Why Do We Continue To Buy Frags?

[NS Mike D]

I too dislike the current trend - seems to me people call their tanks display tanks for no reason at all.

Back in the days (not that long ago really) things were labeled "show size" or "display piece"

Most people today dont have display tanks, they are simply mislabeled frag tanks.

not to confuse newbies stumbling on this post, but display tank is a term commonly used to distinguish from our sumps, quarantines and other tanks kept out of viewing.


- and to me, that is a perfectly good reason to call them display tanks, contrary to said opinion. :)

 

[Adamantium]

Me neither......that 250.00 a head for the golden torch was over the top..... beautiful piece.....but not for me. LOL!

Where'd you see that? That's actually a decent(ish) price for that hahaha

 

[HMpops]

There are more than sufficient very nice frags available in the $5- $20 range through my local reef club, that I needn't take the risk of a high end coral frag, but I will never judge a hobbyist who does. Just like the BudMillerCoors drinker might not understand why I pay north of $8 for a craft beer I wouldn't knock a hobbyist for paying $250 for a frag. We all make choices with how we spend our discretionary money.

As for frags v colonies, it's simple economics. Rent and time are not cheap. If you want a colony, expect to pay the seller for the rent in his/her tank, the use of equipment and the expensive supplies, electric and of course the sellers time while that frag grows into a colony. Colonies just don't appear (unless you want ones ripped from a reef).

Over time, the aqua culture will continue to become more efficient and more growers will enter the market so that supply equals demand and profits will narrow to a small percent over cost. And some sellers will continue to strive to provide higher quality so they can charge more for the discerning buyers in the market as well as unusual rare specimens chasing "economic profit" (ie high margins).

Agree completely! First, I'm a business owner and this is simple economics 101... I also happen to live in Orlando, home of WWC. I know for a fact, just here in Orlando, there are other companies building new LARGE farms NOW! Building their systems, cycling, building inventory colonies. Everyone in the business knows, or I should say...should know, the wild supply has changed and will continue to change.
Doesn't matter what business you're in, supply and demand will always dictate pricing. As supply, new farms, increases prices will go down. Let the best farms win!!!

 

[BZOFIQ]

not to confuse newbies stumbling on this post, but display tank is a term commonly used to distinguish from our sumps, quarantines and other tanks kept out of viewing.


- and to me, that is a perfectly good reason to call them display tanks, contrary to said opinion. :)

A 180 gallon tank full of plugs is NOT a display tank - perhaps in the future.

 

[Hermie]

1. a frag is cheaper, so easier for me to justify buying
2. I can't guarantee anything I put in my tank will survive, so I'd rather lose a frag than a colony
3. like others have said, it's a journey that's enjoyable. unlike buying a full grown tree and planting it in your yard, buying a frag is like buying a seed or raising the tree from a cutting.

 

[HCl+NaHO=]

When I started in this hobby 15+ years ago I would go to my LFS and purchase nice sized colonies/corals at reasonable prices.

About 2 weeks ago I gave my Granddaughter about half the corals in my 180gl to stock the 50gl tank I had given her. So I went out looking for new pieces to stock my tank. 95% of everything is little bitty frags on plugs at inflated prices. I am of the opinion and experience that buying frags, for the most part, is a sucker's game. The attrition rate is horrible. Yet most hobbyists continue to purchase frags because that is what is available. But why is that the only game in town? If we, as buyers, stopped buying overpriced frags the retailers would be forced to reduce the price or increase the size. Here is an example: I went to my LFS and asked if he could get me a nice Blasto colony, (BTW 4 heads on a plug IS NOT a colony), and he took me over to his display tank and told me I could buy one of the 2 colonies he had. About 20 heads for $225. He then took me to his frag tank and showed me the same heads at $60 each and he has a constant turnover of them. I asked him why people would pay $60 a head and he told me that is what hobbyists have become conditioned to buying.

He has a handful of old-time customers like me who he tries to find bigger pieces for, but most people prefer to buy frags. There is another well known LFS near me who has basically stopped selling corals because he told me selling frags is just ripping his customers off and he doesn't need the money that bad.

So someone explain to me? What is the fascination with buying frags?

