Why the trend to dry rock?

Jekyl

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Happy to be wrong about the method of acquiring live rock. I truly hope that's how people are acquiring. Unfortunately I've read a number of posts on R2R where people have mentioned taking from the ocean themselves. I suppose they're outliers though.
I've seen those posts too. It's usually people picking up rocks from shore (still illegal). The companies who are selling it usually have plots of ocean miles off shore and have to dive to retrieve it. These areas are paid for and regulated by Fish and Game and require permits.
 

Rmckoy

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I can't get over the fact that live rock is literally taking something from the ocean, an endangered resource, and selfishly putting it in your living room.

Seems a lot of people have no problem pulling stuff from the sea, but I'm not one of them. Dry rock because it's the only sustainable method.
Wouldn’t corals or fish be the same ?
I just read a article not long ago about saving the oceans , reefs .

There is also a documentary I believe on Netflix making the same comment .

how many people fish , eat fish ?
 

Jekyl

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Wouldn’t corals or fish be the same ?
I just read a article not long ago about saving the oceans , reefs .

There is also a documentary I believe on Netflix making the same comment .

how many people fish , eat fish ?
I know there are very strict rules on this also. Permits are required for fish and most if not all coral harvested from the ocean have to come from farms. These areas need permits and are not part of an existing reef. Rather are man made and grown.
 

Gedxin

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Wouldn’t corals or fish be the same ?
I just read a article not long ago about saving the oceans , reefs .

There is also a documentary I believe on Netflix making the same comment .

how many people fish , eat fish ?
I feel the same about coral and fish. I do my best to only purchase aquacultured.

As for eating fish...the majority is farm raised where I am. But I'll admit I do occasionally selfishly eat sushi.
 

Rmckoy

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Wouldn’t corals or fish be the same ?
I just read a article not long ago about saving the oceans , reefs .

There is also a documentary I believe on Netflix making the same comment .

how many people fish , eat fish ?
Their argument were stating we are the same buying corals and fish for our 100gal systems as the large companies collecting whales , killing dolphins , or net fishers collecting millions of fish .
 

burningmime

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Finally…the number one issue…FEAR. Every single time someone mentions live rock, people are jumping up and down yelling about numerous unwanted pests.
Really? I see most of the opposite. Whenever someone mentions dry rock, people will jump down their throats about how live rock is better, dino issues, and how long it will take to establish a dry rock system (the latter at least seems to be accurate).
 

Karen00

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Being a newb, I started with dry rock. A large reason was a fear of pests. Being new to the hobby and starting up my first tank was stressful enough. The thought of having to deal with pests was just too much to think about. Sure I might regret it but I'm two months in and all is fine so far. Also, I'm going slow, just fish at the moment. I might've had regrets from the start if I wanted to have corals immediately but that's not the case. Having said that once I have more experience then I might not have that fear/stress anymore about using live rock so my next tank might be a completely different setup.

What's exciting though is that I think I see coralline starting to develop. I purchased the purple dry rock to start my tank but not all of it was covered so there were some white patches when I added it. I just noticed a couple days ago the white patches are starting to look purple and the purple areas are starting to look darker purple. Is that possible? I haven't added any cuc yet, just a goby/shrimp pair so I don't know where the coralline came from. I've been reading on here that it either comes in on live rock or the shells of cuc. I think I also saw bottled stuff for seeding. Can it come in on fish?
 

Gedxin

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Being a newb, I started with dry rock. A large reason was a fear of pests. Being new to the hobby and starting up my first tank was stressful enough. The thought of having to deal with pests was just too much to think about. Sure I might regret it but I'm two months in and all is fine so far. Also, I'm going slow, just fish at the moment. I might've had regrets from the start if I wanted to have corals immediately but that's not the case. Having said that once I have more experience then I might not have that fear/stress anymore about using live rock so my next tank might be a completely different setup.

What's exciting though is that I think I see coralline starting to develop. I purchased the purple dry rock to start my tank but not all of it was covered so there were some white patches when I added it. I just noticed a couple days ago the white patches are starting to look purple and the purple areas are starting to look darker purple. Is that possible? I haven't added any cuc yet, just a goby/shrimp pair so I don't know where the coralline came from. I've been reading on here that it either comes in on live rock or the shells of cuc. I think I also saw bottled stuff for seeding. Can it come in on fish?

I don't think coralline can come in on fish, there doesn't seem any place it could live?

Do you see any on your walls or powerhead? That's generally where you'll notice it first.

Do you have a build thread or photos of the tank?
 

Karen00

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Caribsea LifeRock FTW. Have had really good luck with this stuff.
That's what I started with (my first tank). The dry stuff ( I don't know if it comes live as well). I love it so far but I'm only 2 months in. I will update this 9-12 months from now. Haha.
 

Karen00

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I don't think coralline can come in on fish, there doesn't seem any place it could live?

Do you see any on your walls or powerhead? That's generally where you'll notice it first.

Do you have a build thread or photos of the tank?
Thanks for this!! There's nothing on the glass and I'm still using the stock pump which is hidden in an AIO so I'm not sure. I'm just starting my build thread (2 months after the fact, haha) but stupid me didn't take white light pictures in the beginning to better see the transition. All the pics are blue and nothing close up. I just happened to look at the rock a couple days ago (under the blues) and suddenly thought the white areas looked more purple so I turned on the white lights and I'm definitely thinking it looks purple but... if it usually starts on the glass then maybe it's wishful thinking on my part or maybe it's the start of something else. Haha. I will get some white light pics and post them.
 

mermaid_life

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My first tank I did all live rock because dry rock just wasn't as mentioned back then. I went through so much algae and pest issues.... I treated with a bunch of chemicals because that's what was recommended to me.... I felt like I destroyed a lot of the beneficial bacteria etc that was supposed to be the best part of live rock. It was either that or break down the whole tank. I remember being very frustrated.

