Will adding Purigen help limit water changes?

[Miami Reef]

@Lavey29

Does Chemipure Blue contain actual Purigen inside of it?

 

[Lavey29]

@Lavey29

Does Chemipure Blue contain actual Purigen inside of it?

The million dollar question. If you look at history on fish forums. Some say yes others say no.

I'm guessing if I put powder from each product next to each other none of us would be able to clearly identify one from the other, resident expert included.

 

[Miami Reef]

The million dollar question. If you look at history on fish forums. Some say yes others say no.

I'm guessing if I put powder from each product next to each other none of us would be able to clearly identify one from the other, resident expert included.

Is it true that both of you agree that ChemiPure Blue and Purigen contain a polymer, but cannot determine exactly which polymer is in either?

 

[KrisReef]

Chemi pure Blue:

• Contains two high-grade hybrid ion exchange resins to produce a synergistic formula for the health and well-being of your aquarium inhabitants

Purigen:

Purigen® is a premium synthetic adsorbent that is unlike any other filtration product. It is not a mixture of ion exchangers or adsorbents, but a unique macro-porous synthetic polymer that removes soluble and insoluble impurities from water at a rate and capacity that exceeds all other competing products by over 500%.

These two products are very different. Anyone who has done a blind taste test between hen will tell you this

Do not try this at home, it may not come out well.:rolleyes:

 

[Lavey29]

Is it true that both of you agree that ChemiPure Blue and Purigen contain a polymer, but cannot determine exactly which polymer is in either?

Or does chemipure just use a modified version of purigen to avoid any patent protection like a generic for a branded drug.

 

[nickng]

Will adding Purigen to my filters help limit water changes to just one per month in my 55 gallon FOWLR tank?

Not effective at all. GFO in a reactor will remove the phosphate and nitrates best removed with algae scrubber or cryptic zone. I have a cryptic zone instead that never sees bright light or exposed to air and has a slow flow going over easily 10 to 20 pounds of true coral reef rock covered in sponges and the bacteria there consumes my nitrates. I also run a large tunze skimmer downstream of the cryptic zone. You can also dose “nopox” or equivalent vodka concoction to help the bacterial activity as well. Small amounts of 1to2 ml a day will eventually help

 

[nickng]

Will adding Purigen to my filters help limit water changes to just one per month in my 55 gallon FOWLR tank?

By the way does your setup have a sump of at least 1/2 the volume of your tank. In this case a sump of 25 to 30 gallon volume?

 

[Tamberav]

Also agree with no

but...

you could do one larger water change a month on a FOWLR... just do a bigger amount that is needed based on your tests and match salinity and temp instead of weekly smaller ones.

It is FOWLR so it doesn't need to be as stringent as corals but I would still keep the water acceptable to limit potential bacterial infections should a fish injure itself and such.

 

[Dan_P]

Will adding Purigen to my filters help limit water changes to just one per month in my 55 gallon FOWLR tank?

What are you trying to achieve with water changes?

 

[Malcontent]

Purigen is probably just some tannin removal resin that Seachem buys in bulk, repackages, and resells at a huge markup.

Tannin Anion Resin - Purolite TANEX Macroporous 1 cu.ft.-90T

www.softenerparts.com

 

[TheAquaNerd]

Will adding Purigen to my filters help limit water changes to just one per month in my 55 gallon FOWLR tank?

In my experience it won't remove enough to negate a water change. However combined with a consent water change regiment and feeding times ( an auto feeder can help with this) can help stabilize levels and make them more predicable I also recommend feeding frozen one constant days and times. Just like us these animals create routines/have instincts on feeding. The more rigid the routine is, the less waste there seems to be. Quailty of foods will also matter. I maintained 40+ commercial and residential systems as a maintenance manager. We used it on all our accounts. I have recently begun experimenting with using it in higher quantities to see just how much it may take to lower levels in a detectable amount.

I have switched the way I utilize Purigen though. I have, begun running it through a media reactor. One thing I have noticed is the rate in how quick it absorbs the organics is significantly. It is also the clearest I have ever seen tank water.

I am a platinum trained Seachem specialist btw.

As far as the one month goes, once you find your equilibrium as long as you don't change how much you putting in you can create a routine that is sustainable on a monthly basis. We ran Many accounts once a month without issues. Testing and varying water exchange amounts can help you figure this out.

@Randy Holmes-Farley
Thoughts on blue vs purigen? Reasons for choosing one over the other?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Or does chemipure just use a modified version of purigen to avoid any patent protection like a generic for a branded drug.

Generic drugs are exact equivalents of the drug to allow them to be approved without clinical testing. They do not have modifications of the drug to avoid patent infringement.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

@Randy Holmes-Farley
Thoughts on blue vs purigen? Reasons for choosing one over the other?

