Why don't algae control writers/advisors do live time work threads in the nuisance algae forum?

[brandon429]

Because if they have to actually run a live time thread and their article-written means don't work, what then will they do with their written advice? Will it sell as well as it did before the expectation of live time performance?

nothing beats a thread that says something like "post your invasion here for the fix" and we watch the maestro work.




when the authorities are consulted for live time work, do they deliver? I dont want to see handpicked examples from an article

I want to see new jobs handled from today onward, collected in a help thread, in the nuisance algae forum. show today's best invasion management science starting rn, anyone

*link here if anyone starts such a thread.

I'm talking published authors, macna speakers etc. youtube reef influencers and insta reefer pros

instead of them crafting articles and hand-picked examples for slide show talks, why not just pick someone posting who really needs help and these sages step in to manage the issue?

is that asking too much from our reef teachers?

regular posters from our community are who show up in droves to help in the requested tank challenge threads, I've always wondered why the pros never show up for the job

we should try and find a pro who's willing to break that trend, and run for us a live time algae work thread.

 

[brandon429]

kudos to the stickies in the help threads, those count as work threads and some are up to 800 pages now. those have been underway for years, trying to work on dinos etc

an ideal would be to make a new one, invite new guided fix jobs and guide it live time from today / soon vs an old thread that way we can see if methods have improved when compared against the results from the stickies already on file.

we as a hobby accept a lot of things as proof of a method without ever actually seeing it ran live time by the advisor, any author or speaker for algae controls should have at minimum several completed works on file from the forums. if not: start one today let's see it unfold.

I've always wanted to see my favorite writers/reefers do live time work as an extension for the things they wrote in educational materials.

 

[BeanAnimal]

because live-time accountability might through a monkey wrench into you planned discussion topic

Very few people are interested in reading what amounts to "lab logs", let alone writing them, let alone trying to interpret them. You see the world through "work threads" I can't think of anybody else who does. This is not the proper format for them anyway. Relevant information and trends are buried within endless pages of conversations spread out through various threads and forums.

 

[Troylee]

Picture books are more fun!

 

[brandon429]

if anyone gives talks at macna about any aspect of algae control in 2024, we want the 2.0 version

do the live time work thread for 8 mos, then write about those outcomes, give a talk on those outcomes.

pull it off/that'll be the talk of the century.

if you know how to beat dinos, or cyano, or hair algae or chrysophytes don't just write about it/invite the hard jobs and work them live time. if there are any new speakers at reef conventions who don't have a live time thread, forward this to them please

 

[brandon429]

I interpret post #3 as: I will not be taking that challenge.

what would be great to see: I accept that challenge, here's the link.

*the reason there's a dichotomy between the confidence we gain from reading a well-crafted article vs the daily work we see due in the nuisance algae forum from people already following the written rules, is due to constant declination of live time work by advice writers, justify it any way we want.

show the legitimate stuff in action, is the plea. coax ten invaded reef tanks back to compliance, that's not too much to ask from an author in my opinion. all new jobs.

there's lots of help needed from people who will follow the posted advice and provide pics for sure, they'll do what the author tells them to do

make use of that, prove the procedure live time. I would sub to such a thread and watch it intently if someone did step up and make that thread in the nuisance algae forum.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Picture books are more fun!

Hey hey "I read it for the articles"

 

[brandon429]

doing work threads via rip cleans is easy, everyone gets the same outcome. nobody wants to read about that

they want to read about the no-work control options, the finesse ability we see instructed in the articles. if there's a cuc guaranteed to work (how many thousands of articles claim that we've seen) then show it live time, simply instruct the tank owner to buy some margarita snails let's see how it patterns out.

if there's an additive that works, show it live time.

the reason we should want to see these exercised in action, before being told what's a best practice, is to verify claims.

lots of the common adages about algae control actually don't work in live time help threads, don't we want to see that in order to know the dated practices vs the effective ones? I do for sure.

 

[Garf]

I interpret post #3 as: I will not be taking that challenge.

what would be great to see: I accept that challenge, here's the link.

*the reason there's a dichotomy between the confidence we gain from reading a well-crafted article vs the daily work we see due in the nuisance algae forum from people already following the written rules, is due to constant declination of live time work by advice writers, justify it any way we want.

show the legitimate stuff in action, is the plea. coax ten invaded reef tanks back to compliance, that's not too much to ask from an author in my opinion. all new jobs.

there's lots of help needed from people who will follow the posted advice and provide pics for sure, they'll do what the author tells them to do

make use of that, prove the procedure live time. I would sub to such a thread and watch it intently if someone did step up and make that thread in the nuisance algae forum.

Pretty sure "in the beginning" folks used to use massive coral skeletons in fish only tanks. They used to swop them out with nice fresh bleached ones on maintenance day. Don't think they called it rip cleaning though, and pretty sure I've not seen a thread about such a mundane task. Perhaps one of the "ancients" has written something about it somewhere, lol.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Pretty sure "in the beginning" folks used to use massive coral skeletons in fish only tanks. They used to swop them out with nice fresh bleached ones on maintenance day. Don't think they called it rip cleaning though, and pretty sure I've not seen a thread about such a mundane task. Perhaps one of the "ancients" has written something about it somewhere, lol.

I think his point is that unless somebody takes the time to build a "work thread" showing multiple realtime logged remediation actions and results, that their work, advice or opinion is not credible.

