Why don't algae control writers/advisors do live time work threads in the nuisance algae forum?

[Paul B]

I think we should have a "Don't let your fish get sick" forum. There are thousands of "Help my fish have spots", threads, but no Keep Fish Well threads.

My entire method keeps fish well so there is no need for these silly problems that could have been prevented by a very little work, less money than standard practices and a little common sense. I know I am not supposed to mention my tank or the stores I started (decades ago) but those things, although old, prove or at least advise on a proven way to start or at least keep a tank healthy and not one off the shelf item, including bottled bacteria or ammonia is used.

My 52 year old reef kind of proves that can work but it took years and many dead fish to hone it to a point where nothing ever gets sick with anything.

That is the reason I wrote a book (mostly because people don't argue with me)

This is a simple hobby but we insist on making it difficult by opting for the "easy" chemical or device induced methods which may work but we rarely see those chemicals, bottled bacteria or devices in the sea and in the sea, the fish are fine.

When I get time, I will look for a thread to jump in on.

 

[brandon429]

Fish disease work has a big big big need for live time jobs agreed, that’s very hard to manage in other peoples homes for sure. Fish disease losses are the greatest cause of wasted life in the hobby in my opinion. Getting a tank ready to carry fish is easy, nearly any combo we use to prep cycle a tank works after a given number of days wait time. It’s the disease losses that hit in the first eight months causing the most wasting of life in all of reefing in my opinion. It’s a top three need: cycling, algae and fish disease issues are the big three work thread opportunities I think.

 

[Garf]

cycle prep job

Brandon, what do you mean by this? if you please.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Fish disease work has a big big big need for live time jobs agreed,

None of us are on the same page with this "live time jobs" stuff. These are not "jobs" - this is a hobby and ALL OF US here contribute in our own way. You continue to ignore that and just keep trudging forward pushing your narrative that one must participate in "live time jobs" to be helpful or validated.

cycling, algae and fish disease issues are the big three work thread opportunities I think.

There is no shortage of good, current and relevant information in this hobby regarding ANY of these topics. Your myopia and disdain for others prevents you from seeing its value. Open your eyes, this hobby is chock full of knowledgeable and helpful people that communicate here and elsewhere daily and have no desire or need to participate in "live work threads".

 

[BeanAnimal]

Brandon, what do you mean by this? if you please.

You clearly jest - of course you must know what "cycle prep jobs" are. How are you not up to date with the "new cycling science". Are you still stuck on "old cycling science"?

 

[ingchr1]

Fish disease work has a big big big need for live time jobs agreed...

Does this complete section of the forum not meet the requirements for "live time jobs"?

Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis

A forum for discussing treatment and diagnosing saltwater reef fish.

www.reef2reef.com

 

[sde1500]

The time I can spend on here is so minimal. Between my own hobbies, this included, my job, and my family there remains little time for all else. I guess I can lump this in to time spent on my hobby. Still, it’s minimal. I am far from unique in this aspect. I offer discussion and advice as I can. To offer the belief that unless we take this on as a “job” and only conduct our discourse and assistance via “work threads” our assistance is worthless is such unnecessary gate keeping for a free public forum used to talk about a hobby.

Your multiple long threads show that there are many that are engaged and helped by you. However, using that as a cudgel to dismiss any and everyone who doesn’t do the same is absurd. I think you would possibly find it valuable to step back and take a wider perspective. You’re inciting/inviting detractors to every thread you engage on. And it’s not because you’re on some cutting edge ahead of its time tech. It’s because you talk down to anyone unwilling to do exactly as you do, and are entirely unyielding in your approach to discourse. This thread entirely proves that. Yours or anyone else’s worth here is not determined by post count, work threads, or how many “jobs” we’re working for others. As the Internet kids say, it may be time to touch some grass.

 

[Paul B]

Sde1500. Who are you referring to here?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Sde1500. Who are you referring to here?

The only “live real time work” that you need or focused on is my fish sculpture… well your wife and then my fish sculpture.

 

[sde1500]

Sde1500. Who are you referring to here?

Ha, not you sir. You are nothing but welcoming to others. Your methods may be unconventional, but they speak for themselves and I would doubt many find that you use said experience to dismiss others. In fact, you are proof that there is more than one way to do things, something the author of this thread fails to realize.

 

[brandon429]

Yes agreed I had mentioned earlier that Jay and Randy do exclusively work threads
I don't have any idea about their home reefs. All the work logged from them is in other people's tanks. Agreed fully
Chem forum and disease forum are nearly exclusively all work threads

All the results they garner come summarized by other people, they don't produce their own results and then make that into an article.

