Dinoflagellates - dinos a possible cure!? Follow along and see!
- Thread starter twilliard
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Welcome to the club. Yes it is.
The red, at first guess I'd say cyano. You can almost certainly identify it without fancy equipment by blowing it with a turkey baster or similar. Will float off usually in a similar piece.
The red, at first guess I'd say cyano. You can almost certainly identify it without fancy equipment by blowing it with a turkey baster or similar. Will float off usually in a similar piece.
Leyth
Well-Known Member
If I had to guess, the live rock that I bought to start this tank. I've gone through many phases though. I tried h2o2 dipping the rocks and then everything seems to get taken care of and then a week later they're back.
This time, I went on vacation and came back to the entire tank engulfed. I tried my same approach but nothing is changing this time so I thought maybe it's not even dinos. The approach I am taking now is 24 hours lights out and slowly add an hour each day. I added a bunch of pods yesterday, and I have been doing dino-x at night.
Looks very much like Dino's. I've just found evidence after three days of nuking.
They seem to become immune - see my earlier post.
Gone to 10.1 ph and now up to 50ml h202 on 200 litre tank. Found for each reappearance I have to increment the dosage.
Only way to be 100% is via microscope but having fought this lot on four separate occasions I can safely say that is a Dino bloom.
Algae x or Dino x did nothing for me other than cause some fooked up weird ultra (maybe something in the products name here) green algae to sprout up on rocks and back of snails. As for Dino's. No difference. Did lose some coral though.
And.....I tried it a seond time on another setup different batch two year later. Got same result even with ultra green algae.
If you don't have much in there.id take out rock in a bucket with fresh water and stupid amount of kalk. getbfish out in second bucket and then multiple nuke it with kalkwasser slurry hits. Get the ph has high as you can. Stir hell out the sand.
Alternatively do the bleach.
Leyth
Well-Known Member
You've got to be kidding me. I've got an unreal amount of hair algae that has started growing since I started dosing dino-x.
. I'd get it out if I were you the ammonium takes a while to clear. I lost two nems on two separate treatments. Also lost acros and montiporas. Dosed to the letter. Saw literally zero reduction in Dino's. Some tiny patches of hair algae I had that have had since day dot turned white. That was is it bar the ultra green algae that appeared around day 12.
As for what to do, read through this thread. Perhaps try with Metroplex.
As for what to do, read through this thread. Perhaps try with Metroplex.
terri_ann
Well-Known Member
@brandon429 , your comment "If it helps to know, non quarantine is the cause of all Dino invasions. " I disagree. That's a blanket statement which needs further explanation. So with that statement, you are saying to QT fish, corals, rock, sand, etc and magically no dinos ever will get in their display/reef tank? So if a fish is carrying dinos and you have it in a QT tank, that automatically means that all dinos will stay in the QT tank? I'm not being obstinate, but QT is no guarantee. QT is a very sound practice(and recommended by knowledgeable hobbyists, retailers,etc) but it can only do so much and it is no guarantee that something won't enter a tank.
Can you tell me that a dry powdered fish or coral food is free of dino's? A bottle of bacteria? Just sayin... New hobbyists may literally take your blanket statement as the complete truth and then when something happens after QT, in their tank, they can place blame on themselves. IMO, a hobbyist(s) may just give up and say it's too hard/I caused it/ etc... and I simply don't buy into that thinking. Stuff happens and how, what, when, where, and why is not "always" known....
Can you tell me that a dry powdered fish or coral food is free of dino's? A bottle of bacteria? Just sayin... New hobbyists may literally take your blanket statement as the complete truth and then when something happens after QT, in their tank, they can place blame on themselves. IMO, a hobbyist(s) may just give up and say it's too hard/I caused it/ etc... and I simply don't buy into that thinking. Stuff happens and how, what, when, where, and why is not "always" known....
BMW it's possible something else is going on, but I followed dosing to the tee with different batches. Two different nems reponded by in effect turning to mush. The negative response to treatment started very early. I also lost two heads from an otherwise healthy torch.
I had found similar reports online after seeing effects and wondered if other people had similar experiences.
True it could be toxins produced by Dino's or other factors. I just don't believe in coincidences.
The fact Leyth also indicated his nem looked bad....I'd be cautious.
I had found similar reports online after seeing effects and wondered if other people had similar experiences.
True it could be toxins produced by Dino's or other factors. I just don't believe in coincidences.
The fact Leyth also indicated his nem looked bad....I'd be cautious.
