Worried about Palytoxins

Snoopdog · Mar 7, 2023

Spare time said:
I wouldn't worry. The issue is more if they are being ripped up.

Those are nuclear greens, almost certain. Those are the ones that sent me to the hospital.

As long as your hands are just in the water, no issue really. It is actually touching the paly itself that is the problem.

Spare time · Mar 7, 2023

Snoopdog said:
Those are nuclear greens, almost certain. Those are the ones that sent me to the hospital.

As long as your hands are just in the water, no issue really. It is actually touching the paly itself that is the problem.

I figure only the maitenance people would be in the tank with their hands. OP could sell that rock though or swap it out if that eases their mind

Cthulukelele · Mar 7, 2023

If it makes you feel better, despite decades of reefing there's not a single documented death related to palytoxin in the hobby. The only for sure exposures that were serious were caused by people boiling rock with palys on it and inhaling the fumes. Most of the palytoxin poisoning stories you hear on the internet read more like nasty infections than palytoxin poisoning.

SBerry · Mar 7, 2023

Thanks so much for the replies everyone! Good to get some advice from people in the know, there's a lot of conflicting info around on aquarium pages and random websites talking about it.

It seems it should be ok to leave as is. I will have a chat to our aquarium service people about their procedures, but I don't think we need to remove them entirely from the tank.

Again, thanks for your time in replying.

Snoopdog · Mar 8, 2023

SBerry said:
Thanks so much for the replies everyone! Good to get some advice from people in the know, there's a lot of conflicting info around on aquarium pages and random websites talking about it.

It seems it should be ok to leave as is. I will have a chat to our aquarium service people about their procedures, but I don't think we need to remove them entirely from the tank.

Again, thanks for your time in replying.

Just keep in mind Nuclear greens grow at an alarming rate, they will crowd out just about any species and if you do decide to get rid of them you have to be extremely diligent.

a.t.t.r · Mar 8, 2023

Cthulukelele said:
If it makes you feel better, despite decades of reefing there's not a single documented death related to palytoxin in the hobby. The only for sure exposures that were serious were caused by people boiling rock with palys on it and inhaling the fumes. Most of the palytoxin poisoning stories you hear on the internet read more like nasty infections than palytoxin poisoning.

Also really creepy and screwed up dreams by a whole group of people collecting them in Florida except for the one person who wore dive gloves.

Snoopdog · Mar 8, 2023

Cthulukelele said:
If it makes you feel better, despite decades of reefing there's not a single documented death related to palytoxin in the hobby. The only for sure exposures that were serious were caused by people boiling rock with palys on it and inhaling the fumes. Most of the palytoxin poisoning stories you hear on the internet read more like nasty infections than palytoxin poisoning.

Excuse me?

I did not boil any rocks and I have documented proof of my 4 member family going to the hospital, and a very sick feline that needed treatment. Just a quick search brought up this guy and I put little effort into a search. I very carefully documented my experience and got a nice fat hospital bill after my recovery.

https://www.inforney.com/local-news...cle_1986e774-756a-11eb-9a0c-a3f502f79c3e.html
And this guy documented a very close experience to my own with dry rock, not boiling anything.

https://reefbuilders.com/2018/03/13/palytoxin-nearly-killed-my-family-and-pets/

a.t.t.r · Mar 8, 2023

Snoopdog said:
Excuse me?

I did not boil any rocks and I have documented proof of my 4 member family going to the hospital, and a very sick feline that needed treatment. Just a quick search brought up this guy and I put little effort into a search. I very carefully documented my experience and got a nice fat hospital bill after my recovery.

https://www.inforney.com/local-news...cle_1986e774-756a-11eb-9a0c-a3f502f79c3e.html
And this guy documented a very close experience to my own with dry rock, not boiling anything.

https://reefbuilders.com/2018/03/13/palytoxin-nearly-killed-my-family-and-pets/

Sorry but no.... If the rock was that contaminated imagine the house that it must have come from dude would have died taking the rock out of the tank.
Plus you have 0 evidence that it was palytoxin or any toxin related. palythoa also do not make much toxin. You are more likely to be exposed by Dinos.

Snoopdog · Mar 8, 2023

a.t.t.r said:
Sorry but no.... If the rock was that contaminated imagine the house that it must have come from dude would have died taking the rock out of the tank.
Plus you have 0 evidence that it was palytoxin or any toxin related. palythoa also do not make much toxin. You are more likely to be exposed by Dinos.

That is quite a reach. There is zero doubt in my mind why we ended up in the hospital. I guess all the reports of palytoxin poisonings is just a myth and it was the shrimp salad that just I had at lunch put my entire family in the hospital.

On another note, you are making a claim that this was all my imagination and have yet to put any information toward that claim. I at least did a 2 minute google search with at least some information to support my claim, not to mention I was there you know, getting breathing treatments.

laezur · Mar 8, 2023

Snoopdog said:
That is quite a reach. There is zero doubt in my mind why we ended up in the hospital. I guess all the reports of palytoxin poisonings is just a myth and it was the shrimp salad that just I had at lunch put my entire family in the hospital.

On another note, you are making a claim that this was all my imagination and have yet to put any information toward that claim. I at least did a 2 minute google search with at least some information to support my claim, not to mention I was there you know, getting breathing treatments.

To be completely fair, he said there were no documented deaths... you didn't die

Snoopdog · Mar 8, 2023

laezur said:
To be completely fair, he said there were no documented deaths... you didn't die

Never did. But he did say this...

