Worms as food

[Afishionado]

Wow!!!

 

[Paul B]

I buy the blackworms in a LFS the white worms I bought a culture someplace on line and they re produce. The Grand Kids I had little to do with, that was mostly my Daughter. But they are cute.:nod:

 

[Davesgt]

I believe im gonna also try those blackworms, interesting.

 

[Reef Fever]

im not refuting your experiences, just simply wondering, why would you feed the worms such un-nutritious foods? its like gut-loading feeder insects for my reptiles, i feed them what i think would be healthy for the reptile to consume. I wouldn't imagine cheerios and spam being the best thing for them. why not try feeding the worms things like seaweed. something a bit more nutritious and natural for the fish.

and as far as the fish breeding can you 100% without a doubt say its the worms? maybe its been a combination of luck and good husbandry? I don't mean to be rude but i have a scientific background, so until more than one person can yield the same results i wouldn't write it off as fact.

Again I didn't mean any of this in a mean/condescending/demeaning/etc. way..just thoughts that came to mind on this topic

 

[Titus]

What's a good source for live blackworms?

I would regularly buy blackworms from the LFS for my Discus when I lived in California, but I have not been able to find them at any LFS in the DFW area.

 

[aklee987]

So did you feed your daughter black worms so she could make the grandkids?

 

[fishroomlady]

that's funny

 

[joseg]

Very interesting post Paul B . One question... white worms you use are Grindal worms??

Thank you.

 

[Paul B]

Again I didn't mean any of this in a mean/condescending/demeaning/etc. way..just thoughts that came to mind on this topic

Reef Fever. I never take anything on a fish site as condescending or demeaning, I also never argue as it is a fish site and not that important. I don't sell worms or have any stake in any company that sells worms and it is not for me to say to anyone to feed worms to anything. I only report on what I do and I have some experiences in this. In 1971 salt water fish became available in New York City. I bought 7 of the first blue devils imported.
They seemed healthy but at that time all fish had ich and I had to keep copper pennies in the water to control ich as there was no copper medication. I had those fish a couple of years and they ate, swam around and did fish things.
At that time there was no specific salt water food and some foods were still dried ants.
I used to feed my fresh water fish live worms and they were spawning so I tried them on the blue devils. In 2 weeks one of the fish developed blue fins. The rest of the fish remained with clear fins. The one with the blue fins started chasing the other fish (females) and they started to mate. They spawned every few weeks for the 7 years I had those fish, and that was in 1972 when almost no one even heard of tropical salt water fish. From then on, I fed live worms every day.
My tank is now 43 years old with some 23 year old fish.
I don't think you will find an older tank with all the fish spawning. I also don't have to quarantine and I add fish from many stores including the sea that I collect myself.
This is that tank with those blue devils circa 1972


This is that male blue devil over his nest of eggs in that gooseneck barnacle shell



These are his eggs in that shell.



This is all from worms. But like I said, I don't care if anyone feeds worms or Cheerios. :smokin:

Grindal worms are a little smaller. The blackworms are filter feeders and won't eat seaweed. They suck up bacteria so it doesn't matter what you feed them as long as it rots. Sometimes I give them mashed potato powder. They are a nice color, nice and fat and if you look close, you can see them smiling.
I have been doing this for 60 years and those are my experiences. Do anything you like with that information, but whatever you do, Have fun. :high5:

I don't mean to be rude but i have a scientific background, so until more than one person can yield the same results i wouldn't write it off as fact.

Do you know of a lot of scientific studies that last 60 years?

 

[joseg]

Ok, aren´t grindals... thanks Paul B. Maybe Enchytraeus Albidus worms??


Thanks again

 

[ETORRES477]

Hey Paul,

Great post on feeding fish live worms. I am a relative newbie compared to you, going on 4 years in the hobby. Started off with a 46 gallon bowfront folwr, and im still in the process of setting up my 150 gallon reef over the past four months. I am always interested in your post when I see them, i'm especially fond of your 40 year tank birthday post which just keeps going and going like the energizer bunny. In this hobby you get so many different opinions on basically any topic you can think of in the hobby, so I tend to take advice from people that learn from experience. Anyway, my question for you is how do your inverts and coral fair given that you have treated with copper in the past? I took notice of your mention of how you used to always dose copper back in the day, and now how you put copper pennies in the tank early on when copper was not available. You also mentioned in your 40 year tank birthday post how you still have the same substrate you started the tank with. So many people in the hobby talk about how once you treat your tank with copper you can never have a reef. Yet your tank seems to thrive, and I have also seen others who have converted to reefs from fish only tanks they treated with copper, keeping the same rock that was in copper treated water. And some of these tanks look pretty awesome and appear to be not only sustaining corals and inverts, but thriving. How have you and others achieved success after copper treatment, did you use any of the copper removal methods some advise to do, or did you just stop treating and wait a while before adding inverts and coral? Inquiring minds want to know lol.