You weren’t buying acros colonies 15+ years ago from your LFS

 

[Sarah24!]

When I started in this hobby 15+ years ago I would go to my LFS and purchase nice sized colonies/corals at reasonable prices.

About 2 weeks ago I gave my Granddaughter about half the corals in my 180gl to stock the 50gl tank I had given her. So I went out looking for new pieces to stock my tank. 95% of everything is little bitty frags on plugs at inflated prices. I am of the opinion and experience that buying frags, for the most part, is a sucker's game. The attrition rate is horrible. Yet most hobbyists continue to purchase frags because that is what is available. But why is that the only game in town? If we, as buyers, stopped buying overpriced frags the retailers would be forced to reduce the price or increase the size. Here is an example: I went to my LFS and asked if he could get me a nice Blasto colony, (BTW 4 heads on a plug IS NOT a colony), and he took me over to his display tank and told me I could buy one of the 2 colonies he had. About 20 heads for $225. He then took me to his frag tank and showed me the same heads at $60 each and he has a constant turnover of them. I asked him why people would pay $60 a head and he told me that is what hobbyists have become conditioned to buying.

He has a handful of old-time customers like me who he tries to find bigger pieces for, but most people prefer to buy frags. There is another well known LFS near me who has basically stopped selling corals because he told me selling frags is just ripping his customers off and he doesn't need the money that bad.

So someone explain to me? What is the fascination with buying frags?

Hello,

You know I mentioned this same thing on another thread and I was very nice to the vendor. But they were selling aka collectors sps frags not even healed yet possibly one inch and yes there were maybe 18 could be more or less but wanted 4500. I simply said it was unethical and immoral and wow did I suddenly become the instant demon of the world. I agree with what your saying and it’s why I still buy st my lfs. I get small colonies cheaper than one inch stick frags of a frag. It makes it where those who don’t have much money impossible to enjoy the gifts of Mother Nature.

 

[NS Mike D]

Hello,

You know I mentioned this same thing on another thread and I was very nice to the vendor. But they were selling aka collectors sps frags not even healed yet possibly one inch and yes there were maybe 18 could be more or less but wanted 4500. I simply said it was unethical and immoral and wow did I suddenly become the instant demon of the world. I agree with what your saying and it’s why I still buy st my lfs. I get small colonies cheaper than one inch stick frags of a frag. It makes it where those who don’t have much money impossible to enjoy the gifts of Mother Nature.

There are a few posts in this thread alone that 100% disprove your statement there my friend. Just because there is a market for expensive frags doesn't mean there aren't beautiful corals that have become so common to aquaculture that we take them for granted, even treat them like garden weeds.

Be careful about siting outliers in the marketplace and use them as an example to blanket statement the hobby.

 

[Hermie]

NOW, I will say. There's a difference between a fully encrusted frag and a freshly cut piece...
I am absolutely sick of seeing "frags" that have not yet fully healed or are just barely stuck to the frag plug.

IMO, frags should be grown out some before they are offered for sale.


Not all frags are created equal.

 

[dadnjesse]

I think “every” post is an exaggeration. Perhaps look at my post history?

But I don’t like how the poster is trying to speak for everyone, including me. “Why do we....”. Hence the tone- because I certainly do NOT group myself with that line of thought.

I don’t want to buy colonies taken from reefs. I’d rather buy a single head, and grow it myself into a colony.

The person just started a conversation, that's what people do on forums.

 

[Silver14SS]

One of the wonderful things about this hobby is you control your spending, there's products and livestock available at every price point. Are the purpose of the almost daily price complaint threads to organize a hobby wide boycott? Make people who spend too much feel bad? Aside from finding a sympathetic ear, I'm genuinely curious what the hope is.

 

[happyhourhero]

I am late to this thread but I would buy frags over colonies of side by side for the same price, every single time.

It’s all about growing my own reef.

 

[fity2pounder]

If the LFS's don't chop the colonies into frags, the reefers they sell the colonies to will. The LFS's are just doing it themselves so they can maintain the business rather than letting the reefers make the money instead.

 

[mfrumkin]

Did you know Indo is closed and about 80% of the corals in the trade used to come from there? Now there is $200-$1000 colonies from Australia or Vietnam zoa rocks covered in pests. That's about it for colonies.