Chemipure blue has some claims related to the ion exchange resins that will only be true in freshwater (such as phosphate binding).

Both Purigen and Chemipure blue will bind organics, but may bind slightly different sets of organics.

Since Chemipure blue already contains GAC, if you are already using GAC and would continue to do so, I’d pick Purigen.

If I were to use Chemipure blue I’d think of it as not a lot different than just using GAC. The ion exchange resins don’t do much useful in seawater except bind some organics.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Is it true that both of you agree that ChemiPure Blue and Purigen contain a polymer, but cannot determine exactly which polymer is in either?

I would agree with that, with the added bit that if the polymer is the same, one (or both) of the companies are literally lying (not just stretching the truth) in their descriptions.

 

[Miami Reef]

I would agree with that, with the added bit that if the polymer is the same, one (or both) of the companies are literally lying (not just stretching the truth) in their descriptions.

I believe a manufacturer claim can give some insight to what the product is.

If both companies give 2 different purposes of their products, it’s likely they aren’t the same product.

Sometimes we can use reasoning and logic to form educated opinions.

 

[Lavey29]

Generic drugs are exact equivalents of the drug to allow them to be approved without clinical testing. They do not have modifications of the drug to avoid patent infringement.

Right, got it

How are generic drugs different from brand-name drugs?

• Inactive ingredients: Generic drugs may contain different inactive ingredients than brand-name drugs.
  
  
• Appearance: Generic drugs may differ in shape or color from brand-name drugs.

And of course there is

• Biosimilar companies can also try to avoid infringement claims by omitting or modifying information in their drug labeling that is protected by patent.
  
  
• Biosimilar companies can also launch "at risk" or settle with the original drug's sponsor to avoid active patents.
  

Biosimilars are biological products that are very similar to an FDA-approved drug. They can make therapies cheaper and more widely available.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Right, got it

How are generic drugs different from brand-name drugs?

• Inactive ingredients: Generic drugs may contain different inactive ingredients than brand-name drugs.
  
  
• Appearance: Generic drugs may differ in shape or color from brand-name drugs.

And of course there is

• Biosimilar companies can also try to avoid infringement claims by omitting or modifying information in their drug labeling that is protected by patent.
  
  
• Biosimilar companies can also launch "at risk" or settle with the original drug's sponsor to avoid active patents.

Biosimilars are biological products that are very similar to an FDA-approved drug. They can make therapies cheaper and more widely available.

Not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing, but generic drugs are always chemically identical. They are never drug modifications to avoid patents. They can be put into different colored or sized or shaped tablets or capsules.

 

[Lavey29]

Not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing, but generic drugs are always chemically identical. They are never drug modifications to avoid patents. They can be put into different colored or sized or shaped tablets or capsules.

.internet

Generic and biosimilar applicants can often avoid infringement-of-method claims by omitting or carving out from their drug labeling indications or information that is protected by patent. By omitting such information, the applicant usually has a strong argument that it is not “inducing” infringement (ie, not teaching or encouraging doctors or patients to practice the method claimed in the patent).

I said generics can tweak certain things to avoid patent infringement. You said they can't. Obviously generics and biosimilars do.

Makes you wonder if chemipure tweaked the purigen concept ever so slightly and now calls it a novel approach.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

.internet

Generic and biosimilar applicants can often avoid infringement-of-method claims by omitting or carving out from their drug labeling indications or information that is protected by patent. By omitting such information, the applicant usually has a strong argument that it is not “inducing” infringement (ie, not teaching or encouraging doctors or patients to practice the method claimed in the patent).

I said generics can tweak certain things to avoid patent infringement. You said they can't. Obviously generics and biosimilars do.

Makes you wonder if chemipure tweaked the purigen concept ever so slightly and now calls it a novel approach.

You can post false or twisted info all you want. You are still wrong. I have patents on several drugs I invented and have spent countless hours with high end patent attorneys dealing with lawsuits with generic drug companies, and as an expert witness in such lawsuits. I understand these issues in great detail.

This thread has gone off the rails and is no longer helping anyone. I will not respond further.

 

[Lavey29]

You can post false or twisted info all you want. You are still wrong. I have patents on several drugs I invented and have spent countless hours with high end patent attorneys dealing with lawsuits with generic drug companies, and as an expert witness in such lawsuits. I understand these issues in great detail.

This thread has gone off the rails and is no longer helping anyone. I will not respond further.

That info comes copy and paste from national library of medicine website but of course he is wrong also right? Would you like the complete link to reference and then make adjustments to your incorrect statement?

Pharmaceutical Patent Litigation and the Emerging Biosimilars: A Conversation with Kevin M. Nelson, JD - PMC

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov