Why don't algae control writers/advisors do live time work threads in the nuisance algae forum?

[brandon429]

when we started doing rip clean threads from willing tank owners 100% of the forum push back was the ridiculous kind like: you will crash your tank


You are resetting the microbiome

You are removing all pods!

You will bleach your corals

And fifteen more admonishments. Loud ones, angry posts against the idea kind of like a few made here recently.


But we just kept logging them over, and over and over by the hundreds without listening to the masses. The results were too fun, those reefers were happy, we were all happy with the results

Everything the masses yelled was wrong, the results were great. Who invented it never mattered during those posts.


in that decade of the sand rinse thread, I found there’s a big big big working industry aimed at selling us bacteria to add and ways to measure bacteria in a reef tank, presented as a need to do so for best outcome reefing

we made all that work measuring nothing, and only removing bacteria+sludge free of charge.

I had never read a thread prior that showed outbound tanks being worked for sandbed jobs.





I have been told some reasons why algae control authors are not taking on work thread challenges, if the demand keeps up maybe motivation breakpoint will change.


there’s value in the logged steps a reef pro took in turning a challenge tank around. Having to begin the job live time without knowing the outcome is different than cherry picking the best examples to focus on, this is what most articles do.

 

[Paul B]

Brandon if the rip clean method works, then why not just advise people to do that? I can't speak of that because I don't even know what it is.

It's like when people say to me that I don't have to medicate or quarantine and my fish never get sick, they say it is because of ozone or my Reverse undergravel filter. I tell them, if you think that is the secret, then do that.

 

[brandon429]

I sure do advise ‘em. We are underway still with sixty pages of voluntary work ongoing in other peoples tanks in the sand rinse thread.

We used rip cleans to fix invasions, make tank upgrades, do sandbed swaps or removals, or to reduce their live rock into a negative aquascape in some jobs planned so as not to recycle the tank.

we used rip cleaning to prepare reef substrates for long distance tank moves and relocations. And we did nine years of tank work in one thread without anyone ever testing for ammonia because the method controls tank cycling in all reef tanks, not just some. We don’t have to test things we are already certain of

The one thing I like about the sand rinse thread collection of rip cleans is that large tankers are included. Nobody wants to dig into a 200 gallon reef that’s ten years running unless they absolutely must, and moving homes is a must-time that’s for sure. They pretty much have to join up at that point if they want a for-sure safe tank method.


I couldn’t state I had a factually safe and reliable tank transfer method by writing an article that uses only my tank as the example. It had to be nine years of doing tank transfers in other peoples tanks as the marker for reliability.

That’s what I’m wanting to see as best practices methods are touted in articles and books, I want to see the authors work sometimes shown as solely outbound jobs from web forums so the outcomes others get is factored into their best practices teaching.

As of now, that aspect is fully missing from every single best practices advice on algae management in the reef tank.



How’d our sages become sages if the only thing they can manage is their own reef tank? The best reefing science is repeatable by others right now, where the help threads are.

 

[BeanAnimal]

How’d our sages become sages if the only thing they can manage is their own reef tank? The best reefing science is repeatable by others right now, where the help threads are.

You continue to ignore or discount the collective knowledge of the entire hobby. It is all “proof” just not in YOUR demanded format. You choose whatever “sage” you wish, but stop trying to force others to follow.

 

[brandon429]

You aren’t forced to follow anything. There’s a working ignore button on the site, anyone can use it against me as well.

I get my work threads by simple hard work - offering to help and getting direct @ requests to help and then responding to those vs just going away silently.




I know not to keep pressing you for a single live time job so you can see how it feels to run one. I’m aware of the reasons you can’t do that simple activity. I’ll find someone who can.

 

[BeanAnimal]

You aren’t forced to follow anything. There’s a working ignore button on the site, anyone can use it against me as well.

I don't want to ignore you. IMHO somebody needs to counterbalance your rhetoric.

I get my work threads by simple hard work - offering to help and getting direct @ requeststo help and then responding to those vs just going away silently.

I can't speak for anybody else, but I am not here looking for "work" and can only assume given the lack of response to your constant demand for people to "produce outbound work" that most other's are not either. I am here to communicate with other people and pass on and consume knowledge from them and do so in the manner that I choose.

I know not to keep pressing you for a single live time job so you can see how it feels to run one. I’m aware of the reasons you can’t do that simple activity. I’ll find someone who can.

You are "aware" why I "can't"?

You are not listening or paying attention. I "can" but "won't" because I have absolutely zero reason or desire.

As it were, my original overflow thread at RC is likely longer than all of your threads combined, at 436 pages and that is JUST ONE thread of hundreds. If RC had not declined when it did (party because people like myself, PaulB and many other major contributors took a very long break) it would be 1,000 pages or more. Let's not talk about the almost universal adoption of said overflow. But that is not a metric that I track or care about, I bring it up because you force the context. This hobby is chock full of people who make daily contributions to the collective and do so without "outbound live work jobs". Some are authors and some are just random folks with good ideas or insights.

We ALL (everyone person here, at RC, humblefish, etc., all of the authors, MACNA speakers, etc) contribute to the collective knowledge of this hobby in our own ways. You keep crapping all over that because it is not your definition of "live outbound work".

You are having trouble "finding people" because your method of recruitment is to insult and brow beat people and try to shame them into "compliance". You are having trouble finding people because you spend more time ranting and raving about your critics and false reef prophets than you do actually providing the help that you keep preaching about.

 

[brandon429]

Bean

For two straight years you've dodged every work invite i offered you. I can see why you feel the need to post stalk lol

The best way you could provide counter balance to my claims is to put your excuse notebook away and show us how it's done

There is a new help request job pending, would you like to work it for us here? I can route them through you first. That's how you provide counter balance, it's not done by dodging a direct request given to you ten times on file.