Frags are a good way to get diversity and aquacultured corals. Not sure why you say the attrition rate is horrible, we make thousands of frags a month and only lose a small percentage. We keep them until they are healed up and growing before offering them for sale.

And herein lies the problem. You make thousands of frags a month, those frags have to come from bigger pieces, so why not offer some bigger pieces? Because you make more money taking a $200 coral and fragging it down to 8 pieces you can sell for $50 each. Or how about this? I recently purchased a ricordea rock from an R2R vendor. It has six mushrooms and cost $90. Now I know the rock did not come like that, but the vendor took the time to create what to me is a stunning piece. So I will buy from him again.

As a retailer here's my question for you: I've been to your site. Your inventory and prices are on par with all the other retail online vendors. What differentiates you from all the other online retailers? Instead of making thousands of frags a month why not make only a 1,000 frags and offer some bigger pieces to clients who may be willing and able to purchase them. I would think the repeat customer would make up for the small loss in profit.

 

[newbie2014]

1. a frag is cheaper, so easier for me to justify buying
2. I can't guarantee anything I put in my tank will survive, so I'd rather lose a frag than a colony
3. like others have said, it's a journey that's enjoyable. unlike buying a full grown tree and planting it in your yard, buying a frag is like buying a seed or raising the tree from a cutting.

1 and 2 apply to me as well. I can't/don't want to spend >$100 on corals. The blasto colony that the OP mentioned would be out of my purchasing comfort even if it was only $100. I only jump at cheap and colorful corals. No thank to Aussie gold torch, bounce mushroom or anything that has a person's or company name on it, unless they're dirt cheap or free. I'm in this for enjoyment, not show off or business. Having TOTM is certainly not my goal.

 

[BZOFIQ]

I am late to this thread but I would buy frags over colonies of side by side for the same price, every single time.

It’s all about growing my own reef.

Growing your colonies is absolutely great but not when you start with 2 zoas on a plug.

 

[NS Mike D]

And herein lies the problem. You make thousands of frags a month, those frags have to come from bigger pieces, so why not offer some bigger pieces? Because you make more money taking a $200 coral and fragging it down to 8 pieces you can sell for $50 each. Or how about this? I recently purchased a ricordea rock from an R2R vendor. It has six mushrooms and cost $90. Now I know the rock did not come like that, but the vendor took the time to create what to me is a stunning piece. So I will buy from him again.

As a retailer here's my question for you: I've been to your site. Your inventory and prices are on par with all the other retail online vendors. What differentiates you from all the other online retailers? Instead of making thousands of frags a month why not make only a 1,000 frags and offer some bigger pieces to clients who may be willing and able to purchase them. I would think the repeat customer would make up for the small loss in profit.

If the LFS's don't chop the colonies into frags, the reefers they sell the colonies to will. The LFS's are just doing it themselves so they can maintain the business rather than letting the reefers make the money instead.

It's a business. If a colony is worth more as frags you frag it. The market is telling you that is what they want. If not, then you would be able to sell the colony at or above the sum of the frags. If you want colonies for less than the sum of the frags, the form a club.

Same for fragging it into small colonies, only if they are worth more than the sum of the frags.

The landlord and the utility companies aren't going to reduce their rates or wait for their money just so we can have colonies below market price.

 

[amoore311]

People saying colonies aren’t available have no idea what they are talking about.

My buddy is a VERY small operation and get 2-3 shipments a month from Cairns. He does 1/4 shipment frags and the rest are all colonies.

He has a green wall frogspawn easily as large as my forearm... $250

It’s easier to make money on frags, I would also like to see frags go to back to old school sizes though.

 

[29galreefer]

Large colonies are cool but they are straight from the ocean. Frags are usually from a mother colony or another tank and are therefore more sustainable. When buying large colonies you have to account for either the costs of wildly harvesting or the costs of growing a small colony into a large one.
Aquaculture>wild

 

[jfoster38122]

it seems fish and corals have gone up since I had my reef about a decade ago
I remember paying like 25 bux for a nice size yellow tang and now they are 50 bux even for silver dollar size ones
there's a lot more corals available now but yeah prices have gone up and size has gone down but I guess we did it to ourselves