Why don't algae control writers/advisors do live time work threads in the nuisance algae forum?

[brandon429]

but I find work threads fun

Not intimidating, or reasons to hide, or prompts to make excuses or jokes

Heck when someone sends me a pm we get right to work



Why should someone’s time in the hobby be a proven track record? You guys let your sages off Scott free/ too easily.

There is a reason Gregg’s attitude is the rare rare rare rare rare rare rare one. I’ve already seen him do outbound work in threads, what he’s planning will just be a continuance vs a start, a first go.

Getting called to do a live time job is simply too scary for 99% of the pop here, and maybe some authors too-is that a fair assessment or too mean

Yea like they’re so busy with their article typing they can’t take time to come work some live stuff don’t press your heroes too hard for sure.


His was just the most recent article on algae I found when I searched. He put it out there, I’m asking for a simple live demo in response to the article. Just do one, not even a pattern is required

 

[brandon429]

All I’m saying is the stuff in algae articles doesn’t work worth a flip. It’s why for 25 years the same info is rehashed, and people in work threads already running the options are still invaded and the only help they get are from peers who offer their best help but nobody really fixes tanks in pattern


Asking the teachers to step up once every two decades isn’t putting them on the spot, or picking on anyone, it’s just science with a tinge of accountability


Something’s gotta change, and we need a macna speaker or published author / sage / teacher / consultant who will rise when asked to demo live time. Why is that like pulling teeth to get

I would rather read algae best practices from a 3 year tenured reefer who has several work threads vs a 40 year reefer who only perfected their own tanks.

Works for others, done live time, is where the real best practices exist.

 

[thrillreefer]

using fluconazole in an invaded reef tank is nearly certain to tradeoff the plant issue for a moneran one. then the keepers dose chemiclean for the cyano, and get dinos

I don’t know much about this whole work thread aspect, but I see two very clear hypotheses that I would love to see you or anyone else investigate via real time (~daily) tank biome sequencing.
1. Fluc shifting biome from algae to monerans
2. Antibiotics shifting biome from cyano to dinos
3. (And then how context of other interventions affect these shifts: nutrient levels; light vs blackout; etc)

Personally I love articles or any other format that condenses info per page, versus wading through pages of posts….

 

[brandon429]

articles allow cherry picking though of best examples and can be crafted by the author to give all kinds of assurances

so I propose a balance. there are thousands of articles, we're still struggling to find a single author's work thread: so they should do 1 or 2 to begin to provide some support to the published work. it doesnt take long to correct a tank or two in total. that's not asking too much.

I linked the 600 + page fluconazole thread, we don't need to pay aquabiomics to show us what the pics already show. all someone has to do is click here:

Bryopsis Cure: My Battle With Bryopsis Using Fluconazole

Nope, my tank pretty much runs around 10 to 15 nitrate, and .1 to .2 phosphates. Been this way for about 2 years now. Just seems to be where it settled. Only thing I have been doing differently, is running a small bit of GFO(2tbs mixed in carbon to 85G) when I get above .2, which will bring...

www.reef2reef.com

= a massive number of once gha issues turned into cyano and dinos issues. no algae article I've ever read warned about that, because those writers didn't discover that. the workers in the work threads did, but they aren't published

 

[brandon429]

@WarlockTang

what's currently happening underway in our chat is going to result in a laser clear sparkling shining reef tank that looks like you want it to, and that time will arrive within 6-8 hours of your work start time (same day compliance)

why is it that when reading any algae article ever published in a book or on the web, it's an open-ended wait with fingers crossed for compliance? I have never read in my life of the expected date for tank compliance from an algae article.

who's gatekeeping this info?

 

[TokenReefer]

 

[CoastalTownLayabout]

The terminology of ‘tank compliance’ has always seemed a bit misleading to me, the suggestion being the tank, equipment used or its inhabitants are somehow the bad actors in problem algae scenarios.

Shouldn’t we be changing the terminology to ‘hobbyist compliance’? Work thread style remediations are really just a boot camp intervention for hobbyists who have been either intentionally or unintentionally non compliant with established start up and maintenance protocols.

