Your Resident Electrician for all your electrical questions!
- Thread starter Young Frankenstein
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Yes. And I will... But I like to do my homework beforehand, and this is part of it. I also thought other people here would benefit of a discussion on surge protectors...
Anyways, I was just wondering what are the thoughts on this type 2. I am also interested on a type 1 but I am not sure how difficult will be to have those installed here where I live, since the power company needs to be involved to make sure the power for my service panel is shut off for installation (I will call them this week). As for right now I am relying only on type 3 for some of my equipment, that might be enough, but I would feel safer adding a type 2 to the system.
michaelrc51
Active Member
Honestly, I am not sure. I am pretty well versed in a lot of electrical applications but I really couldn't tell you much about what or if you should use a large surge protector. I would think it couldn't hurt but no clue if they are actually effective.
If they work I would say to use one. However, I do a lot of low voltage work and most of the surge protectors we use are throw away stuff and I am not even 100% sure they are at all effective.
Maybe someone with more experience with these devices can chime in.
Jdgreef24
Active Member
This question is going to be much simpler than what's been posted here so far. On a very high up view...I expect to be moving into an apartment in the next few months and beginning my 125g build including a controller and all the wonderful things we reefers get to plug into sockets. This will be my most expensive and planned build but first time with a build in an apartment. I'm far from an electrician so would you imagine I'm going to run into a lot of trouble considering the power needs of the tank Vs. the single general circuit it may be on and the inability to add another circuit? I'm going all out but if it's just not going to happen in an apartment then maybe I'll keep shopping for a home lol.
bobman
Well-Known Member
You should be fine I have a 150 full blown reef running on one circuit in my house. All I added was a gfci outlet to the wall. Never had any issues till last night I run leds for lighting in both the display and the refugium but wanted to add some t5s just for color. Got a used small fixture and plugged it up and bam pop the gfci. Reset it turned the fixture on and bam blew it again. I know the light works but still cant rule out the fixture. As far a your situation goes I believe its going to be the GFCI that will be your limiting feature and not the circuit itself.
michaelrc51
Active Member
No offense bud but I think you should really think about what you are saying.
Your fixture could be bad or you could be overloading that circuit by adding that fixture. You should plug that fixture into a different circuit and see what happens. If the fixture is no good it will trip the breaker no matter what.
You should also do a load calculation. The total max current should not exceed 80% of that circuit. If you are over that you run the risk of tripping your GFCI at any time.
My assumption......is that your circuit is overloaded and adding that fixture is creating your problem.
bobman
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately that is the only GFCI in my house but I will be picking up another one to test it on. I know a standard outlet, the light works. Load draw I have done and I am by far a pro like you so if my math is wrong let me know but what I have is
Description/ Consumption
Mars aqua LED 165 Watt/ 165 Watts
Mars aqua LED 165 Watt/ 165 Watts
Mars aqua LED 165 Watt/ 165 Watts
Mag drive 9.5 Pump/ 97 Watts
Mag drive 9.5 Pump / 97 Watts
Rio 2800 Pump/ 73 Watts
Wish wave Maker / 12 Watts
Wish wave Maker / 12 Watts
Total: 786 Watts
This is less than half of what a 15 amp GFCI should be able to handle from as far as I know and tossing 2 t5 at 54 watts each still will not even come close to that ceiling. Thats why I told poster above he could do a 125 on a single circuit but he will be limited. However there are plenty of reefs out here running with just the basics like me wish plenty of success and this can be done on a single circuit. But again you are limited on what you can run and how much you can run. At 786 and add on the 2 t5 thats only 894 watts so if I needed to run a reactor I should have enough room left to do so safely. Corrrect me if I am wrong but the ceiling a 1650 watts on a 15 amp breaker subtract 20% for the warm and fuzzy feeling when you leave the house the ceiling would be 1386 watts.
Description/ Consumption
Mars aqua LED 165 Watt/ 165 Watts
Mars aqua LED 165 Watt/ 165 Watts
Mars aqua LED 165 Watt/ 165 Watts
Mag drive 9.5 Pump/ 97 Watts
Mag drive 9.5 Pump / 97 Watts
Rio 2800 Pump/ 73 Watts
Wish wave Maker / 12 Watts
Wish wave Maker / 12 Watts
Total: 786 Watts
This is less than half of what a 15 amp GFCI should be able to handle from as far as I know and tossing 2 t5 at 54 watts each still will not even come close to that ceiling. Thats why I told poster above he could do a 125 on a single circuit but he will be limited. However there are plenty of reefs out here running with just the basics like me wish plenty of success and this can be done on a single circuit. But again you are limited on what you can run and how much you can run. At 786 and add on the 2 t5 thats only 894 watts so if I needed to run a reactor I should have enough room left to do so safely. Corrrect me if I am wrong but the ceiling a 1650 watts on a 15 amp breaker subtract 20% for the warm and fuzzy feeling when you leave the house the ceiling would be 1386 watts.
michaelrc51
Active Member
On a 15amp 120volt circuit max load is 1800 watts and then 1440 ways if you take the 20% into account.