Compared to the nuisance algae forum, there is no single producer of works there like Jay and Randy do in their forums.

only web posters and our forum peers run the nuisance algae forum because the article writers stay out of that place, they might be asked to produce live time results. Even the stickies there are from web posters, not published people who are reef teachers. Students do all the work there, it's a scary place for teachers in my opinion

 

[Thales]

Yes agreed I had mentioned earlier that Jay and Randy do exclusively work threads
I don't have any idea about their home reefs. All the work logged from them is in other people's tanks. Agreed fully
Chem forum and disease forum are nearly exclusively all work threads

All the results they garner come summarized by other people, they don't produce their own results and then make that into an article.

Compared to the nuisance algae forum, there is no single producer of works there like Jay and Randy do in their forums.

only web posters and our forum peers run the nuisance algae forum because the article writers stay out of that place, they might be asked to produce live time results. Even the stickies there are from web posters, not published people who are reef teachers. Students do all the work there, it's a scary place for teachers in my opinion

The work threads themselves in that forum need switching out, even our mods here hold up reefing evolution by never allowing any competing methods up top

Rip cleans beat any outcome set from any of those work threads but the mods won't sticky any and that's ok, we do our own work to keep threads up we don't need their nepotism heh

Jay and Randy are paid to be there and have authority in their forums

 

[Reefering1]

That person can be you Brandon. Work on your people skills and everything can't be a rip clean.. big tanks need reasonable answers too

 

[BeanAnimal]

Yes agreed I had mentioned earlier that Jay and Randy do exclusively work threads
I don't have any idea about their home reefs. All the work logged from them is in other people's tanks. Agreed fully
Chem forum and disease forum are nearly exclusively all work threads

They are not "work threads" - they just communicate with people, as does everyone else here. Your obsession with classifying communications by type vs content to assess validity is beyond puzzling.

All the results they garner come summarized by other people, they don't produce their own results and then make that into an article.

Huh? They are the only leaders and thinkers and the rest of the forum and community is just followers?

Compared to the nuisance algae forum, there is no single producer of works there like Jay and Randy do in their forums

First of all - they are the moderators and assigned experts to those two forums. Secondly, both of their expertises are rather specialized in a highly specific niche. It is, in essence "their job" that they agreed (paid or unpaid, whatever) to do. They did not get brow beat into it by a ranting detractor and are not out to "prove" themselves to you me, or anybody.

Now it makes sense! All of the pseudo science, coinage of terms and hubris... You want to be recognized as the "Randy" and "Jay" of cycling, except, that "cycling" is not that complex or specialized, nor is scrubbing algae off of rocks.

only web posters and our forum peers run the nuisance algae forum because the article writers stay out of that place, they might be asked to produce live time results.

Why keep slinging the back handed insults and brow beating people with "live time results"? I would surmise that many "experts" "stay out of that place" to avoid getting tangled up with you. This far in, it has to occur to you that most people are simply not interested in "working" the way that you want them to.

The work threads themselves in that forum need switching out, even our mods here hold up reefing evolution by never allowing any competing methods up top

It is a great conspiracy - the "mods" are holding up reefing evolution?

Rip cleans beat any outcome set from any of those work threads but the mods won't sticky any and that's ok, we do our own work to keep threads up we don't need their nepotism heh

I would argue that your "stuff" isn't "stickied" because it is predominately comprised of verbose rambling rants and attacks on everyone and everything and there is very little "sticky worthy" information that is too hard to weed out.

 

[crabgrass]

I would argue that your "stuff" isn't "stickied" because it is predominately comprised of verbose rambling rants and attacks on everyone and everything and there is very little "sticky worthy" information that is too hard to weed out.

I would argue that Brandon has provided a bunch of good points over the years that I have referenced that could be sticked. Cycling basics - and when to know when your tank is ready for a fish. And how Rip Cleans are a tool in your toolbox for nanos (although not the cure). However, those could be two stickies with about 5-20 concise bullet points. Not the current state of these threads.

 

[brandon429]

I like reading the various coping mechanisms in place for some posters, this thread must be very triggering to some

The jobs stacking up in pms are great, there’s no such thing as bad thread kick ups that’s for sure.

In chats there’s literally no arguments we just get to work. Same subject material, but wholly different tone in the private message thread. It’s two eager folks working together on the exact same subject matter that sent some folks off the rails here, that’s amazing reefing psychology to see in action. Two polar opposite human behaviors result from the same subject matter, it’s a running dichotomy live time.

 

[brandon429]

Rich

Randy and Jay do not prevent anyone from starting side work threads in their forum. Anyone can add new angles or discoveries. They’d welcome the posts. They do run the forums but they run them in ways that don’t make their info the exclusive method


The reason their methods rose to the top is because live time work is real business and there’s not much competition offering new and different methods in my opinion. If someone wants to run some claims in those forums, they’ll get the good level scrutiny.

consider humblefish. He branched off and started an entire new forum, talk about a work threader. Anyone reading here who wants live time jobs as their science can attain that in some way.