 

[Reef Fever]

Reef Fever. I never take anything on a fish site as condescending or demeaning, I also never argue as it is a fish site and not that important. I don't sell worms or have any stake in any company that sells worms and it is not for me to say to anyone to feed worms to anything. I only report on what I do and I have some experiences in this. In 1971 salt water fish became available in New York City. I bought 7 of the first blue devils imported.
They seemed healthy but at that time all fish had ich and I had to keep copper pennies in the water to control ich as there was no copper medication. I had those fish a couple of years and they ate, swam around and did fish things.
At that time there was no specific salt water food and some foods were still dried ants.
I used to feed my fresh water fish live worms and they were spawning so I tried them on the blue devils. In 2 weeks one of the fish developed blue fins. The rest of the fish remained with clear fins. The one with the blue fins started chasing the other fish (females) and they started to mate. They spawned every few weeks for the 7 years I had those fish, and that was in 1972 when almost no one even heard of tropical salt water fish. From then on, I fed live worms every day.
My tank is now 43 years old with some 23 year old fish.
I don't think you will find an older tank with all the fish spawning. I also don't have to quarantine and I add fish from many stores including the sea that I collect myself.
This is that tank with those blue devils circa 1972


This is that male blue devil over his nest of eggs in that gooseneck barnacle shell



These are his eggs in that shell.



This is all from worms. But like I said, I don't care if anyone feeds worms or Cheerios. :smokin:

Grindal worms are a little smaller. The blackworms are filter feeders and won't eat seaweed. They suck up bacteria so it doesn't matter what you feed them as long as it rots. Sometimes I give them mashed potato powder. They are a nice color, nice and fat and if you look close, you can see them smiling.
I have been doing this for 60 years and those are my experiences. Do anything you like with that information, but whatever you do, Have fun. :high5:



Do you know of a lot of scientific studies that last 60 years?

Thanks for the info I may give it a try myself, again wasn't trying to refute anything just gain a firmer understanding. I was unaware how blackworms processed foods. And yes a few studies, not a ton but there are some, they just have evolved with time lol (many linked to climate data, as thats my field).

 

[nivram]

Paul,

I'm also a fan of feeding fish live black worms. I have also found that they help fatten fish up. I bought a Naoko wrasse pair in which you could see the female's head and body had that pinched in look. After a couple weeks she was nice a plump and started to get gravid. I ended up getting rid of them but have been told they spawn regularly in a friends tank.

Thanks for sharing your experiences and knowledge. I think I will try the white worms when the weather cools down again. The wife doesn't like worms in the house

 

[Mike in CT]

I feed a premium frozen food that is considered top shelf, but I still have a few fish that won't touch it. But if I throw in some live black worms.... Forget it!! Even the finicky ones are battling fish 10 times their size trying to grab those worms!

 

[Paul B]

So many people in the hobby talk about how once you treat your tank with copper you can never have a reef.

Probably 90% of the people in this hobby have been in it for two years or less and if you treat a tank with copper, two years may not be long enough to rid the tank of copper especially if you want to put in inverts. But the people who feel that copper will exude out of the rocks to kill your inverts years later are mistaken. The fact that it does exude out of the rocks proves that it can be eliminated with water changes. Especially 5 years later. How much copper do you think rocks could hold? In 5 years, if you change water 6 times a year, that is 30 partial water changes. The copper will be at a level of NSW and will not affect the inverts. And I cringe when I read that copper gets infused in silicone. Even water doesn't get infused in silicone which is why it was picked to seal tanks. Most of what you read in this hobby is theory brought about by rumors started by noobs to the hobby that lost some inverts and blame copper, phases of the moon, global warming or Supermodels for their loss.

Nivram, thank you. My wife works out 4 times a week so I don't keep worms in my refrigerator. They are only in my workshop. My wife feels that she would rather have me home looking at worms than hanging out at a bar for retired Supermodels.
Mike, premium frozen food just means expensive frozen food and it is a good product. I use some frozen food myself, usually just Mysis but a large portion of the world can't get live food so they have to resort to frozen food which is almost as good as live food. But almost may not be good enough if you want your fish spawning and resistant to diseases. If you read through these forums most of the posts are about problems and a large part of those are about diseases. Live foods IMO eliminate most of those problems. I like to use the immune system of the fish to protect them rather than copper, prizeapro, TC caps, and all those remedies that I have not used in decades. A fishes immune system works very well against almost everything but it only works if the fish are eating what they are supposed to eat. What they eat in the sea, and that is live food.
Most, if not all frozen foods consist of fish fillets, shrimp tails, scallop and squid. These foods are not bad but the parts of those foods that they add are not the right parts. The fish need the bones and guts, that's where the nutrition is. We as humans don't eat those parts (at least I don't) but fish in the sea don't spit out the bones, scales, eyes, brains and guts. If a fish gets eaten in the sea or a tank, which parts are eaten right away? The eyes and guts, the muscle is saved for last as there is little nutrition in that. That is the part we eat. :usa2:

 

[ETORRES477]

Hey Paul, Don't know if your still following this thread, but I hope you are. I took your advice and have added daily feedings of live black worms to my feeding regiment. I found them at an LFS and almost all of my fish love them, except for my dragonettes and purple tang, I think the tang is confused by them and will come around eventually. I wanted to start a white worm culture as you did, but I am having difficulty getting hold of a distributor that sells them. I found a grindal worm culture on ebay, are they the same thing as white worm? If not do you think you could post the link where you obtained your culture from? It would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Ed

 

[Paul B]

I think grindal worms are smaller but I never used them. I just googled "white worm culture" and found the place I got mine, but I don't remember where that was.

 

[thormx]

I picked some up here:
http://www.fishgobble.com/product/white-worm

 

[ETORRES477]

Thanks for the link thormx, just ordered my culture today! My fish love the blackworms, that is their main daily meal. Looking forward to adding the white worms to their diet. Thank you for sharing your knowledge Paul.

 

[Eienna]

Do you think I could raise blackworms in an oversized fine-mesh breeder net in my 125g FW tank?