My guess is that the initial startup of the ballast is much greater than the 54 watt RMS rating. Also, I would think maybe a few of your devices might possibly take a bit more than what they are rated at. Generally some devices are under rated but still you aren't close to the 1440 watts which is only 80% so theoretically you are fine.
What I gather, mostly from the reef communities I visit is that for some reason the ballasts need to have a lot of extra current for start up or they can trip the GFCI. I think this is just due to their particular wave and the power they initially draw on start up.
Are you sure there isn't anything else on that circuit?
By circuit I mean entire circuit, not just what is plugged into that receptacle.
My guess is that the initial startup of the ballast is much greater than the 54 watt RMS rating. Also, I would think maybe a few of your devices might possibly take a bit more than what they are rated at. Generally some devices are under rated but still you aren't close to the 1440 watts which is only 80% so theoretically you are fine.
What I gather, mostly from the reef communities I visit is that for some reason the ballasts need to have a lot of extra current for start up or they can trip the GFCI. I think this is just due to their particular wave and the power they initially draw on start up.
Are you sure there isn't anything else on that circuit?
By circuit I mean entire circuit, not just what is plugged into that receptacle.
bobman
Well-Known Member
Only other thing on that circuit is a night light in the bathroom hall way but when I get home I will double check to make sure there are no outlets I am not aware of. However I did not think about the juice required for startup. My pumps might burn more than they are rated for but the leds are dimmed down and the third one is in my sump which does not even run the blues at all and the whites are at minimum to even turn on. I have a new GFCI I was going to hook up and run to the tank on the same circuit as the other GFCI. I just never hoked it up didnt need the extra outlets. It could also be a crappy GFCI outlet as that one on the tank I have no idea how old it is. It was there when I got the house. I have been there 5 years so it is older than that. Maybe I just need to replace it. Thanks for the feed back anyway. I really would like to run these t5 lights as with the tank at 30" deep the leds on the display have to be cranked all the way and seems a little to bleached for my liking. I figured a couple t5 purple and blue actinics would be perfect. That is if I can get them to fire without shutting down the tank lol.
I am trying to build a T5 LED hybrid but bit confused with wiring the ATI dimmable ballast with lights end cap. It has a extra wiring port named brown so a bit confused how to wire this. Image for reference...
Brown is a common wire on both lamps. The dot indicates the wires are connected at that point.
On the left lamp, wire reds to both pins on one end, and on the other end one pin goes to yellow as shown, the other to brown.
On the right lamp, wire blues to both pins on one end, and on the other end one pin goes to yellow as shown (but the other yellow terminal), the other to brown (same brown)
On the left lamp, wire reds to both pins on one end, and on the other end one pin goes to yellow as shown, the other to brown.
On the right lamp, wire blues to both pins on one end, and on the other end one pin goes to yellow as shown (but the other yellow terminal), the other to brown (same brown)
I would think that you want the grounding probe connected to your house ground, but IIRC a surge protector ground point would still be continuously connected to ground (meaning, if it trips, the ground connection is still there but the line & neutral are disconnected...but I could be wrong)
MCooper
MCooper
What is best for putting an outlet in the wall for my tank? What exactly does one tell an electrician is needed so to provide the best and safest electrical outlet for my home and tank? So confused by this stuff.
Heavy duty 20A rated GFCI. It will cost more but it's worth it.
Hello, I have a question:
I have a 1000w 60 hz Tridonic OGLIS ballast and corresponding ZRM-20 ignitor that I'm ready to wire up here in the US. It will drive a Radium 20k bulb. I have a 70 uF motor run capacitor to use with it. I understand the wiring diagram I was provided with, but I was told by the folks at Tridonic to "make sure to use 5kv double insulated wires between the ignitor and the bulb, otherwise the current may jump." They were unable to provide me with any further details about the wire type. "Ask an electrical supply store."