You could work the job first to completion using your way, that would be in line with the goals of this thread.

 

[jda]

You are having trouble "finding people" because your method of recruitment is to insult and brow beat people and try to shame them into "compliance". You are having trouble finding people because you spend more time ranting and raving about your critics and false reef prophets than you do actually providing the help that you keep preaching about.

...also, the people who have tried get sick of trying to match wits and experience with a witless who has no actual experience who still thinks that he is the only one who is right.

Old Chinese Proverb: tell a man how to reef and he reefs for one day. Teach a man how to reef and he reefs forever. Ok, maybe this was with fish? I forget.

In this case, the man who wants to tell those how to reef has never caught a fish. He has the equivalent experience to those duckies in the pond at your kid's school carnival with the magnet at the end of the pole. Ask him for his actual tanks or experience. There is none. This is like your loser buddy growing up who knew everything about women yet never had one.

If you pay attention, brandon tells you exactly whom he is. He is only here for himself. Being the center of every thread is his thing and it is fun for him - he used to say so all of the time. There was a thread something about "why are you on reef to reef?," or the like. He posted that he is just here to see if he can get people to do what he says. I wish that I would have gotten a screen shot before he edited it when there was some pushback, I think... it has been a long time. Only cowards and the insecure edit their posts to change the narrative rather than to correct minor typing errors and stuff. He also cannot comprehend that the only places where he contributes that work out is with the early part of the tank cycle, but nearly anything will always work out with any amount of patience - nearly all of this would have happened anyway without the strawmen and redefined terms.

Maybe I need to turn off the filter and jump back in. Does anybody sense that too many people are getting hurt again with the nonesense? ...just don't let people who don't know think that he has any sort of actual experience or has ever actually did anything himself. The only people that he manages to prey up upon are usually new.

 

[BeanAnimal]

The best way you could provide counter balance to my claims is to put your excuse notebook away and show us how it's done

You mean show "you" how it's done to prove myself to you.

I am not here to prove anything to you (or anybody) for that matter. Take my advice, experience and input or leave it. You have deluded yourself into thinking that being challenged by you has some bearing or impact on my (or anybodies credibility).

The whole point here is that you keep throwing out insults and challenges to everyone (here and published) and your "poof" that they are lazy, incompetent, shills, full of excuses or scared is that they will not partake in your challenges. It is ludicrous.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Does anybody sense that too many people are getting hurt again with the nonesense? ...just don't let people who don't know think that he has any sort of actual experience or has ever actually did anything himself. The only people that he manages to prey up upon are usually new.

I don't think people are getting "hurt" but I do think that his constant insults and rhetoric are a basic disservice and confusing to newcomers or those just learning. I may be the deluded one, as I had hoped that a common sense conversation could calm some of the rhetoric. Oddly (or not) it has done the opposite and I think he's a gone over the falls and there is no coming back. "He's Dead Jim"

 

[Paul B]

This is like your loser buddy growing up who knew everything about women yet never had one.

Anyway. I still don't know what "Rip Clean" means but if it works, do that.

Last year I had to do something that I think was similar but not because of algae that I don't want to fully eliminate as a tank with absolutely no algae is the same as a tank that is crashing. Well, not all of the time but a little algae usually, but not always means everything is fine. OK, maybe better than fine.

My tank was inundated wit encrusting, invasive sponge that I myself put in because it looked nice, sort of like some of my girlfriends, but not the last one who worked in a hardware store and used to pilfer things to put in her face.

The sponge is one reason I have no SPS and most of my very old and big gorgonians are not much smaller. The stuff grew all over them. To eliminate the stuff, I had to remove everything (but not the gravel or UG filter. I wire brushed much of it off then left a lot of my rock outside last winter in vats in the cold. I wanted to freeze the tropical sponge while leaving the bacteria, worms and pods.

It's the nice looking light blue stuff growing everywhere.



After a few weeks I put that cleaned rock back in. About half of the rock I didn't have to do this to because the sponge was photosynthetic and the lower rocks were free of the stuff.

I put everything back and the tank looked great. For a couple of months. Then because I disturbed the Biome, dino's grew everywhere. There were strings of the stuff growing right to the surface on everything.

I used a diatom filter almost every day to blow it off the rocks and eliminate it. The filter clogged with dinos in a few hours but eventually it was gone only to be replaced by algae which looked like a produce farm.

This was not a problem and I didn't feel I was "battling" anything because invasive sponge, dino's and nusience algae are all part of this fascinating hobby. If thee things didn't occasionally happen this would be a very boring, no talent hobby sort of like Stamp Collecting or golf. (yes, I know many people like to play golf and some like to watch oil paint dry)

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Brandon, you are free to hold to this standard and belief as much as you want, but you can’t hold everyone else to this same standard. You’re free to speak of it in your own thread that you have authored. Here at Reef2Reef, we try to allow room for all kinds of diverse opinions, and we do feel that disagreements and discussions of differing opinions can lead to advancements in the hobby. After all, there are 1,001 ways to run a reef tank successfully.

That said, creating a thread to essentially call others out isn't necessary. There are many ways to demonstrate work and many different ways that the community validates the knowledge gained. We have allowed this thread to continue for a while, because some of the points made here regarding how work is demonstrated have been useful (and kudos to those who have managed to express these points in civil ways), but at this point it seems to have run its course.

Therefore, the staff is closing this thread and including a link to our terms of service.

As a final note, any trolling/harassing others is against our terms of service, and we ask that all members of our community continue to engage one another with civility and respect even (and especially) when there is disagreement with methodology.

Happy reefing!