When one drinks enough of one's homemade cool-aid the world begins to look like and taste cool-aid. Though I prefer cherry with real sugar and an extra scoop at that. Somewhere in Brandon's punch bowl there is some good sound advice, but it is getting harder and harder to recognize as his cool-aid addiction progresses and his use of language and vision become skewed.

 

[Garf]

I think his point is that unless somebody takes the time to build a "work thread" showing multiple realtime logged remediation actions and results, that their work, advice or opinion is not credible.

When one drinks enough of one's homemade cool-aid the world begins to look like and taste cool-aid. Though I prefer cherry with real sugar and an extra scoop at that. Somewhere in Brandon's punch bowl there is some good sound advice, but it is getting harder and harder to recognize as his cool-aid addiction progresses and his use of language and vision become skewed.

How on earth did we manage before dialup? lol.

 

[Roadkillstewie]

How on earth did we manage before dialup? lol.

Carrier Pigeon...

 

[brandon429]

but can we see anything live time, new, started today or thereabouts

that's the question

lemme go find a recent reefing article and we can nominate them/one sec.

 

[brandon429]

ok I vote Mike P reefbuilders. someone email him this thread.

How to keep Algae from Becoming Problematic | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

Whether you are starting out or have been keeping a reef tank for a long time the number one worry that most hobbyists still seem to have is how to keep algae in check. Since the start of the hobby…

reefbuilders.com

we happen to have the world's best test ground for fixing up tanks where algae became problematic, here at RTR.

I claim once ten different reef tank invasions post up simultaneously in a work thread where we ask for entrants from today's reefing challenges, the typical go-to options go right out the window. if you really want to manage ten reef invasions at once and get good after pics some brutish means will be employed.

 

[brandon429]

why I voted for that author: was a recent algae article I saw. No other reason.

there are 600 page fluconazole threads

there are thousands of pages of cuc employment threads

there are thousands of ats threads and posts

when I pull up this fluconazole thread (which is an actual work thread btw) I'm not seeing reduced cyano invasions, I'm seeing it as nearly expected that's an unstated downside of fluc use

Bryopsis Cure: My Battle With Bryopsis Using Fluconazole

Where did you buy this brightwell product? Brightwell Aquatics Hydrat-MG - Hydrated Magnesium Salt Solution for Use in Marine Aquarium

www.reef2reef.com

I'm seeing a very very very high initial kill rate for anything green in a reef tank.

and then alternation of generations: cyano in 80+% respondents/ dinos outbreaks to a high degree

I didn't get that from the algae article, it came from the work thread. using fluconazole in an invaded reef tank is nearly certain to tradeoff the plant issue for a moneran one. then the keepers dose chemiclean for the cyano, and get dinos

that pattern is there in the thread.



work threads are better than published articles for algae control best practices, because they're not insulated from raw feedback.

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

I got you, @brandon429

I just beat back a bad dino bloom, and I would be shocked if they ever show up again. I’ll post something over there to start it off.

 

[brandon429]

dang man. in my opinion that's what will evolve practices in the hobby more than anything, it takes truly believing in someone's method to do that.

it's a huge responsibility to handle other people's reef tanks indirectly

anyone who can get compliance in large reef challenges has my watch for sure. getting control of large tank invasions consistently hasn't been seen in the hobby in my opinion and reading.

your own reef tank will become more bulletproof with every outbound job completed

-the difference of a work thread vs any other invasion post is only one person is guiding the work vs the group. that's what makes them rare and we get to truly evaluate a method that way, only that way.

what I like about results-based reefing is # of years in the hobby no longer carries the bonus

the controller of live time jobs deserves the bonus. someone can write an article on that rearrangement approach to algae control in reefing.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Brandon, Mike Paletta is a local guy and been keeping coral for many decades through endless trial, error and experience. I don't think he needs (or would even entertain) a challenge to join a thread to "fix" other people's tanks to validate his advice, opinions or methods. To what end? To get the Brandon "work thread seal of approval"?

This thread (honestly, no offense) feels like some kind of odd satire or spoof. What is the goal here? Is it to prove that you know more than all of them? Is it for others to "prove" their methods or be publicly shown to be full of crap and shut up? What is the goal?

You are basically calling out the entire hobby and telling us all we are full of crap unless we take your "work thread challenge". You used to post with some relevancy... your rhetoric is getting kinda silly.

Here is one of Mike's tanks.

I assume his "algae control" method is working, unless I am missing something....

 

[Garf]

dang man. in my opinion that's what will evolve practices in the hobby more than anything, it takes truly believing in someone's method to do that.

it's a huge responsibility to handle other people's reef tanks indirectly

anyone who can get compliance in large reef challenges has my watch for sure. getting control of large tank invasions consistently hasn't been seen in the hobby in my opinion and reading.

your own reef tank will become more bulletproof with every outbound job completed

-the difference of a work thread vs any other invasion post is only one person is guiding the work vs the group. that's what makes them rare and we get to truly evaluate a method that way, only that way.

what I like about results-based reefing is # of years in the hobby no longer carries the bonus

the controller of live time jobs deserves the bonus. someone can write an article on that rearrangement approach to algae control in reefing.

Which part of Mr Paletta's experience are you doubting? Personally, his rationale of using an algae scrubber in that article appears wrong (to me, at least), but just about everything else seems to fall in line with most of our experiences, and logic.

 

[Fish Styx]

Right.... so, because you doubt the credibility of Industry experts and published authors with proven track records of success, they should abandon their real lives and responsibilities to sit and monitor a hobby forum "in real time"? All of this in order to assuage your ego.

Me thinks you need to rip clean your thought process...