 

[brandon429]

Taras Talks!

Welcome to a brand new series from the Top Shelf's Youtube Channel! Taras Pleskin is a wealth of knowledge, and starting up this series is a great way to get YOU, the hobbyist, more useful information! To kick off the series in today's episode Taras is going to talk all things Moina, and let us...

www.reef2reef.com

ok I asked for one there.

* that's a youtube teacher posting lots of teaching vids. let's see it applied live time, that's a fair fair fair request and if he does it on demand in the forum, that's a great teacher.

the point of continued links I put in the thread will be to find a taker for live time work threads. I expect to have to post lots of requests, and after several pages of them we'll find some takers.

the key element: working in other people's reef tanks, exclusively, to make inferences on what constitutes a best practice. this means all work proofs must be from someone else's reef tank, preferably from someone who's already posting help threads and not getting anywhere. a teacher comes in, or an author, and they fix that stuff right up just like every teacher did over my entire lifespan. if the stated final proof is your own tank, that's not a work thread because you controlled all the outcome reporting.

the whole point of this painful exercise in best practices teaching is to have a set of outcomes written by the owners of the tanks-in-challenge.

 

[Cthulukelele]

Is the concept behind work threads that essentially old tank syndrome is the product of detritus buildup in sand?

 

[brandon429]

For work threads involving old tank syndrome yes

But there are different work threads and sand may not factor in them

for a fish disease work thread they look for issues other than with the tank sand


A work thread is when a reef teacher does any work to completion in someone else's reef thread.

What we see from reef teachers is opposite: its a video of their stuff only, or an article. That's a safe way of doing research, you can control all the outcomes that way.

We want to find times where a reef teacher fixed something for someone else to completion in a web post, that's a work thread.

 

[brandon429]

examples of work threads and not work threads:


example thread from the nuisance algae forum that isn't a work thread:

pink algae? cyano? please help!

i’ve been battling with gha for a year now. now this pink stuff appeared recently. i’m frustrated with this tank and hoping for some advice that will help get me back to the passion i once had with this hobby. tia

www.reef2reef.com

that's not a work thread because no writer of algae control best practices went in there and offered to help, as of 2/20/24 at 11:05 am central time that is heh

there must be 200+ online articles written by very sure people on how to fix that kind of problem, see how they're not in the thread? those writers don't scope web forums for decades, looking to prove their science by going in and offering live time help. what they sell to us in articles doesn't really work is why, I think.

they stay away from where the work is


people from the webverse will offer their best help, that's who is in the trenches with you in a reef tank, not the writers unwilling to make work threads.

 

[Joe462]

Live-time accountability for outcome is a big consequence when testing out best practices in reefing

nothing beats a thread that says something like "post your invasion here for the fix" and we watch the maestro work.




when the authorities are consulted for live time work, do they deliver? I dont want to see handpicked examples from an article

I want to see new jobs handled from today onward, collected in a help thread, in the nuisance algae forum. show today's best invasion management science starting rn, anyone

*link here if anyone starts such a thread.

I'm talking published authors, macna speakers etc. why isn't the web full of these crucial references I've wondered for 20 years. reefcentral circa 2003 had some active forums, I saw Borneman and Shimek do work live time. Randy has been doing live time work the entire time just the same, always thought that was great.

what is a live time work thread?

 

[brandon429]

this one.

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

If you are reading this thread to cure a tank invasion from a link I sent you, we do not need to identify your type of invasion here we do not need you to test anything at anytime regarding nitrate, phosphate etc Above all, we do not need to see a microscope slide picture of your invasion at...

www.reef2reef.com

it's live time because I just did more work 48 hours ago with a bed swap link. It's all other people's reefs, we're testing a tight order of ops for handling sand. All those tanks are doing the exact same steps.

No matter what reason they show up with for the tank, we take it apart and rinse the sandbed out for hours on end with tap water and we put it back together, and log the results.

