellow reef and fish keepers

catching up on the responses with a coffee..mmm love sundays!
 

Tamberav

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I would rather see extreme measures then the crap on Facebook about putting sautéed garlic in your sock for velvet

Also sometimes they are needed... many people try to take an easier approach for major issues and end up with dead fish.

Someone posted about a coral beauty with a very infected eye on Facebook and I told them how to treat with antibiotic dips and another poster said that’s too stressful and to just feed vitamins.

Well the coral beauty died to its infection. If a person ends up with a bad case on pneumonia... sometimes you need to go to the hospital for IV antibiotics instead of chicken noodle soup but you also shouldn’t over react and go to the ER with a paper cut either.
 

Aardvark1134

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Well you also have to remember 3 things
1) If you try a normal level fix and it doesn't work by the time you realize it's not going to work it may be to late even for something extreme (velvet)
2) Most reefers only know and use what they read, they don't like new fixes unless tons of people are supporting the idea already saying it works
3) Half the people giving advise have never managed to keep a tank up and without a crash for more than 2 years.
 

ca1ore

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someone actually posted a poll a few weeks ago asking this question and the results were very surprising to me. More than half the responses were over 15 years in the hobby. 2 years or less was a very very small %.

Maybe the newbs just didn’t want to answer that poll, but seems like the majority here are experienced reefers.
Interesting, I don’t recall that poll. I’d be extremely wary about assigning any statistical significance to the results though. If it is true that a high percentage of R2R participants are 15 years plus, then that’s rather disappointing. I have always felt that experience does not necessarily equate to expertise. Somebody mentioned before that you should identify the handful of reefers that seem to know of what they speak .... I agree completely.
 

reefinatl

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Interesting, I don’t recall that poll. I’d be extremely wary about assigning any statistical significance to the results though. If it is true that a high percentage of R2R participants are 15 years plus, then that’s rather disappointing. I have always felt that experience does not necessarily equate to expertise. Somebody mentioned before that you should identify the handful of reefers that seem to know of what they speak .... I agree completely.
Picking one methodology from a small group of people is certainly best. Find "a" method that works and do it for your first year. After getting back in it I'd say this move to all dry rock is a big net negative. Every newb is either scared to death of a bad crab or an aiptasia. They are totally willing to attempt a 5k sps dominate setup and flame out after a year because they don't have the basics down. I'm 100% pro liverock for a first tank, no way would I want to stick with this hobby seeing how awful these dryrock barebottom startups go in the first year.

I do agree with pushing QT methods hard with new people, disease seems much more prevalent now. On the fence about treatment for ich outbreaks though. If they are sticking with hardy fish like a beginner should maybe hold off and run qt/fallow during the inevitable tank upgrade after that first successful year or two.
 

Cdeg

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This is an online forum I can answer a poll that I have had reef tanks for 50 years...but since I am 44 years old...that's probably not true.
It's all depending on the level of expertise.

A person that is a chemist, or marine biologist with 5 years or less of experience, I would likely take their advice over a person being in the hobby for 40 years.

For example myself... I'm a mortgage banking professional, been in my career for almost 10 years. I have realtors working in this field 20 + years, and 70 year old clients that have bought many homes before, that try to tell me how mortgage regulations, and guidelines work on regular basis. Doesn't make them right just makes them opinionated.
 

reefinatl

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It's all depending on the level of expertise.

A person that is a chemist, or marine biologist with 5 years or less of experience, I would likely take their advice over a person being in the hobby for 40 years.

For example myself... I'm a mortgage banking professional, been in my career for almost 10 years. I have realtors working in this field 20 + years, and 70 year old clients that have bought many homes before, that try to tell me how mortgage regulations, and guidelines work on regular basis. Doesn't make them right just makes them opinionated.
Land Surveyor here, can we collectively agree to not mention real estate agents again unless the no adult language rules are repealed.
 

Jekyl

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Land Surveyor here, can we collectively agree to not mention real estate agents again unless the no adult language rules are repealed.
My good friend is a very successful real estate agent. Also one of the dumbest people I know.
 
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Dolphins18

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Well you also have to remember 3 things
1) If you try a normal level fix and it doesn't work by the time you realize it's not going to work it may be to late even for something extreme (velvet)
2) Most reefers only know and use what they read, they don't like new fixes unless tons of people are supporting the idea already saying it works
3) Half the people giving advise have never managed to keep a tank up and without a crash for more than 2 years.
Velvet is one of those things that of course can not be taken lightly. One of my great fears!
I agree with 3, a lot of times I feel information is relayed from one source to another, while it is great with good info, it happens all to often with not so good info!
 

Cdeg

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Land Surveyor here, can we collectively agree to not mention real estate agents again unless the no adult language rules are repealed.
My good friend is a very successful real estate agent. Also one of the dumbest people I know.
unfortunately it's the most highly regarded part of the transaction. The same person that could sell you a sofa, or a car, can equally accomplish their contributions.
 

KrisReef

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People need to keep in mind this is a public forum, you get people who this is their first tank and have little to no experience, to people have been in this hobby for many many years. You will always get different answers, the answers may not be right, every single time, but people in the end are usually just trying to help you out.
Yup. Some of us are getting older and have been at this a long time. We should have it perfected but somedays I forget what I am talking about. A couple of folks pointed out an error I made on here last week. I think it was probably the first one.

What are your parameters?

black and white animation GIF by weinventyou
 

Paul B

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I cringe when I see almost all the advice people give when someone sees a spot, aiptasia, cyano, torn fin, pop eye, bubble algae etc.
I am surprised any noob on any forum is able to keep a tank any amont of time with the drastic measures that are suggested for mostly normal things we find in our tanks.

I occasionally see a spot, I have some aiptasia, cyano, hair algae, bubble algae, dino's, pop eye etc.
Those are all normal things we find in the sea.

I don't give advice for those things unless someone PMs me and then I usually tel them to forget about it and go out to dinner. You can't cure natural things. :cool:
 

reefinatl

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I cringe when I see almost all the advice people give when someone sees a spot, aiptasia, cyano, torn fin, pop eye, bubble algae etc.
I am surprised any noob on any forum is able to keep a tank any amont of time with the drastic measures that are suggested for mostly normal things we find in our tanks.

I occasionally see a spot, I have some aiptasia, cyano, hair algae, bubble algae, dino's, pop eye etc.
Those are all normal things we find in the sea.

I don't give advice for those things unless someone PMs me and then I usually tel them to forget about it and go out to dinner. You can't cure natural things. :cool:
Paul, I recently got into the hobby again after a break. I was so happy to see you are still around. I was active on 'central back in 06-12 era and used to follow a lot of your more hands off approach. It worked great for me, had a nice easy LPS tank that wasn't TOTM material but pests were in check, stable, and good growth. I was very close to doing a R-UGF this time around. It seems like such a no brainer approach but nobody does it, and I chickened out this go around myself.

Oh, and put a bottle in it is comedy gold anytime you bring it up.
 

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