★I am ALIVE★ (PLEASE READ) ★Tank almost ★Electrocuted★ me★ ( GFCI never Tripped ...MISSING GROUND PROBE) Passing on Lesson to All Reefers

[WallyB]

I thought I would freshly post this in the New Reef Tank Beginners Section.

I'm about to fix things after experiencing dangerous situation with my Tank Setup. (but wanted to share this while it's fresh in my head)

I'm an Electrical/Electronic Computer System Engineer and I know a bit about Electrician Stuff too (but little about how GFCI outlets work)

I had some luck today as I prepared to put both my arms into my Tank to clean up and add corals.

During Prep I spilled some water as I was preparing and my rubber Crocks got a bit wet, so it connected my feet electrically to my Basement Floor (which is a raised subfloor, but enough water spilled to also drip onto the Concrete Floor (GROUND).

I was scooping some more water using a jug when I felt a tingle at my finger tips.
Then I touch the tip of my finger to tank water and felt a much stronger electrical pulse.

So I got my AC volt meter and with one end on Ground (Concrete Floor), I touched THE (+) lead of my volt meter to water and I got 96 Volts reading.

THE TANK was High Voltage and Dangerous!!! Could kill !!!

I got insulated goves. Put on my best insulated shoes, and had son at the Main House breaker while I tested things.

With the Voltmeter on tank, I started one by one pulling plugs (I have many)….
Almost no plugs left in outlets, and after moving things around, ( the VOLTGE rose to 110Volts).

Finally two plugs left, I removed the Next one and VOLTAGE went away. I found the Fault.
It was my sea swirl water oscillator. It was wet and dripping from inside. Inside I know is a small AC motor and there are O-Ring in connectors, so they wore out. Probably a drip inside.

That was puzzling since I have a GFCI outlet and a ground probe. So I looked from my Ground Probe which was in Sump.
But it was missing. It fell out and was behind sump. Possibly jarred loose during maintenance.
I put back the Ground Probe, and plugged in the Faulty Sea Swirl (RIGHT AWAY the GFCI protection SHUT EVERYTHING OFF).

I've learned a similar Lesson before, so my tanks have always been protected by GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Intertupt OUTLETS).
What I learned a few years ago, is GFCI doesn't always work, if there is no Ground Probe to Ground the Tank water.

Over the years, pumps, heaters have cracked and caused High Voltage in my systems, and most of the time GFCI would trip and turn off AC power (with GFCI and Ground Probe).

What I ALSO learned a few years ago is an Urchin chewed thru a wire insulation and stripped the AC Wire to copper. That electrified my tank but since the Heater Like most heater don't have a ground pin plug (ie 3 Prong), the tank was 110Volts. I had no ground probe, and GFCI didn't trip since HEater had no ground to trigger GFCI.

GFCI outlet don't work if TANK isn't grounded, and HOT wire voltage electrifies the Tank.
If your (hands to feet) become the ground CONNECTOR, it may trip the GFCI. BUT will it work, will if be fast enough, that is something I don't plan on testing.

So I'm about to BOLT/Tie-Wrap that ground PROBE back into my setup. All my ground probes since I have one is each sump and one in each tank (except one, which I will also now add).

Hope you all have a Safe Reefing Experience for many years.


If you have "NO GROUND PROBE" on your setup you run a risk of a ZAP or electrocution.

I you have "NO GFCI on your SETUP" You may DIE SOME DAY (or maybe someone you care about)


----------------- NOV 26 ---- UPDATE --- 3 DAYS LATER -----------------

Did a video Testing how GFCI vs GFCI with Ground Probes (Works and Does Not work)

** When a Heater Fails, AC Pump Fails, or Urchin Chews up your AC Power Cord **

** THIS IS ALSO not just your Tank/SUMP...Applies to where you mix up water, and heat it and can have spills **



More discussion below about GFCI, and Probes.

 

[phatduckk]

dang! Glad you’re ok. And thanks for gene safety lesson!

 

[Dsnakes]

Wow. Glad you are ok. Thank you for bringing this to everyone’s attention.

I don’t think it’s something many people think about.

 

[Omgitsjoe]

@ChelseaBidwell

 

[Jeeperz]

Was this a GFCI outlet or breaker? When was the last time it was tested? They do have to be routinely tested to ensure proper function.

