Why Do We Continue To Buy Frags?

[NeutronMan]

Great article comparing the 911 to the RS7: https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...ces-audi-rs7-the-struggle-is-real-135641.html

Forget chores for today, I’m going driving
:-)

 

[Ike]

Go for the RS7 :)

See, Porsche is a middle class car now. One can go on down to the dealer and pick up a CPO for half price. Maintenance isn’t that bad either if you go to a good Indy. No status symbol there.

Now a Lambo or Ferrari is a bit different. While they don’t advertise to the Genpop either, they DO show up in a lot of movies and are always shown with the ultra elite/wealthy. Never have I seen a dudebro casually get into his Lambo in a movie.

Can’t say I’ve ever seen Porsche show up in a movie.

My Father in Law won’t drive my Boxster, but he sure loved driving my Cayenne. He completely changed his tune when he got to drive it home several hours away, realizing it wasn’t about status at all.

As for corals, you guys can’t be seriously saying that $10 frags are the same class as $200 frags? Look at the orange Monti cap vs Beach bum for example.

The automatic thing though...

Movies: Risky Business, Bad Boys, Gone in 60 seconds, Top Gun, Le Manas (it counts!) just to name a few... Plus, Sally from Cars :)

I would contend that there are plenty of coral frags that if released today would be $300+ dollar frags if released now. Oregon Tort, Red Dragon, Pink Lemonade, Vivid Rainbow all come to mind...

I agree. The downside is the perception that it is old farts like me driving Corvettes. The upside is I blow the young guys out of the water. Once on the way to Vegas I hit 160mph in my ZR-1, the 1990's original version, and my wife turned to me and said, "what if we hit a road hazard at this speed?" My response, "We probably die." I slowed down.

I have close to 600whp in my car. It's so frighteningly easy to hit 150... It feels so smooth and poised...

 

[NeutronMan]

The automatic thing though...

Movies: Risky Business, Bad Boys, Gone in 60 seconds, Top Gun, Le Manas (it counts!) just to name a few... Plus, Sally from Cars :)

I would contend that there are plenty of coral frags that if released today would be $300+ dollar frags if released now. Oregon Tort, Red Dragon, Pink Lemonade, Vivid Rainbow all come to mind...






I have close to 600whp in my car. It's so frighteningly easy to hit 150... It feels so smooth and poised...

Hmmmn...You’ve given me an idea with those example corals. :-)

Anyone up for a secret social experiment?

 

[Ike]

That’s cuz it’s all we ever see :)

Same goes for Porsche. I’m a younger dude and get some odd looks when I hop out in my flip flops.

These cars go fast, but straight line speed isn’t fun. It’s the twisties that I like. I get in my Boxster for weekend fun on back roads.

I grew up racing karts and then some SCCA stuff and track days. I love the twisties, but I couldn't disagree more about straight line speed.

We need more frags named after cool cars and car stuff!

 

[Ike]

Hmmmn...You’ve given me an idea with those example corals. :)

Anyone up for a secret social experiment?

What'd you have in mind?

I'd add PC Rainbow and Bali Tricolor to the list. Depending on what you're thinking, maybe add green slimer, rainbow monti, and sunset monti to the list for kicks.

 

[NeutronMan]

I grew up racing karts and then some SCCA stuff and track days. I love the twisties, but I couldn't disagree more about straight line speed.

We need more frags named after cool cars and car stuff!

How about a turquoise turbo Acro?

 

[Dkeller_nc]

How about a turquoise turbo Acro?

Ferrari Dino Spathulata? ;)

 

[Dkeller_nc]

What'd you have in mind?

I'd add PC Rainbow and Bali Tricolor to the list. Depending on what you're thinking, maybe add green slimer, rainbow monti, and sunset monti to the list for kicks.

I've an idea what you guys are thinking. It's mean as hell, and absolutely appropriate. I love it. :)

Ironically enough, I just came home with about a 5" colony of an Australian acro that certainly fits the description of "purple monster" -dark purple, white polyps, and characteristic growth habit and form. The whole colony was $250, so I was pleased. And no, I'm not going to post pictures, as that might start an argument about what a "true" purple monster is, which IMHO, is utterly irrelevant. ;)

 

[Hermie]

it's pretty ridiculous to be comparing purely aesthetic quality to the experience of controlling a race car

that someone even brought up porsche says a lot lol!