The only for sure exposures that were serious were caused by people boiling rock with palys on it and inhaling the fumes.

I did not boil any rocks. I do not lightly consider anything remotely probable or fact unless I gather all of the evidence I can find and then take my time coming to a conclusion. There is no doubt in my mind what sent me to the hospital. Arguing with people over the internet is a huge waste of time since you guys already have your minds made up on what happened. One thing will keep happening though, there will be more of these cases over the years and they will likely always remain random and a small percentage of the reefers that it happens to, but it will keep happening.

Cthulukelele · Mar 8, 2023

Snoopdog said:
Excuse me?

I did not boil any rocks and I have documented proof of my 4 member family going to the hospital, and a very sick feline that needed treatment. Just a quick search brought up this guy and I put little effort into a search. I very carefully documented my experience and got a nice fat hospital bill after my recovery.

https://www.inforney.com/local-news...cle_1986e774-756a-11eb-9a0c-a3f502f79c3e.html
And this guy documented a very close experience to my own with dry rock, not boiling anything.

https://reefbuilders.com/2018/03/13/palytoxin-nearly-killed-my-family-and-pets/

I should have included the only for sure exposures that I've read about or heard of that were verified by hospital staff were caused by people boiling rock. My goal wasn't to invalidate your experience and I'm sorry it felt that way. My goal was merely to comment that of the millions of people who have handled and grown palys over the years very very very few end up getting ill and of the people who end up ill a lot of the symptoms reported aren't even hallmark symptoms of palytoxin poisoning. I'm glad you made a recovery

AKReefing · Mar 4, 2024

92Miata said:
Palytoxin takes a lot of blame for things.
Palytoxin poisoning typically presents as respiratory issues.

Maybe rightfully so. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26270061/

mdk16 · Dec 1, 2024

I know this is an older thread but wanted to add in hope of helping others. I did a major maintenance on our tank over the holiday weekend. I cleaned out the back pump chamber of our rsm 650. A ton of detritus (10 years worth) made its way into the main display. Within an hour after turning on the protein skimmmer our entire family and dog started to feel the effects of palytoxin. Sore throats, respiratory issues, head aches, lethargic, I was sneezing and coughing. We have several colony’s of paly’s mostly Capt Jerks and some zoas. I never heard of playtoxin going airborne unless you boil rocks etc. I have been reefing for 20 years and never had an experience like this. We took our dog to the emergency vet and they had us call poison control. There’s virtually nothing anyone could do for this toxin. Luckily by the next day the dog was better and my family is feeling better but still coughing. I know some will say it’s impossible but there is literature on protein skimmers having the ability to put this toxin into the air. I would understand if I was sick because I was in the tank all day but it hit the entire family. My wife wants the tank gone. I want the capt jerks out but am hesitant to mess with them until things calm down. I added a bunch of carbon to neutralize. Also lost a beautiful tang in the process. Be careful and don’t underestimate this toxin.

Snoopdog · Dec 1, 2024

mdk16 said:
I know this is an older thread but wanted to add in hope of helping others. I did a major maintenance on our tank over the holiday weekend. I cleaned out the back pump chamber of our rsm 650. A ton of detritus (10 years worth) made its way into the main display. Within an hour after turning on the protein skimmmer our entire family and dog started to feel the effects of palytoxin. Sore throats, respiratory issues, head aches, lethargic, I was sneezing and coughing. We have several colony’s of paly’s mostly Capt Jerks and some zoas. I never heard of playtoxin going airborne unless you boil rocks etc. I have been reefing for 20 years and never had an experience like this. We took our dog to the emergency vet and they had us call poison control. There’s virtually nothing anyone could do for this toxin. Luckily by the next day the dog was better and my family is feeling better but still coughing. I know some will say it’s impossible but there is literature on protein skimmers having the ability to put this toxin into the air. I would understand if I was sick because I was in the tank all day but it hit the entire family. My wife wants the tank gone. I want the capt jerks out but am hesitant to mess with them until things calm down. I added a bunch of carbon to neutralize. Also lost a beautiful tang in the process. Be careful and don’t underestimate this toxin.

It sucks dude, read my story above yours here.

Yep, it sucks man, I can still remember most of what happened up until we hit the hospital. The days after that are a bit of a blur. I remember the guy that admitted scratching his head, calling poison control and getting nowhere. The looks on their faces when I was explaining what I think poisoned us was frustrating. Looking back though I am glad we seem to be okay now, but I do question if we will have any long term damage to our bodies from it. To this day I still find one of those nuclear greens on our rock, they just pop up where it seems from nowhere. Our tank is still around 30% palys and I will not change that, but I respect them way more now. I wear glasses when handling them and never prune more than just a couple in a day to not tick them off.

Chrisv. · Dec 1, 2024

This thread should be required reading for anyone new to the hobby.

Snoopdog · Dec 1, 2024

Chrisv. said:
This thread should be required reading for anyone new to the hobby.

When I mention what happened to me to other people in the hobby I do not get the reaction I would expect.

SpyC · Dec 1, 2024

Snoopdog said:
When I mention what happened to me to other people in the hobby I do not get the reaction I would expect.

Ibam always told I am the reason I dealt with palytoxin poisoning. All I did was bag up some palys for a customer. Something iddone a thousand times. No harassment of them, no touching of them, no fragging, but somehow I messed up and it was impossible for me to experience palytoxin poisoning through this manner. As much as I want zoas and palys, I can't do it anymore. Too much of a risk imo.