 

[vetteguy53081]

ground probe is a must especially with saltwater.

 

[WallyB]

Was this a GFCI outlet or breaker? When was the last time it was tested? They do have to be routinely tested to ensure proper function.

It's a GFCI, and I do try to test a few times a year.

BUT READ the DETAILS of my NOTE. GFCI doesn't always work without TANK GROUNDED (with a Ground Probe too)
Just because you test works, (which is a ground fault simulation), the GFCI won't work (to shutdown your tank) if no Ground.

I have both, but Ground probe fell out during last maintenance (I guess)

 

[MERKEY]

Glad you are ok and thank you for posting this!

 

[WallyB]

I am still a bit shaken up, since I was going to really put my arms DEEP into tank while Standing on Stool (after raising the Lights)

Not going to do that tonight till I fully check things over.

This is my setup that I re-did just a year ago.

I spent like 3 months doing a RENO and did Super Neat Wiring.

Tidy Wiring is important (It helped me find the problem quickly TONIGHT).

But Tidy wiring isn't enough. You need proper GFCI wiring (which MUST INCLUDE A GROUND PROBE).
A proper REEF TANK ground probe is made of Titanium, NOT Copper since Copper is bad for Salt Water Tanks.
For $20 a good probe will make your tank safer. Ignore any wives tales that say Ground Probes have negative effects on Fish/Corals. Better Fish then negative on you. (Better to fix any stray voltage then ignore things by having no ground probe).

 

[WallyB]

Just in case anyone is wondering.

THIS IS A REEF TANK GROUND PROBE.



Don't worry, you are not plugging in your tank in AC power.

The two regular PINS for AC are just PLASTIC holders.

The Middle Ground is what is connected tot he Titanium TIP that goes into your Tank Water.

 

[Jeeperz]

You still didn't mention GFCI outlet or GFCI breaker but it doesn't really matter. This is one reason I don't understand why they make some equipment without a ground prong (3 prong). If the equipment was 3 prong, and the GFCI was tested and functioning, then it would have tripped when the fault happened. So point 1. Only use 3 prong equipment if it's inside your tank. Point 2. TEST YOUR GFCI REGULARLY. They do fail, especially the cheap outlets. Doubled up and use GFCI outlet and a GFCI breaker

 

[Quietman]

Surprising to me how ubiquitous electricity is in our homes and yet most do not understand the basics of grounding and current flow. Excellent lesson well communicated!!! Glad you came away safe.

Side note (and had some electrical experience from Navy days)...why do we always touch it twice to make sure we got shocked? I've done the same exact thing a couple of times. Lol

 

[Tamberav]

I was mixing salt and had spilled some... Standing in it barefoot ofc.... Then got a good shock up the arm when I touched the water and the GFCI tripped (was mixing in the bathroom). Turns out the glass heater broke.

I put GCFIs on all my tanks after but will look into this probe too. I think most of my equipment is grounded but going to check it!

 

[WallyB]

I won't Let an "Almost Electrocution" SPOIL The Frag Mounting FUN

I checked all other Probes, GFCI....All good.

I fixed up the loose Probe to be 100% Solid Both Ends.

I planned this Frag Mounting FUN for this Weekend for a COUPLE OF Weeks (Getting Collection Together)

These babies are going in Tonight as Planned.

Will post the New Tank look soon. On my Thread.

 

[WallyB]

You still didn't mention GFCI outlet or GFCI breaker but it doesn't really matter. This is one reason I don't understand why they make some equipment without a ground prong (3 prong). If the equipment was 3 prong, and the GFCI was tested and functioning, then it would have tripped when the fault happened. So point 1. Only use 3 prong equipment if it's inside your tank. Point 2. TEST YOUR GFCI REGULARLY. They do fail, especially the cheap outlets. Doubled up and use GFCI outlet and a GFCI breaker

Sorry, I read your comment as a COMMON Breaker, OR GFCI PLUG. I only have a GFCI Plug (which works), not a GFCI breaker.

Maybe Double GFCI is safer if either GFCI isn't working. I still like the GFCI protection closer to Tank VS far away at breaker in some room behind a door/wall or far away.

But 2 or 10 GFCI's in series won't make things safer (with 3 Prong Plug) if no GROUND PROBE. (And Ground isn't Exposed on the 3 wire cord, under Water).