 

[Cell]

I cant buy 1 Porsche and grow a new Porsche from the one I bought every few months thereafter. "Rare" corals arent the same thing as rare comics. I think the ability to self-replenish should be factored in.

 

[hart24601]

I would argue the opposite. While vendors pricing and frags have gotten a bit wild I don’t think there has ever been a better time to get very nice coral cheap – as others have said from local hobbyists. So many people now can grow sps coral easy there is a huge amount of great coral in metro areas, even if someone might have to drive a while to get there, most people are selling them cheap for ‘common’ corals. You can go to a frag swap here and if you are not going for fancy names, stock a small reef with majority sps and some lps for well under 200 bucks, maybe 100 if you wait until end of show when people are packing up. Sure they are frags, but 10 years ago (esp if accounting for inflation) it would have been crazy to think you could fill a tank with a variety of sps that cheap. And as a bonus they are all 100% aquacultured.


While not quite that cheap there are even great coral ‘packs’ on ebay from hobbyists that are quite nice. I was just looking and there are a few sellers offering packs that come down to $15 a frag shipped. You can get a 10 pack for $150 bucks and while it will take a while that could stock a tank with time, which is the mantra of reefing right? Nothing happens fast. You can even lose a couple and not be too sad about it.


I think it’s just easy to see the big price and get worked up, and forget how spoiled we are now with the selection we have of corals vs the early 2000s, especially in more remote places like Iowa! Looking at inflation calculator from 2005 to now is a bit over 30% rise. While this thread is about livestock it's all pretty amazing. I can get now a 20g long for 1$ a gallon sale for $20, stock with SPS for around $100 from show or ebay, black box reef light for also under 100 bucks, add in kalk, heater, cheaper powerhead and some rock and you can have a running SPS system with new equipment stocked for $300 if you don’t wanna get fancy. I find that to be pretty sweet for the hobby current state.

 

[OrionN]

The ability for us to grow and frag corals make comparison between coral and diamond and car illogical. The seller does not have control or monopoly of the good.

 

[living_tribunal]

When I started in this hobby 15+ years ago I would go to my LFS and purchase nice sized colonies/corals at reasonable prices.

About 2 weeks ago I gave my Granddaughter about half the corals in my 180gl to stock the 50gl tank I had given her. So I went out looking for new pieces to stock my tank. 95% of everything is little bitty frags on plugs at inflated prices. I am of the opinion and experience that buying frags, for the most part, is a sucker's game. The attrition rate is horrible. Yet most hobbyists continue to purchase frags because that is what is available. But why is that the only game in town? If we, as buyers, stopped buying overpriced frags the retailers would be forced to reduce the price or increase the size. Here is an example: I went to my LFS and asked if he could get me a nice Blasto colony, (BTW 4 heads on a plug IS NOT a colony), and he took me over to his display tank and told me I could buy one of the 2 colonies he had. About 20 heads for $225. He then took me to his frag tank and showed me the same heads at $60 each and he has a constant turnover of them. I asked him why people would pay $60 a head and he told me that is what hobbyists have become conditioned to buying.

He has a handful of old-time customers like me who he tries to find bigger pieces for, but most people prefer to buy frags. There is another well known LFS near me who has basically stopped selling corals because he told me selling frags is just ripping his customers off and he doesn't need the money that bad.

So someone explain to me? What is the fascination with buying frags?

It’s pretty simple math: demand > supply = $^

With Indonesia closed, most aqua farms really just starting to reach higher scales, and most reefers being concerned with the worlds reefs and environment, frags are how things have progressed.

I for one don’t want to keep taking too many corals (except when it’s a new type) from the ocean. Let the aqua farms do their thing and start overgrowing your own so that you can trade.