What the new hobbyist might consider is how they react after seeing that first bubble strand. With each online posted invasion following the same course of leaving them in on purpose, and then we are up to a hundred pages of challenges, maybe ineffective quarantine + wrong first moves (non action) are working hand in hand. Based on cure threads I tell any new keeper there is no invader in reefing that you purposefully leave in the tank in order to beat it. I'd have more concern of them copying the initial non actions most follow which build up large invasion threads than to concern over qt procedures we haven't perfected yet. Straight initial action is how we beat dinos and straight leaving them in is how the majority of invasions take hold
I am positive the bottle bac and fish food don't have them unless they weren't frozen or processed into a bottle as normal feed
Try to google or find an article link that shows them associated with prepared bottle bac or frozen or powdered feed
If the food item or morsel was lifted out of an infected tank and placed non qt into the affected tank then yep that's a valid vector
Agreed on fish vectoring but we covered that by saying even special modes or timing may be require to stop transmission. new qt procedures must be managed to help, clearly the current standard isn't working
My reef is immune to dinos and can't have any since they aren't imported...they cannot lay dormant for ten years then come about. The places I get frags from have no dinos and I'm not adding fish=my tank is permanently immune and that's even after I used bottle bac or feed, those are not vectors for Dinos
When you mentioned even a fish bringing them in on its side, that's specifically the point I was making, that's someone purposefully putting dinos in their tank though they didn't want to. The way I'm sure about dino transmissions is due to my own tanks immunity and the number of nanos cured of it in the nano-reef.com peroxide thread. It's easier to fix nanos of dinos because we can rip clean the whole tank all at once. These larger tanks cannot, plus they're vectoring several different ways, so we get a hundred pages of various attempts trying to streamline what works in settings where a full water change and cleaning can't be done *and repeated*
Aquarium hobbyists always see repeat actions if needed as a sign of fail so they won't do more than one or two cleaning attempts at most. We will let a community literally overtake our tanks by watching that first bubble strand grow, we consult other aquarists who say not to change water or even export them, then after full invasion we begin partial attempts to the water, then lastly right before madness someone will allow themselves to try direct export and if it doesn't work once after purposefully farming all that mass we give up saying they're too aggressive. Perhaps the order of reactions advised to people w large tanks is as much of a problem as not being able to fully access all infected substrates. Nanos are not having this widespread problem, as proof. Not one tank on nr.com failed to be fixed using our approach.
compare sites and try and figure out why nano reef .com doesn't have more than one or two Dino challenges at a time on the whole site, and why when they post they get fixed pretty quick. Small tanks are not hard to cure of dinos, so how does volume affect outcome is fair question (I claim due to ability to thorough access)
Pico reefs don't have these problems because the work of a full tank takedown cleaning is just as easy as a partial water change on a larger tank.
There are large tankers who cleaned theirs out, but cannot repeat as needed due to practicality. In some of our challenging nano fixes we rip cleaned them a few times and took care of the issue typically but installing uv after the true clean as many times as it takes (uv on a nano is more intense than a barely sized uv on a large tank)
We weren't just pulling out top layer dinos, we were replacing whole sandbeds and externally cleaning substrates in peroxide etc, no in-tank work. All out of tank. In this thread, it's all in tank work due to the tanks being too daunting to take apart four times if needed.
I am positive the bottle bac and fish food don't have them unless they weren't frozen or processed into a bottle as normal feed
Try to google or find an article link that shows them associated with prepared bottle bac or frozen or powdered feed
If the food item or morsel was lifted out of an infected tank and placed non qt into the affected tank then yep that's a valid vector
Agreed on fish vectoring but we covered that by saying even special modes or timing may be require to stop transmission. new qt procedures must be managed to help, clearly the current standard isn't working
My reef is immune to dinos and can't have any since they aren't imported...they cannot lay dormant for ten years then come about. The places I get frags from have no dinos and I'm not adding fish=my tank is permanently immune and that's even after I used bottle bac or feed, those are not vectors for Dinos
When you mentioned even a fish bringing them in on its side, that's specifically the point I was making, that's someone purposefully putting dinos in their tank though they didn't want to. The way I'm sure about dino transmissions is due to my own tanks immunity and the number of nanos cured of it in the nano-reef.com peroxide thread. It's easier to fix nanos of dinos because we can rip clean the whole tank all at once. These larger tanks cannot, plus they're vectoring several different ways, so we get a hundred pages of various attempts trying to streamline what works in settings where a full water change and cleaning can't be done *and repeated*
Aquarium hobbyists always see repeat actions if needed as a sign of fail so they won't do more than one or two cleaning attempts at most. We will let a community literally overtake our tanks by watching that first bubble strand grow, we consult other aquarists who say not to change water or even export them, then after full invasion we begin partial attempts to the water, then lastly right before madness someone will allow themselves to try direct export and if it doesn't work once after purposefully farming all that mass we give up saying they're too aggressive. Perhaps the order of reactions advised to people w large tanks is as much of a problem as not being able to fully access all infected substrates. Nanos are not having this widespread problem, as proof. Not one tank on nr.com failed to be fixed using our approach.
compare sites and try and figure out why nano reef .com doesn't have more than one or two Dino challenges at a time on the whole site, and why when they post they get fixed pretty quick. Small tanks are not hard to cure of dinos, so how does volume affect outcome is fair question (I claim due to ability to thorough access)
Pico reefs don't have these problems because the work of a full tank takedown cleaning is just as easy as a partial water change on a larger tank.
There are large tankers who cleaned theirs out, but cannot repeat as needed due to practicality. In some of our challenging nano fixes we rip cleaned them a few times and took care of the issue typically but installing uv after the true clean as many times as it takes (uv on a nano is more intense than a barely sized uv on a large tank)
We weren't just pulling out top layer dinos, we were replacing whole sandbeds and externally cleaning substrates in peroxide etc, no in-tank work. All out of tank. In this thread, it's all in tank work due to the tanks being too daunting to take apart four times if needed.
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