My second tank I went with all dry rock. It was a MUCH cleaner process for me personally. No specific algae every got completely out of control. The only thing that was new that I didn't have to deal with the first tank was dinos, but now I feel comfortable dealing with that too.

Oddly, this second tank was also better at keeping nitrates and phosphates low. I really don't know why. The first tank was able to accept sps earlier for sure though. Loss of pros and cons with both.

If I were to start a new tank now, I would start with dry rock and put live rock in the sump.
 

Bouncingsoul39

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BRS created the trend with their youtube video that scared people away from it with a boogeyman of hitchhikers. They led the push from there selling cheap dead rock with more videos pushing it.
They are good business people and realized that people only want to buy live rock from LFS and don’t want to pay the hefty shipping fee so they killed the part of the hobby.
The LFS I ran sold hundreds of pounds of real ocean live rock every month and it was a bread and butter item for us and we had no customers with dino outbreaks.

It’s not only BRS though to be honest. There was a large marketing push in the hobby against live rock and no one stood up and said hey “live rock is what started the successful keeping of SPS corals and made the hobby better and easier as a whole” No content argument was provided by anyone so live rock became unpopular and the trend went towards dead rock even though the have so many issues and long maturation process no one has put 2+2 together.
Look at my build thread and see a tank started with real ocean live rock at 3 months old vs. a dead rock tank at 3 months old and the results speak for themselves.
 

Garf

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This is going to be very controversial but using excessively porous materials is a mistake in dry rock set ups. It encourages detritus settlement and anchor points for algae’s such as bryopsis. There is really no need to try and replicate reef base materials in a glass box in our living rooms.
 

burningmime

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This is going to be very controversial but using excessively porous materials is a mistake in dry rock set ups. It encourages detritus settlement and anchor points for algae’s such as bryopsis. There is really no need to try and replicate reef base materials in a glass box in our living rooms.
I've never heard that before. It sort of makes sense if there are variable-sized pockets where detritus would get trapped. Marco rock isn't super porous, but it definitely could fill up with waste.

Would that also apply to bio-bricks and stuff like that deisgned to give a place for beneficial bacteria to live?
 

Garf

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I've never heard that before. It sort of makes sense if there are variable-sized pockets where detritus would get trapped. Marco rock isn't super porous, but it definitely could fill up with waste.

Would that also apply to bio-bricks and stuff like that deisgned to give a place for beneficial bacteria to live?
Indeed, if the pore size is small. I’ve had live rock, it’s a trap for waste. In our tanks we don’t have the luxury of 1000000 litres an hour of dulution, like in a reef.
 

Karen00

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BRS created the trend with their youtube video that scared people away from it with a boogeyman of hitchhikers. They led the push from there selling cheap dead rock with more videos pushing it.
They are good business people and realized that people only want to buy live rock from LFS and don’t want to pay the hefty shipping fee so they killed the part of the hobby.
The LFS I ran sold hundreds of pounds of real ocean live rock every month and it was a bread and butter item for us and we had no customers with dino outbreaks.

It’s not only BRS though to be honest. There was a large marketing push in the hobby against live rock and no one stood up and said hey “live rock is what started the successful keeping of SPS corals and made the hobby better and easier as a whole” No content argument was provided by anyone so live rock became unpopular and the trend went towards dead rock even though the have so many issues and long maturation process no one has put 2+2 together.
Look at my build thread and see a tank started with real ocean live rock at 3 months old vs. a dead rock tank at 3 months old and the results speak for themselves.
Ironically I only heard/read about pests on rocks from members on here posting emergencies. :) That's what turned me off. To be fair the pests might have come in from something other than the rock, but they were on the rock as part of the emergency. I bought my dry rock from my LFS because there was no way I was paying for shipping even though it was dry!! Haha.
 

_sludgefactory

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IMG_20210813_195931_DRO.jpg


1 year old, Caribsea Shapes and Coral Tree. Zero algae problems due to proper husbandry. Plenty of biodiversity from frags and other coral purchase. You don't think it's a reef, I don't care. Anyone in this hobby that speaks in absolutes should be ignored. Do what works for your situation, and your experience.
 

mwilk19

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I will say it’s a good thing we have options in the hobby. Few pics of my bare bottom dry rock tank from 2014 before I got sick at that time and took it down. Some might not like this tank at all, maybe say it’s not a reef tank, but I enjoyed it a lot.


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Looks like a beautiful reef tank to me.
 

StPatrick89

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Seems every “emergency”, algae issue and fish issue on here has a tank with a dry rock start up. Is it fear of pests? To me they can be managed and even eliminated with patience. The benefits of live rock far outweigh them in my humble opinion. I started mine with 7 year old rock from a sump from a guy who was tearing down. Had vermitid snails and aptasia as well as tons of sponges and a few mushrooms. Well, a year later after treating the aptasia with aptasia-x, none to be found. Added a bunch of bumblebee snail, vermitids gone. Fully established ecosystem that has been growing SPS since the second month. Not to start a war but why deal with all the issues dry rock presents?
It’s cheaper… would rather start my tank then wait around for over $300 worth of rock when I can only spend $80. That’s literally enough to buy 2-4 more other things when first starting
 

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