Why Do We Continue To Buy Frags?

[andrewkw]

Very few colonies coming in means colonies can’t be sold. Aussie or bust which were already considerably more expensive then Indo. 1 year later we are still waiting for another source to step up. A cut up Aussie coral is no more (or less) sustainable then full colonies but when supply cannot come close to demand price is going to go up. Additionally if Australia were to close it would basically be over for many retailers so they have no choice but to frag in preparation for a worst case scenario that is at the very least somewhat likely to happen one day.

 

[mfrumkin]

Why are you so concerned with what other people are buying?

Perhaps you prefer colonies ripped out of the ocean. I like aquacultured frags. It’s much more sustainable, especially with the way things are headed.

Don’t like it? “We” made our choice.

I think you are misinterpreting the intent behind my post. It is a global question, not specifically aimed at you. I DON'T care what other people buy. It is your money to spend however you want. If you want to pay champagne prices for 7 up that's your choice. I have some frags that I'd be happy to overcharge you for.

Don't assume the corals I buy currently are "ripped" out of the ocean. The ones I purchased 10-15 years ago, probably. Today, even most of the pieces I've seen have been aquacultured. And you don't think the big vendors who sell you a coral for $10, $20, $30 plus a polyp couldn't aquaculture larger pieces if they wanted to? Please. They don't have to because t0o many hobbyists are willing to shell out big bucks for little frags.

As I posted earlier, I bought an aquacultured Blasto with about 20 heads for $225. Or I could have purchased 4 heads for $240. Which is the better deal? I purchased a beautiful rose Paly from my LFS for $79.00. He had it in his shop for over a year and grew it from 5 heads. Nobody wanted to buy it, but people come in all day and buy frags with 3-4 polyps for $39.95. Same with a candy cane I bought from him.

 

[mfrumkin]

I think the OP is more concerned about the cost of frags as opposed to what people are buying. At least that is what I got out of the post.

That is correct.

 

[mfrumkin]

I think “every” post is an exaggeration. Perhaps look at my post history?

But I don’t like how the poster is trying to speak for everyone, including me. “Why do we....”. Hence the tone- because I certainly do NOT group myself with that line of thought.

I don’t want to buy colonies taken from reefs. I’d rather buy a single head, and grow it myself into a colony.

Perhaps English is not your native language so you are missing the meaning of the word WE in my post. By We, I am referring to the hobbyists on a global level. Now if I had posted why do YOU buy frags that would have been directed at you and others in a challenging or confrontational manner. This was not my intention. By using we I am asking why hobbyists allow vendors to charge outrageous prices for very little product.

Now having said that, let me also say that I have purchased corals from vendors both private and retail who I have met on R2R who have been more than fair with the product they are selling.

 

[sfin52]

I agree with what you are saying. It is nice to find LFS that offer colonies & not just frags. But depending on the area, some LFS have to offer frags only because that’s what sells.

One thing you can do is ask your local LFS to offer you a colony they receive - before they frag it . I have done this & received some nice colonies. Some LFS also buy colonies from local hobbyists that grow corals @ home (not just companies) to frag. You can give the LFS your budget. I have gotten some nice colonies this way. Also some nice large soft corals (toadstools, leathers..) are often available if you ask.

I hardly see small leather frags. Most of the leather I run into are 50+ for a very nice size coral. I would rather have two or three small corals than one big one.

 

[Bouncingsoul39]

This is a nice argument, pre Indo ban and Bali ban. They were the source of cheap colonies. Once retailers (we used to call them chop shops) figured out that suckers would pay top $$$ for small frags, why sell a colony when you can make ten frags out of it and triple your profit? Anyway, like I said, since the export bans, small frags are all we have left now except for already very expensive Aussie stuff and some ugly stuff from Tonga. I don't see retailers ever offering large colonies of corals that can be easily fragged again though like they used to in the early 00's. With that said, you can still buy some colonies of corals that aren't easily fragged, at massive markup prices on Live Aquaria and other sites.

