Dinoflagellates - dinos a possible cure!? Follow along and see!
- Thread starter twilliard
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Evening all.
First post though have been a regular reader of this site for a long time.
One thing I can say is I don't think heat increases a chance of a bloom. It's been as cold as a badgers nuts in January this summer in ole blighty.
Anyway like a fellow reefer said a couple of posts back out of two years he hasn't really enjoyed his tank much.
I echo this. In two years I've had nudi eating montipora and our favourite Dino's.
On one note anyone that actually beats the stuffing out of them has done more than every major extinction this planet has suffered. Well done. Big a$s rocks from outer space have nothing on chemical cocktails you have experimented with.
After trying the usual blackouts, chemi clean, garlic extreme, dirty tanks, clean tanks, bubbly tanks, blue lit tanks, green lit, red lit, hell even went rainbow for a night, disinfected tanks, complete drain and fresh water refill, replace of sand, live rock etc ....The absolute a$s wipes returned! Out of my clam!
At this point I carried h202 dosing, uv and ozone with daily cleans to no avail.
In the end I decided to turn the kalkwasser to 9 on the ph scale. On return home from work I found the tank brown and stunk of toxin. Excellent I thought, cleared it out and within a week they were back having a party.
Now I don't know about anyone else but I think these things become immune to stuff. For example h202 dosing, 1 ml per 10 gallon of water was working. Then just stopped. Kalkwasser at 9ph worked the once then not again. Keeping water at this level showed that the Dino's were now quite happy. How come a week before it killed them and now they are multiplying.
So two nights ago. Kalkwasser up to ph 10+ and 30ml h202 a night in a 200 litre tank.
Seems to be working.
Killed the corals though....
First post though have been a regular reader of this site for a long time.
One thing I can say is I don't think heat increases a chance of a bloom. It's been as cold as a badgers nuts in January this summer in ole blighty.
Anyway like a fellow reefer said a couple of posts back out of two years he hasn't really enjoyed his tank much.
I echo this. In two years I've had nudi eating montipora and our favourite Dino's.
On one note anyone that actually beats the stuffing out of them has done more than every major extinction this planet has suffered. Well done. Big a$s rocks from outer space have nothing on chemical cocktails you have experimented with.
After trying the usual blackouts, chemi clean, garlic extreme, dirty tanks, clean tanks, bubbly tanks, blue lit tanks, green lit, red lit, hell even went rainbow for a night, disinfected tanks, complete drain and fresh water refill, replace of sand, live rock etc ....The absolute a$s wipes returned! Out of my clam!
At this point I carried h202 dosing, uv and ozone with daily cleans to no avail.
In the end I decided to turn the kalkwasser to 9 on the ph scale. On return home from work I found the tank brown and stunk of toxin. Excellent I thought, cleared it out and within a week they were back having a party.
Now I don't know about anyone else but I think these things become immune to stuff. For example h202 dosing, 1 ml per 10 gallon of water was working. Then just stopped. Kalkwasser at 9ph worked the once then not again. Keeping water at this level showed that the Dino's were now quite happy. How come a week before it killed them and now they are multiplying.
So two nights ago. Kalkwasser up to ph 10+ and 30ml h202 a night in a 200 litre tank.
Seems to be working.
Killed the corals though....
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I'm addition have some metroplex on order so will dose that after ph and h202 nuking.
FYI Metroplex has an AVG 86% kill rate of protists. In some cases 99 others as low as 70ish. I would have at a guess this echos peoples experience.
There are a number of anti protists drugs available. A combination may hold the key.
Now I did read the DEET has a massive impact on bioluminescence Dino's. In that just the amount people were wearing was enough to wipe them out. Not sure how toxic itbwould be to everything else though.
FYI Metroplex has an AVG 86% kill rate of protists. In some cases 99 others as low as 70ish. I would have at a guess this echos peoples experience.
There are a number of anti protists drugs available. A combination may hold the key.
Now I did read the DEET has a massive impact on bioluminescence Dino's. In that just the amount people were wearing was enough to wipe them out. Not sure how toxic itbwould be to everything else though.
Oh and another thing. Dinos go cyst crazy when the water quality isn't up to scratch. Cysts head under the sand. It's interesting to note better success rates for clear tank bottoms. If no sand, nowhere to hide and will undoubtedly get syphoned, or blown in to current out to the overflow.
Of course if water quality does improve they will emerge from sand and start over.
Of course if water quality does improve they will emerge from sand and start over.
OP
OP
twilliard
Tank pests..
Bleach is what cured my tank. Corals made it and now in my DT.