 

[Big E]

Corals like Purple Monster Acro will never be inexpensive because it grow too slow and too delicate. On the other hand ASD Rainbow Milli, or Red Planet Acro is a very beautiful coral and price come down to just a common coral these day.

BTW, when I was selling corals, it is really difficult to guess what will sell a certain year. Still I have to set the coral tank on short notice, to show the coral at their best to sell. This is not easy. Small person that I am, it is back breaking business.

You need to get your local swaps to use sites such as Fragswapper or Reeftrader. All the corals are pre-sold and there's no reason to set up a tank at the swap. You only have to cut what is already sold and there is no need to stage corals for months.

You cut them 3-4 weeks in advance once a person commits to a buy. You also do have an option to do WYSIWYG if you want as well.

 

[FugeTown]

I bought my first 2 actual acro colony and your right for what you pay for a colony a frag shouldn’t be 89.99 or even 59.99 it’s steep but if people are buying it then the supplier is making money enabling them to be a source of beautiful coral colonies during a questionable time with the ocean corals in jeopardy. I get it why they are expensive because it’s a business with employees, us as a hobbyist could glue a little acro frag and sell it for $20 in the comfort of our home but the company Top Shelf Aquatics for example, the employees get paid for gluing the thousands of frags , cutting, packaging, customer service, electric bill , rent for the building and more bringing that same $20 frag up to $50-90. I like supporting small business that sell coral or even big businesses because without them our source of new coral becomes seriously limited.

 

[motortrendz]

I'm 50/50 on this bc I remember buying colonies at theLFS, getting a few nicer pieces as well as buying frags. But frags are getting smaller and smaller and more photoshopped it's hard to tell what your getting and a 1/4" frag will take years to become a colony. (Not what most people call colonies lately. (A frag plug encrusted with 3 branches isnt a colony. )

Now on the flip side I probably have about 75 acro drags and 60 mixed coral frags in my system that have all grown quite well. Most are aquaculture and bought from fellow reefers or well knows coral farms. When corals are aquacultured they cost more bc theres more time and money invested in growing and propagating them. But they're also alot more suited to the aquarium environment. Which makes them a little better a handling swings and issues in our small environments. To me that's worth the extra cost.

So I get it. You now see frags some less than 1 inch or a single polyp or head for almost the same price as you used to buy a colony for. It's frustrating. But for the sustainability of the hobby and to keep the LFS supported I feel like this is the right way, even though my wallet(and my wife) disagrees.

Hope it makes sense to you. And honestly I dont know y some guys are attacking you. Maybe they didn't have their coffee yet... but it is a valid question. Hope my insight and thoughts helped.

 

[MixedFruitBasket]

While colonies are nice, they are a huge risk (tank and financial) if you are importing them. And there are importers that consumers can go through to buy a box but be prepared to slap down a grand minimum and cross your fingers at least half lives. I've gotten some awesome pieces this way and I've gotten bags of melted shrooms.

Like anyone else, I want cheap corals. Which means I don't get to choose from the elite collections, which is fine. But growing out frags of coral is work. It takes time and money. Those who grow them out invest in high dollar pieces to propagate. They invest THOUSANDS in equipment and space. There is nothing, absolutely nothing wrong with them charging what they want. Having a hobby shouldn't mean it's your duty to go into debt for others.

People who grow corals deserve every penny they make no matter how big or small their operation. And if you're like me and not willing to pay 300.00 or more for a single zoanthid, no one is forcing you to buy it. You can just as easily decorate your tank with frags from the bargain bin like the rest of us cheapskates.

 

[ca1ore]

Yes, it’s supply and demand. As long as there are buyers willing to pay $300 for a fingernail frag, sellers will price them that way. I fail to see why this is unclear to some folks. Buddy of mine use to rail against frag prices, until he started selling his frags ..... guess what LOL. Novelty commands a premium in this hobby; wait a year or two and most come way down in price. I just bought a nice Walt Disney frag for pennies compared to 2017.

 

[James w Lewis]

Whole colonies are usually plain looking. Aid you want the high end color you have to buy the expensive frags. I bought a tenui colony two weeks ago and it was dead in two days while my frags look great.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

I like watching frags grow into colonies.