 

[Jon Fishman]

I only buy big, established colonies....... you know, the ones where most of the frag plug is covered.......

 

[bluprntguy]

I love buying captive grown frags, moving them to my tank, and watching them (hopefully) grow into colonies. I've never been interested in buying a large colony and certainly not a colony that was ripped from a natural reef.

 

[Adventures In Reefing]

I, like a lot of people have enjoyed buying frags to watch them develop. That's really what I enjoy out of this 20 year obsession of mine. However I will concede that a 1/2 to 3/4" is kind of ridiculous, a frag in my opinion should be about 2" but that's just my opinion. I saw the other day a single polyp from a nice looking Zoa for $200.00 I was like hey man if people are willing to spend 200 bucks for a polyp more power to you. Its not for me though that's for sure.

 

[cancun]

I love buying captive grown frags, moving them to my tank, and watching them (hopefully) grow into colonies. I've never been interested in buying a large colony and certainly not a colony that was ripped from a natural reef.

I think the discussion here is the high cost of tiny frags.....not where they were wild caught or not. I think most of us on here agree we would rather buy aquacultured over wild caught. I personally suspect the LFS is also to blame for fragging a colony into little 1/2 inch frags and selling it for exorbitant prices. I know a lot of us have seen it lately. As far as my money I am very choosey now, and wait until there is a piece I really want, instead of heading to the LFS once a week to see what they have. That 250.00 per head of torch coral I told you guys about in my earlier post.....he fragged it into one head per frag plug.....he sold all 6 frags in two hours last Saturday. To 6 different customers!!!!!

 

[qstorm]

I think you are misinterpreting the intent behind my post. It is a global question, not specifically aimed at you. I DON'T care what other people buy. It is your money to spend however you want. If you want to pay champagne prices for 7 up that's your choice. I have some frags that I'd be happy to overcharge you for.

Don't assume the corals I buy currently are "ripped" out of the ocean. The ones I purchased 10-15 years ago, probably. Today, even most of the pieces I've seen have been aquacultured. And you don't think the big vendors who sell you a coral for $10, $20, $30 plus a polyp couldn't aquaculture larger pieces if they wanted to? Please. They don't have to because t0o many hobbyists are willing to shell out big bucks for little frags.

As I posted earlier, I bought an aquacultured Blasto with about 20 heads for $225. Or I could have purchased 4 heads for $240. Which is the better deal? I purchased a beautiful rose Paly from my LFS for $79.00. He had it in his shop for over a year and grew it from 5 heads. Nobody wanted to buy it, but people come in all day and buy frags with 3-4 polyps for $39.95. Same with a candy cane I bought from him.

I am a newbie, 1 year in the game and I have to agree with you. After spending so much money just to get setup, its very hard to get corals at a decent price. Yes I prefer frags so I can watch it grow, but the price and size you are getting is ridiculous and you not guaranteed it will survive in your tank. My water condition is within the hobby guideline and I can never grow a sps frag. So spending all that money for a little head is ridiculous . Thank god I found my LFS that has $15 frag section.

 

[Hemmdog]

Perhaps English is not your native language so you are missing the meaning of the word WE in my post. By We, I am referring to the hobbyists on a global level. Now if I had posted why do YOU buy frags that would have been directed at you and others in a challenging or confrontational manner. This was not my intention. By using we I am asking why hobbyists allow vendors to charge outrageous prices for very little product.

Now having said that, let me also say that I have purchased corals from vendors both private and retail who I have met on R2R who have been more than fair with the product they are selling.

I’ve been boycotting online coral sales the past year due to frag sizes and price. However, it doesn’t seem to be making much of an impact to vendors. :( lol. Prices just keep going up.

