Zoanthid Palyanthid Light Absorption Chart

[ZoWhat]

@Dana Riddle

I've looked for the last day for some kind of exclusive study on zoas/palys and their light spectrum ABSORPTION.....

.... a chart showing the light BELL-CURVE to maximize their zooxanthellae

The more I look the more confused I get.

Is there a light spectrum chart specifically for zoas/palys?

 

[Dana Riddle]

@Dana Riddle

I've looked for the last day for some kind of exclusive study on zoas/palys and their light spectrum ABSORPTION.....

.... a chart showing the light BELL-CURVE to maximize their zooxanthellae

The more I look the more confused I get.

Is there a light spectrum chart specifically for zoas/palys?

I don't keep zoanthids but a good LFS has many. Next time I go there, I'll take my spectrometer and a reflectance standard and measure. It will probably vary due to absorption of fluorescent proteins. The LFS is really good about letting me analyze their tanks, but might have to break down and have a zoa in my tank.

 

[ZoWhat]

@Dana Riddle

You da man. You are so helpful and so knowledgable, R2R wouldnt be half the great website without you around helping us

 

[Dana Riddle]

@Dana Riddle

You da man. You are so helpful and so knowledgable, R2R wouldnt be half the great website without you around helping us

You are too kind, but Thank You!

 

[Superlightman]

hello,what were the results?

 

[A. grandis]

The great majority of zoanthids are from very shallow waters, but can also be found in scuba depths too. Mostly very shallow thought. They like quality light with strong intensity and full spectrum (~6500 - 1400K), low nutrients, and good water flow. There was a thread a while ago where I posted many tips on zoanthids and showed some videos here:

Are these zoas light starved?

I have these gobstopper zoas and after a few months of growth I notice their stalks are rather long. Is this a sign of too little light or is this normal as zoas grow? They've also been closed for a couple weeks due to dino irritating it. Heres before and after. (They are mostly closed right now...

www.reef2reef.com

Try to search in the zoa forum too. I used to post there every day for a while to help back in 2017 I think, but I got tired of the posts asking for cartoon names' IDs and never went back there.

 

[Superlightman]

THANKS

 

[A. grandis]

THANKS

You're very welcome! Just don't believe in those who say they absolutely love only blue light. That is a myth! You don't find blue light over tide pools around the tropics!!!!

 

[oreo54]

@Dana Riddle

I've looked for the last day for some kind of exclusive study on zoas/palys and their light spectrum ABSORPTION.....

.... a chart showing the light BELL-CURVE to maximize their zooxanthellae

The more I look the more confused I get.

Is there a light spectrum chart specifically for zoas/palys?

That's because it IS confusing..
Let's just take environmental differences vs physiology: See attached

Or this..

Favia sp. reached maxima of up to 130 to 140 % of incident
irradiance in the upper 0.0 to 0.1 mm of the tissue
(data not shown)
The scalar irradiance spectra exhibited distinct minima
at absorption wavelengths of the major zooxanthellae
chlorophylls (chl a at 675 to 680 nm, chl c at
625 to 640 run). A shoulder in the spectra around
590 nm was probably due to a secondary absorption
maximum of chl c (Shibata & Haxo 1969). Carotenoids
caused a broad absorption band at 450 to 550 nm with
shoulders in the spectra at 480 to 490 nm and at 540 to
550 nm indicating the presence of the dinoflagellate
carotenoid peridinin (cf. Halldal 1968, Shibata & Haxo
1969).

The photosynthetic performance of the zooxanthellae
is highly dependent on the coral tissue light
field. Scattered light is important for the zooxanthellae
and results in a higher light intensity and a different
spectral composition of light in the coral tissue than
expected from the incident irradiance. Scalar irradiance
is thus the most relevant light intensity parameter
in relation to zooxanthellae photosynthesis.

Changes in coral pigmentation directly affect the amount of solar energy absorbed by the symbiotic algae and potentially used in photosynthesis. Scleractinian corals have been recognized as one of the most efficient solar energy collectors (Enríquez et al., 2005) and users of this energy through photosynthesis (Rodríguez-Román et al., 2006), thanks to multiple scattering of light on coral carbonate skeletons. The extraordinary optical properties of scleractinian corals vary among skeleton morphologies (Terán et al., 2010; Marcelino et al., 2013; Enríquez et al., 2017), colony growth-forms (Anthony et al., 2005; Enríquez et al., 2017), coral pigmentation (Enríquez et al., 2005; Wangpraseurt et al., 2012), and differences among symbionts in their chlorophyll-specific absorption coefficient, a* (Wyman et al., 1987; Dubinsky et al., 1990; Lesser et al., 2000; Stambler and Dubinsky, 2005; Hennige et al., 2009).