Also I did bleach treatment in my DT. Lost 1 fish all other stuff survived.
No water changes
To date I have not seen a single dinoflagellate cell in my tank.
Bleach, does it work?
Yes in a strict controled method
Also I did bleach treatment in my DT. Lost 1 fish all other stuff survived.
No water changes
To date I have not seen a single dinoflagellate cell in my tank.
Bleach, does it work?
Yes in a strict controled method
paraletho
Active Member
There are a whole host of these bad boys. Some much worse than others. Most of our work at Texas Parks and Wildlife and our Harmful Algal Bloom team has been with Karenia (Red tide) and freshwater and brackish Prymnesium (Golden Algae) due to their harmful costly effects on fish and wildlife. They are efficient and have adapted modes of survival that have carried them through for eons. One of which is the encapsulating cyst stage in the sand, when you reduce the food supply. Here is a sampling https://www.whoi.edu/redtide/species/by-name
Paullawr
The proponents of ATS filter systems always claim to beat dinos although they aren't posting here whatsoever after light prodding
Seek out SantaMonica, he says ATS fix what you state to be the prob. Those ATS can be built for free too, they are algae scrubbers.
On his sales posts he doesn't state times his ATS won't fix your problem, so it's open and shut per him. I say hit him up then post back after running one, they claim 100% fix of dinos. Insert movie 300 meme leonidas gnarled battle scorned face "we'll put the name of ATS to the test"
The proponents of ATS filter systems always claim to beat dinos although they aren't posting here whatsoever after light prodding
Seek out SantaMonica, he says ATS fix what you state to be the prob. Those ATS can be built for free too, they are algae scrubbers.
On his sales posts he doesn't state times his ATS won't fix your problem, so it's open and shut per him. I say hit him up then post back after running one, they claim 100% fix of dinos. Insert movie 300 meme leonidas gnarled battle scorned face "we'll put the name of ATS to the test"
Whilst surfing the net for possible cures the following website did lighten the mood.
http://biopop.com/pages/dinocare
My favourite quotes
'
How full should I fill my Dino Pet?
Your desired fill level depends on the effects you want to see, and how you'd like your Dino Pet to look during the day. Below is a reference image for you'
Picture if you will...brown crap over everything.
Where should I place my Dino Pet?
At night leve your Dino Pet in complete darkness for at least 30 minutes before you start playing with it.
BRING ON the chemicals!!!!
'What makes this a good pet for kids?
Do you think pets are too dangerous, too messy, or too much responsibility for your little one? '
That's right folks, messy? Check.
Too much responsibility? Naah palytoxin us great for kids.
'Does this make a good present?'
Yes it does. I got mine for free off some really nice chap.
'How do I care for the pet?'
Lights, camera, chlorine.
http://biopop.com/pages/dinocare
My favourite quotes
'
How full should I fill my Dino Pet?
Your desired fill level depends on the effects you want to see, and how you'd like your Dino Pet to look during the day. Below is a reference image for you'
Picture if you will...brown crap over everything.
Where should I place my Dino Pet?
At night leve your Dino Pet in complete darkness for at least 30 minutes before you start playing with it.
BRING ON the chemicals!!!!
'What makes this a good pet for kids?
Do you think pets are too dangerous, too messy, or too much responsibility for your little one? '
That's right folks, messy? Check.
Too much responsibility? Naah palytoxin us great for kids.
'Does this make a good present?'
Yes it does. I got mine for free off some really nice chap.
'How do I care for the pet?'
Lights, camera, chlorine.
Yes I saw the advert claiming removal of Dino's. My take on it....well they would just take up residence in the algae scrubber.
Thing is my tank was running that ultra low in nutrients I had to heavily feed to prevent coral death. Not that it matters now.
Kevin Plummer
New Member
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What was your dosing and schedule for bleach? Out of curiosity.
In all fairness they have documented fixes
But
We are all dealing in 20% chances Imo and that's being left out of the statements about ATS. It is minor jerk mode for me to point it out that way acknowledged heh. Just ribbing fellow online claimants I've made many about peroxide open for ribbing too.
For every listed fix 8/10 will run it and not get the fix regarding dinos. Your type of tank and variables are the ideal test grounds for the strongest claims.
I'm biased for peroxide and oversized, not correctly sized, uv...still about 2 of 10 get fixed
Whoever gets 7/10 fixed will sell me and they need to post all that proof right here this is good read for it. With the new bleach wave and various approaches being forded this ground is where the seventy might get found due to variations in approach
It's still tbd imo
I might have to vote dinoxal as best curr retail doser for them
But
We are all dealing in 20% chances Imo and that's being left out of the statements about ATS. It is minor jerk mode for me to point it out that way acknowledged heh. Just ribbing fellow online claimants I've made many about peroxide open for ribbing too.