I don’t think people that come on forums are the issue. Something is keeping the supply relatively low to be able to keep prices so inflated even though coral grows exponentially faster. I believe its these kids who are obsessed with these YouTube & Instagram reefers and try to replicate their tanks and shell out hundreds or thousands of dollars on mushrooms and acros because it’s “trendy”. They don’t stop to actually learn the hobby, the biology, anything worthwhile, so their corals die, they buy more. It’s a viscous cycle of noobs killing coral which is why there isn’t a billion WWC OG bounces floating around the hobby. They reproduce like crazy, where are they all? Why are they still more expensive than my car payment? Short rant.. whew. I feel better.

 

[cancun]

I, like a lot of people have enjoyed buying frags to watch them develop. That's really what I enjoy out of this 20 year obsession of mine. However I will concede that a 1/2 to 3/4" is kind of ridiculous, a frag in my opinion should be about 2" but that's just my opinion. I saw the other day a single polyp from a nice looking Zoa for $200.00 I was like hey man if people are willing to spend 200 bucks for a polyp more power to you. Its not for me though that's for sure.

Me neither......that 250.00 a head for the golden torch was over the top..... beautiful piece.....but not for me. LOL!

 

[cancun]

I’ve been boycotting online coral sales the past year due to frag sizes and price. However, it doesn’t seem to be making much of an impact to vendors. :( lol. Prices just keep going up.

I don’t think people that come on forums are the issue. Something is keeping the supply relatively low to be able to keep prices so inflated even though coral grows exponentially faster. I believe its these kids who are obsessed with these YouTube & Instagram reefers and try to replicate their tanks and shell out hundreds or thousands of dollars on mushrooms and acros because it’s “trendy”. They don’t stop to actually learn the hobby, the biology, anything worthwhile, so their corals die, they buy more. It’s a viscous cycle of noobs killing coral which is why there isn’t a billion WWC OG bounces floating around the hobby. They reproduce like crazy, where are they all? Why are they still more expensive than my car payment? Short rant.. whew. I feel better.

LOL! Great point!!!!

 

[Saveafish]

Try putting a 1/4" frag in a 400g. It looks like a bug.

 

[Adventures In Reefing]

Try putting a 1/4" frag in a 400g. It looks like a bug.

I've had bigger hitchhikers lol. Love the deadpool fish BTW

 

[NS Mike D]

There are more than sufficient very nice frags available in the $5- $20 range through my local reef club, that I needn't take the risk of a high end coral frag, but I will never judge a hobbyist who does. Just like the BudMillerCoors drinker might not understand why I pay north of $8 for a craft beer I wouldn't knock a hobbyist for paying $250 for a frag. We all make choices with how we spend our discretionary money.

As for frags v colonies, it's simple economics. Rent and time are not cheap. If you want a colony, expect to pay the seller for the rent in his/her tank, the use of equipment and the expensive supplies, electric and of course the sellers time while that frag grows into a colony. Colonies just don't appear (unless you want ones ripped from a reef).

Over time, the aqua culture will continue to become more efficient and more growers will enter the market so that supply equals demand and profits will narrow to a small percent over cost. And some sellers will continue to strive to provide higher quality so they can charge more for the discerning buyers in the market as well as unusual rare specimens chasing "economic profit" (ie high margins).

 

[BZOFIQ]

I too dislike the current trend - seems to me people call their tanks display tanks for no reason at all.

Back in the days (not that long ago really) things were labeled "show size" or "display piece"

Most people today dont have display tanks, they are simply mislabeled frag tanks.

 

[BZOFIQ]

duplicate removed

 

[HawaiianReef]

I buy full systems from people getting out of the hobby.
I always had the intention of selling the gear, but I usually just give it away to folks so they can spend their money on everything else needed.
Last month I bought 3 big pukani rocks for $150 from a crashing tank. I was just looking for rock, but there was about $1k worth of corals with it. All the corals are bouncing back are doing well. Going fallow to rid of any possible parasites. :)