I hear you, about 2 Pronged Plugs, but it really depends on how things fail.
If a heater leaks, it should have a Ground inside to TRIP GFCI before it fills up. That is a dumb design.

But a Pump Cracking like my Hydro Koralia (3 of them), all replaced by Manufacterer for free (After Warranty)
If the Epoxy seal goes, and only wired exposed is the Hot Wire, but not the Ground, the Ground is useless for GFCI trip.
You still need a GROUNDED Tank (Water) to mitigate a partial Crack.

Another Example of a 3 Prong/Wire FAILING GFCI Trip....is when my urchin chewed thru the Insulation of the HOT Wire and not the Ground, or Neurtal wire. GFCI would not trip if Tank isn't GROUNDED. (And you get zap if you are Grounded)

 

[Brian_68]

A GFCI does not need a ground probe to work. If your GFCI was working most likely the shock you felt was not enough to trip it, but it certainly will wake you up. It does not take much to feel it in saltwater even if it is not enough to trip the GFCI. It looks at an imbalance from neutral to hot not to the ground so a current thru your body will trip it if high enough. No difference than dropping a 2 prong hair dryer in a bathtub, it will trip to save you without a third grounded plug.

 

[WallyB]

Surprising to me how ubiquitous electricity is in our homes and yet most do not understand the basics of grounding and current flow. Excellent lesson well communicated!!! Glad you came away safe.

Side note (and had some electrical experience from Navy days)...why do we always touch it twice to make sure we got shocked? I've done the same exact thing a couple of times. Lol

Well the first touch was my finger tips (Which have dry winter cracks), so I thought it was Salt Sting.
I was really careful on the next touch.

But I hear you. I've touched twice before on purpose (Dumb). LOL... Not recently.

 

[Brian W]

@wallyim what GFCI outlet do you recommend? Link? Im in an upstairs apartment so I cant really modify anything or change breakers. Also should i put a ground probe in my sump and display? Im sure I only need it in my sump but just thought I'd ask. Last question. Do I plug the ground probe straight into the wall or do I plug it into the GFCI out let and then my apex and everything else into the GFCI outlet as well? Thanks. Sorry for all the questions.

Im glad you are alive to teach others from this experience. I've only been reefing 3 years and have never really thought a ground probe or GFCI was "that important". Thank you from opening my eyes. I will make sure all of my reefing buds get ground probes and GFCI on their tanks if I have to buy it myself and physically install it on their tanks myself!

 

[thewalkingdad]

Just added a ground to my Amazon cart!

 

[WallyB]

A GFCI does not need a ground probe to work. If your GFCI was working most likely the shock you felt was not enough to trip it, but it certainly will wake you up. It does not take much to feel it in saltwater even if it is not enough to trip the GFCI. It looks at an imbalance from neutral to hot not to the ground so a current thru your body will trip it if high enough. No difference than dropping a 2 prong hair dryer in a bathtub, it will trip to save you without a third grounded plug.

@Brian_68

I don't agree. (BASED ON EXPERIENCE, NOT Expertise)
Please Elaborate. I'm not criticizing your comment, I want to be educated.

You may be right, but nobody shouldn't provide in-accurate information (including what I a said, that one needs a ground probe).

So let's get this right. I would like to know.
And we can conclude this thread with "Everyone Educated Properly".

Can you provide a article, link from an educated/reputable source to say GFCI will work with a Tank that is not grounded. (How does that work)?
In your house, you have GFCI near sinks/Tubs, and they are grounded by the Copper Pipes that run water to taps.

I've tested many times after similar events.
For example Tonight, I plugged back in my Fault Device, and NO trip.
I drop in Ground Probe and instant Trip.

I don't care if Balance or Imballance, the concern is Human Safety, and I kept getting shocked without the Ground Probe.
GFCI was working since it tripped with Ground Probe.

I think if tank is ground by some other way, that is where GFCI works. Like sitting on Floor or Metal Stand.
If a Tank is Raise on Isulated wood, the it's not Grounded, so without a device Cracking/breaking and exposing Ground, how is GFCI suppose to Send the Current to Ground?

I'm not and GFCI expert. Are you?
I go by what I observed and my Electronics Engineering, not Electrician background.