 

[brandon429]

Imagine how sick this would be as an article for anyone to produce and write:


Someone out there passionate about dinos control for example takes a year or two to prep an article. They don’t arrange a study in their lab, and then report that as excel charts in the end, instead they just go into help forums and send private messages to people offering them to be part of the article with their tank as the proofing.

Those people say yes and nobody even knows this is going on the whole time, it’s done in chat. Chats prevent the noise that comes from countering opinions that happen in all best practices posts up in the forums. You get to have those tanks run a controlled real-time method


The article writer collects pics and testimony along the way that they never produced, they came from the outbound test tanks


They do five or ten example tanks at once over the 12-24 mos that way some sort of ending stasis for the systems can be produced and summarized in the article, and we could check links on those posts as real time follow up from web forums. *The article blends trackable proofs from web forums*


And then bam: one day they just release an article about ten tanks that ran their method, the chats are available for posting in a summary thread to accompany the article / agreed upon by all parties / and the outcomes of the challenge tanks are reviewed. We can subscribe to the test tank owners from the forum, and follow that pros work test tanks.






my teacher in school always made us show how we got the answer, there’d be a live time work log by the author to show for procedural results in the article using an evaluation source they have no control over. That’s sick article material, there’s no other I’d rather see.


The reason my thread isn’t offensive imo: am trying to drive someone to make the article I want to see as a reef consumer.


pressing the strongest and most able to create work threads and run them live time is good for the hobby and it’s good for evolution of anything… in this case reef tank science that is transmissible and reproducible by typewritten word only is under review.


The end benefit to the hobby is the discovery of true best algae control procedures

So that when people read the article, their tank follows suit.

it’s not like I can find twelve different algae control work threaders to study, people need the collective push occasionally to step out of first person work and into live time thread work.

Today, new help threads will be posted in the nuisance algae forum

Who will take ‘em?

 

[Troylee]

Imagine how sick this would be as an article for anyone to produce and write:


Someone out there passionate about dinos control for example takes a year or two to prep an article. They don’t arrange a study in their lab, and then report that as excel charts in the end, instead they just go into help forums and send private messages to people offering them to be part of the article with their tank as the proofing.

Those people say yes and nobody even knows this is going on the whole time, it’s done in chat. Chats prevent the noise that comes from countering opinions that happen in all best practices posts up in the forums. You get pure guide proxy practice in private message work, and close up consequence for bad calls. It’s a great place to hone best practices


The article writer collects pics and testimony along the way that they never produced, they collect from others working their method and begin to arrange that into an article or a presentation


They do five or ten example tanks at once over the 12-24 mos that way some sort of ending stasis for the systems can be produced and summarized in the article, and we could check links on those posts as real time follow up from web forums. *The article blends trackable proofs from web forums*


And then bam: one day they just release an article about ten tanks that ran their method, the chats are available for posting in a summary thread to accompany the article / agreed upon by all parties / and the outcomes of the challenge tanks are reviewed. We can subscribe to the test tank owners from the forum, and follow that pros work






Just like my teacher in school always made us show how we got the answer, there’d be a live time work log by the author to show for procedural results in the article using an evaluation source they have no control over. That’s sick article material, there’s no other I’d rather see.


The reason my thread isn’t offensive to me as the poster is because I’m trying to drive someone to make the article I want to see as a reef consumer.

You seem to be all about it and have a serious passion for it… why don’t you write it?

 

[Thales]

I like reading the various coping mechanisms in place for some posters, this thread must be very triggering to some

The jobs stacking up in pms are great, there’s no such thing as bad thread kick ups that’s for sure.

In chats there’s literally no arguments we just get to work. Same subject material, but wholly different tone in the private message thread. It’s two eager folks working together on the exact same subject matter that sent some folks off the rails here, that’s amazing reefing psychology to see in action. Two polar opposite human behaviors result from the same subject matter, it’s a running dichotomy live time.

Yes, and you know other peopole do that both here in PM's and on other platoforms and in other ways. Your insistance on 'work threads' is killing most of whatever message you are trying to share.

Rich

Randy and Jay do not prevent anyone from starting side work threads in their forum. Anyone can add new angles or discoveries. They’d welcome the posts. They do run the forums but they run them in ways that don’t make their info the exclusive method

That is missing the point. Those two guys post here the way they do because they have authority and they are compensated.

The reason their methods rose to the top is because live time work is real business and there’s not much competition offering new and different methods in my opinion.

Not really, they were both respected before they started posting here.

If someone wants to run some claims in those forums, they’ll get the good level scrutiny.

Yep, authority and compensation make it much more likely that they will continue to contribute on the platform that is giving them authority and compensation. Many people have other places to be and things to do.

consider humblefish. He branched off and started an entire new forum, talk about a work threader. Anyone reading here who wants live time jobs as their science can attain that in some way.

As did I, and many other people, in many ways. R2R is not the only reef tank discussion venue in the world.

I'll go back to lurking now.