Changes in the Number of Symbionts and Symbiodinium Cell Pigmentation Modulate Differentially Coral Light Absorption and Photosynthetic Performance

In order to understand the contribution of pigmented coral tissues to the extraordinary optical properties of the coral-symbiont-skeleton unit, we analyzed the associations between structural and optical traits for four coral species, which broadly differ in skeleton morphology, tissue thickness...

www.frontiersin.org

seems complicated..
Action spectra are really still dependent on any number of factors that change with environment/morphology/physiology.

Assuming an action spectrum of an Acropia vs Zoas (or any other species containing like plants) to be similar isn't out of the realm of reality .
An "action spectrum" is sort of a broad brush approach.

See post #17
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/par-zoas-are-getting-enough-or-not.189683/

A reminder:

Palytoxin Poisoning: Marine Aquarium Safety | SA Health

Palytoxin poisoning: Zoanthid coral species can contain Palytoxin and cause dangerous symptoms if not handled carefully. Protect your family with these aquarium tips.

www.sahealth.sa.gov.au

Sorry, a bit scatted but hopefully you can get something out of the above and attachments.

 

[oreo54]

A "better" question is how "much" light does one need vs "quality".
Just an example, wrong species.

 

[blasterman]

You're very welcome! Just don't believe in those who say they absolutely love only blue light. That is a myth! You don't find blue light over tide pools around the tropics!!!!

Sunlight is composed of the same weighted blue light any other place on earth, and the zooxanthellae in zoanthids and palys have the same spectral requirements as any other coral. Lots of blue or red...not much in the middle.

You could put a 6500k light above your reef tank and everything would grow fine but it would make your zoas and palys look brown.

I don't care for heavy actinic black light paly / zoa tanks either, but the only difference between them and more conventionally lit reef tanks is 100 royal blue vs 90/10 royal blue / else.

I've grown out massive paly / zoa gardens via all types of light sources including halides, PC's, T5's, all kinds of LEDs including DIY and spectrum DOESNT MEAN SQUAT. If it's a typical blue heavy reef light source you are fine. It's either more light or less light. There is no other axis on the graph.

Palys / and zoas are far more sensitive to transient bacterial blooms and erratic nutrient levels. Changing your program in your fancy multi channel LED light betwen different spectral peaks won't accomplish anything.

 

[A. grandis]

Sunlight is composed of the same weighted blue light any other place on earth, and the zooxanthellae in zoanthids and palys have the same spectral requirements as any other coral. Lots of blue or red...not much in the middle.

You could put a 6500k light above your reef tank and everything would grow fine but it would make your zoas and palys look brown.

I don't care for heavy actinic black light paly / zoa tanks either, but the only difference between them and more conventionally lit reef tanks is 100 royal blue vs 90/10 royal blue / else.

I've grown out massive paly / zoa gardens via all types of light sources including halides, PC's, T5's, all kinds of LEDs including DIY and spectrum DOESNT MEAN SQUAT. If it's a typical blue heavy reef light source you are fine. It's either more light or less light. There is no other axis on the graph.

Palys / and zoas are far more sensitive to transient bacterial blooms and erratic nutrient levels. Changing your program in your fancy multi channel LED light betwen different spectral peaks won't accomplish anything.

You're very funny... for the past 25+ years I've been testing all the possibilities I could to find the very best way to color my zoanthids to attain the real pigments that I can also find in nature where I collected them, and the "whiter" the bulb was, the more variety of real pigments the zoanthids would produce. Best light to produce the widest range of pigments found in the ocean was what we call ~65K - ~14K (which has also BLUE!!!), like found where those specific zoanthids were collected in nature. The Bluer spectrum from bulbs, with a very narrow blue range like many do, provided also a noticeable narrower range of variety of pigments produced at the same time. Their growth was slower. The bluer spectrum offered a different visual appearance than the "whiter" because of the noticeable fluorescence, naturally (which many choose to call "colors").
I'm totally against changing that fancy multi channel LED" that you mentioned. I actually think that is what has been reducing the quality of this hobby seriously!! People just don't know what they do and think PAR alone is what they should follow!!!
Zoas love full spectrum light and will develop the same pigments developed when found in their original places when strong and proper sunlight is offered. I choose metal halides and T5s to be the very best one can offer to zoanthids. The common denominator in my opinion is what we call "14K" bulbs.
I prefer to stick with what I've been working for the past 25 years.
Different results for different people.

 

[Dana Riddle]

Very quickly - I have meetings today (wish I didn't). When in Hawaii, I collected zoanthids from a blow hole (where a wave's water is forced into a vertical tube and creates a 'geyser' for want of a better word.)These zoas were growing on a rock that was only occasionally wetted (of course they stayed wet). They lived in full strength sunlight for part of the day.
Oreo - thanks for the Acropora photosynthesis chart - it looks like photosaturation is about 300 PAR.