For every listed fix 8/10 will run it and not get the fix regarding dinos. Your type of tank and variables are the ideal test grounds for the strongest claims.
I'm biased for peroxide and oversized, not correctly sized, uv...still about 2 of 10 get fixed
Whoever gets 7/10 fixed will sell me and they need to post all that proof right here this is good read for it. With the new bleach wave and various approaches being forded this ground is where the seventy might get found due to variations in approach
It's still tbd imo
I might have to vote dinoxal as best curr retail doser for them
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Hi, It might have been me or BMW. I did dose h2o2 quite heavily for 10 days. It seemed to know them way out. On day4, they were back in droves. I saw someone mention that they were dosing twice a day 10 ml/gal in morning and at night. That might work better since it changes into water pretty quickly i'm now doing the "Cruz" method off a Facebook--I will have a pretty good idea if it worked by the end of the weekend. It is promising.
If my current method doesn't work, I may well resort to bleach. I would move my fish into a qt tank first though and treat with h2o2--don't want to kill them.
terri_ann
Well-Known Member
I love it Dan! LOL DO tank business along with other business!
I really think you are on the right track for your Dinos.As you know the cyano will suck everything into it therefore out-competing the dino's you had/a few you have left! The pods and microfauna will definitely help when you get rid of the cyano :0) As a precaution, I would suggest a few doses of bacteria (Dr. Tim's Waste Away or Microbacter7) and some more pods, if you don't have a sizeable pod population. It definitely sounds like you had a terrible "new tank syndrome" start. I think you will now enjoy it...soon! What a journey you have had and thankfully you stuck with it! I hope you are at the end of the dino journey, at least the bad dinos!! :0)
terri_ann
Well-Known Member
The days do become lost when dealing with dinos ! They all seem the same...frustrating, anger, loss of hope, etc. Your tank looks so, so much better BMW! Congrats! Your tank is lovely, I might add! Looks like you too are on your way to having a nonissue with the dinos! Congrats!!Update not sure what day I'm on or the last time I did a update. But I have not had to remove any sand in a week as there are no affected areas. I have added 2 big bottles of Dr tims bacteria, 5,000 pods, added purigen, cut light down to 6 hours a day, and stopped with red sea reef energy.
I was doing 2.5gal water changes every day when I was removing sand daily. The corals look soooo good and the pieces that were on life support are coming back! I think I'm going to hold off on adding sand for another 2-3 weeks.
terri_ann
Well-Known Member
Happy to hear that the Cruz/Facebook method is showing promise for you Gayle. As I said, it helped mine- but they came back:9( I'm happy to hear that if you have to try the bleach method that you will remove your fish:0) I've said often that I think the bleach will have a detrimental effect on the fish, especially their gills and internal organs. Slow effect but eventually they will succumb to somethig/death. No science behind my thinking but more just common sense and relating it to other caustic materials....
There is a product made by, gosh-can't think of it atm but they sell Special Blend and Nite-Out (bacterias) called Artemiss and that product says it will rid fish of bad bacterias, etc that are on the fish. I am going to use it when I transfer my fish back into the dino tank...of course the dinos won't be an issue when the fish go in:0) And as an FYI, I just finished day 4 of bleach at twice daily dosing. Haven't had any coral deaths but I did experiment on a BTA in the bleach tank...it was a small BTA(1")...It melted as I thought it would
Fish, BTA's, Elegance...those types of corals I would not have in a tank using bleach...too risky IMO. Good luck !!
terri_ann
Well-Known Member
ROTF LOL!
Condolences for the corals lost:9( You definitely seem versed on all the different methods. You've probably read where I've stated that I don't think a tank can be dino free...but the key is to get the upper hand and keep it that way, ie. a balanced tank. So find what works on the dino's you have and then out-compete them! Bacteria (Waste-Away/Bacter7, etc) and a good supply of copepods and other microfauna seem to keep the upper hand:0)
If it helps to know, non quarantine is the cause of all Dino invasions. They are obligate hitchhikers like valonia, invasive macros etc and once eradicated they cannot come back
They resist complete kill in the problem tanks we see but are not part of the majority of reef tanks, these invasive species.
The invasive species listed here are not part of the regular biota on reef substrates they are the unlucky riders, my reef has no dinos and it's not possible to have them unless we purposefully while inadvertently put them right in our tanks by our own hand.