 

[brandon429]

I think it's neat that work forums exist, not just work threads.

the reef chemistry forum is Randy dealing solely in other people's reefs for two decades/sites combined/ and not killing them, though they're dosing chems and compounds that could easily kill a reef if miscalculated. there's consequence if procedures aren't kept up, and we can see them live time. but we keep seeing wins, for decades. I don't know about Randy's personal tank: he's doing work in other's reefs and they post the results. that's a work forum, hosting thousands of work threads. If Randy writes an article I know it's backed by 24 years of work threads, that's reinforcing to me as a reader.

the fish disease forum is a live-work forum. I don't know anything about Jay's tank yet he works in others by the hundreds

that's one person (by and large) who works jobs in those two forums, for years on end, hundreds and hundreds of live time examples on file. So if they want to write an article about something, or if Humblefish wanted to, I'd read that dang article with glee.

work threads keep accountability high for best practices endeavors.

 

[sde1500]

It’s great you’re helpful to so many but the air of superiority each of your threads and posts take on nearly every time is so off-putting. It’s fine requesting proof at time for claims, but everything devolves to flexing how big your work thread is. I think most can agree there are multiple ways to be successful in this hobby without needing to spend countless hours corresponding with hobbyists to compile data and proof.

 

[The_Paradox]

I 100% agree with @brandon429 for anyone who’s being paid to do this.

 

[brandon429]

web reeffluencers are statused by clicks and subs

it's amazing they build up 4.2 million of those without ever having to get a boot dirty/make work threads. it's all their own reefs, gemmed to the sky and back of course.

I'm not saying it isn't click worthy to sub or read up on a million dollar build etc, I do that too, or a build with multiple $600 torches. a video with a really good still shot entices me to click sometimes too.

but it's never lost on me as I read all these new instructional videos/reviews how different things are when ten reef tanks are laying at your feet and if you mess them up, everybody is going to see it. there's something about that sting which our hobby needs.

 

[brandon429]

Let me ask this:

Dinoflagelates. A disruptive treatment

THE PROBLEM As is well known, dinoflagellate pests in the reef aquarium are perhaps the worst that we will face during the life of our system. These pests are quite difficult to eradicate because dinoflagellates have a great capacity for...

www.reef2reef.com

is that a work thread or is it an article on potential best practices for dinos control?

to discern, I'm looking for: results collected from other's tanks, in pattern, preferably with recent jobs.
-looking to see if the author's own reef is the proof vs someone else's
-looking to see threads where several reef tanks applied the mechanisms stated in the article. I do take that read to imply a best practices option was found. I'm now going to go hunt for it's application among tanks. one sec brb

 

[brandon429]

Dinoflagelates. A disruptive treatment

This thread is for the general discussion of the Article Dinoflagelates. A disruptive treatment. Please add to the discussion here.

www.reef2reef.com

that's the work side of the article where Beuchat stayed in the pages to offer custom tuning for the tanks under invasion. Based on his presence for 18 pages ongoing I rate that as a work thread. well done too, dinos are not easy to manage for others.

dinos work threads in general are not usually super clear fixes and after pics, because it's a work in progress. it's hard to beat and control dinos by adding things, but once that's perfected large tankers will have solid options. at least someone is taking on the work and so are the sticky writers in the nuisance algae forum who try and manage dinos problems with daily help posts in the threads.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Brandon - there are countless content creators that are full of nonsense, but lumping the entirety of the advice and communications in this hobby into the "lacks credibility because it wasn't proven in a work thread" column is ridiculous.

Your posts are getting extremely hard to follow and your insistence that anything not vetted directly by you or a "work thread" is dubious, if not a disservice to the hoards of people that come here looking for help.

You are in effect (if not often directly) saying that anybody that does not subscribe to your approved methods or methodology is uniformed, or worse dishonest for the sake of being liked, followed or compensated.

You swoop into any thread that you feel is in your "wheelhouse" and start telling people to not listen to anything but work threads. Do you feel that this is welcoming or helpful to those seeking guidance, or those attempting to give it? For every person "monetized" or seeking "likes" there are many dozens, if not hundreds that are just trying to enjoy the hobby and help others enjoy the hobby.

What is your mission? To silence everyone but yourself and those that you endorse?