I plan to use 12 AWG wire throughout. I understand 12 is overkill, but I'm not concerned with paying a few bucks more for a beefier cable.
I will have the ballast hooked up to a NEMA 6-15 connector, which will plug into my digital timer. I've chosen a hospital grade (green dot) NEMA connector capable of 10 AWG. Again, I understand it's overkill, but I don't mind.
My question is this: what *type of cable/wire is best to use when wiring this ballast? I understand 12 AWG, but there seem to be a million different types. They come in various colors with different jacket materials, different layers of insulation, conductor material, number of conductor strands, etc. There seem to be a ton of different acronyms that aren't helping me any. Can you provide me with as specific of a recommendation as possible? Perhaps with a link to where I can buy the cable online? And what about the 5kv double insulated wire they recommend for the run from the ignitor to the bulb and back? Again, as specific as possible would be appreciated.
Thank you for helping to clear this up. I want to make sure I do this properly. I want to use the best wire for the job.
I have a 1000w 60 hz Tridonic OGLIS ballast and corresponding ZRM-20 ignitor that I'm ready to wire up here in the US. It will drive a Radium 20k bulb. I have a 70 uF motor run capacitor to use with it. I understand the wiring diagram I was provided with, but I was told by the folks at Tridonic to "make sure to use 5kv double insulated wires between the ignitor and the bulb, otherwise the current may jump." They were unable to provide me with any further details about the wire type. "Ask an electrical supply store."
I plan to use 12 AWG wire throughout. I understand 12 is overkill, but I'm not concerned with paying a few bucks more for a beefier cable.
I will have the ballast hooked up to a NEMA 6-15 connector, which will plug into my digital timer. I've chosen a hospital grade (green dot) NEMA connector capable of 10 AWG. Again, I understand it's overkill, but I don't mind.
My question is this: what *type of cable/wire is best to use when wiring this ballast? I understand 12 AWG, but there seem to be a million different types. They come in various colors with different jacket materials, different layers of insulation, conductor material, number of conductor strands, etc. There seem to be a ton of different acronyms that aren't helping me any. Can you provide me with as specific of a recommendation as possible? Perhaps with a link to where I can buy the cable online? And what about the 5kv double insulated wire they recommend for the run from the ignitor to the bulb and back? Again, as specific as possible would be appreciated.
Thank you for helping to clear this up. I want to make sure I do this properly. I want to use the best wire for the job.
5kV wire is typically what is used in constant-current airport lighting applications, like runway and taxiway lighting. Ask me how I know! Answer: I'm an EE.
Anyways, you will not likely find this at your typical big box store or even Ace or True Value. You're going to have to go to an contractor supplier for that, you might find it at Grainger or someplace like that, but your best bet I would say would be to call Southwire http://www.southwire.com/ and ask them A) what they carry that would take care of this and B) where you can get it locally.
Typical 12AWG wire is 600V rated. Don't use it if the manufacturer recommends 5KV double insulated. 12AWG insulation will break down just like they say
Anyways, you will not likely find this at your typical big box store or even Ace or True Value. You're going to have to go to an contractor supplier for that, you might find it at Grainger or someplace like that, but your best bet I would say would be to call Southwire http://www.southwire.com/ and ask them A) what they carry that would take care of this and B) where you can get it locally.
Typical 12AWG wire is 600V rated. Don't use it if the manufacturer recommends 5KV double insulated. 12AWG insulation will break down just like they say
Paul B
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Just tell the electrician what you are planning to run and tell him it has to do with water. He will know what to do. We electricians went to high school and everything.
MCooper
MCooper
hahaha thanks man. Electrician is a great guy and knew as you said. I just wasn't sure if anything crazy I am not aware of or is normally not done I needed to tell him.Just tell the electrician what you are planning to run and tell him it has to do with water. He will know what to do. We electricians went to high school and everything.
Thanks for your reply. The manufacturer only recommends the 5kv double insulated wire for the run from the ingnitor to the bulb and back (a short distance of less than 3 ft). He said I could even get away with 16 AWG for the rest of the ballast wiring., but I don't mind spending a few extra bucks for a thicker gauge wire, hence my decision to go with the 12.
However, I'm still a little confused. I obviously know to use copper, but should I use solid or stranded? 'Soft bare' or 'tinned?' When I search for "ballast wire" on the site you provided (Southwire), the only result that shows up is CL 1251/AWM 3173. It looks like they have it available in 12 gauge, so I'm pretty sure this is the one I should go with. Can you confirm?
Thanks again.
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