QT in the common sense won't be as easy, I'm sure they have dormancy phases where a cell or two may not express as a colony so additional time or preventative dips may be needed, but they are still obligate hitchhikers nonetheless in the exact way that I could dose planted tank fertilizer to my reef and get a bloom of cyano and green hair algae...but never valonia or invasive macros because those haven't hitchhiker in
Cyano and various green and brown algae are non obligate HH constants in the reef that get in even if you do quarantine. Those classes are absolutely part of the requisite biota on a reef and if you QT perfectly they still get vectored in via non reef pathways (one of fifty is the garden dirt on your fingernails you forgot to wash off before reefing etc)
Anyone here that has a perfect reef, QT fish, started with ceramic rock, the perfect QT system, we could easily generate cyano and GHA just by dosing ferts to the tank and shining an old metal halide 6500K light on the setup. those groups will beat quarantine because they have aerial and physical vectors that still bring them in the tank, and amazingly our tanks send them out into the world at times as well.
Cyano and certain algae -exchange- between a tank and an environment, and all the rest are purposefully brought in by the keeper. <----- painful personal responsibility clause right there
Stopping a tank mid invasion isn't the same as finding effective QT procedures that prevent dinos as they are requisite hitchhikers strictly.
They resist complete kill in the problem tanks we see but are not part of the majority of reef tanks, these invasive species.
The invasive species listed here are not part of the regular biota on reef substrates they are the unlucky riders, my reef has no dinos and it's not possible to have them unless we purposefully while inadvertently put them right in our tanks by our own hand.
QT in the common sense won't be as easy, I'm sure they have dormancy phases where a cell or two may not express as a colony so additional time or preventative dips may be needed, but they are still obligate hitchhikers nonetheless in the exact way that I could dose planted tank fertilizer to my reef and get a bloom of cyano and green hair algae...but never valonia or invasive macros because those haven't hitchhiker in
Cyano and various green and brown algae are non obligate HH constants in the reef that get in even if you do quarantine. Those classes are absolutely part of the requisite biota on a reef and if you QT perfectly they still get vectored in via non reef pathways (one of fifty is the garden dirt on your fingernails you forgot to wash off before reefing etc)
Anyone here that has a perfect reef, QT fish, started with ceramic rock, the perfect QT system, we could easily generate cyano and GHA just by dosing ferts to the tank and shining an old metal halide 6500K light on the setup. those groups will beat quarantine because they have aerial and physical vectors that still bring them in the tank, and amazingly our tanks send them out into the world at times as well.
Cyano and certain algae -exchange- between a tank and an environment, and all the rest are purposefully brought in by the keeper. <----- painful personal responsibility clause right there
Stopping a tank mid invasion isn't the same as finding effective QT procedures that prevent dinos as they are requisite hitchhikers strictly.
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I agree. The problem many have is no room for QT tanks therefore resorting to dips which can largely be ineffective. As touched on earlier, when breaking down and re building tank despite 3 minute dips in fresh water + iodine they survived incased within the tissue of the zoas and clam.
Remember that cyst can lay dormant for years before reemerging. This indeed was what occurred with my last setup. Accidentally over adding some minor trace elements kick-started the invasion.
Whilst I believe we do have a duty to protect our interests when adding new stock. This burden should be shared with the person you are receiving them from. I received a coral only Tuesday this week smothered in Dino's from the base up.
The person selling must have known this and even if they didn't realise many are still not happy to accept.
The.montipora eating nudibranches, came from a large mail-order coral company in the UK. They denied it. Was only after inspecting the sealed bags and providing photographic evidence did they acknowledge the issue.
Still did not advise customers on their website, stop selling montiporas.
Infact the answer I received was 'i can honestly say i have never seen one in the flesh and we do check thoroughly , i have never seen any damage to any of our montipora at all.'
Odd that on two deliveries weeks apart I identified them....
Remember that cyst can lay dormant for years before reemerging. This indeed was what occurred with my last setup. Accidentally over adding some minor trace elements kick-started the invasion.
Whilst I believe we do have a duty to protect our interests when adding new stock. This burden should be shared with the person you are receiving them from. I received a coral only Tuesday this week smothered in Dino's from the base up.
The person selling must have known this and even if they didn't realise many are still not happy to accept.
The.montipora eating nudibranches, came from a large mail-order coral company in the UK. They denied it. Was only after inspecting the sealed bags and providing photographic evidence did they acknowledge the issue.
Still did not advise customers on their website, stop selling montiporas.
Infact the answer I received was 'i can honestly say i have never seen one in the flesh and we do check thoroughly , i have never seen any damage to any of our montipora at all.'
Odd that on two deliveries weeks apart I identified them....
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