“Rare” torches are a con

Randy’s reef

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What you don’t seem to understand is that a lot of torches for example come in Wild and and cheaper , but the flesh band is always most likely barley holding on, you say 24k is so easy to get , please find me a true coralcruze 24k holy grail torch for sale right now , anyways corals like that 24k were in tanks for years and years the flesh is godly and some never saw anything like it because they only see “wilds” in person , have you ever seen that torch in person(cc24k holy grail)? Hands down one of the best corals in the hobby , and just because your friends or other people are “popping” heads out like crazy doesn’t mean they’re for sale , not everyone like to sell which is what you don’t seem to understand , if you don’t like the price keep buying the wild ones with very little flesh and come complain in another thread.
 
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PBnJOnWheat

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When we say “rare” are we talking about the availability of them or are we talking about the captivity of them. What I mean is that plenty of people may be selling but how many people are holding? It could be rare in one sector and not in the other.

ALSO, rare is subjective, meaning it is in comparison to something else. So if there are 5 billion gold/24k/HG torches, then you would think it’s not rare. But if there are 500 trillion purple and green torches, that 5 billion is rare in comparison to 500 trillion.
 

LordofCinder

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its just marketing tactic, Its no different than "limited edition" or "collectors edition" on any other product.

Half the peeps that buy these rare corals will grow them and frag them within a year to sell, so it makes sense the vendors need to keep coming up with the next new "rare" thing.
 
AS
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StoneyK

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Lineage means nothing when everything was collected from the same farm 2 weeks prior to selling. Lineage is just a name slapped onto it like ultra. ASD holy grail. I bet ASD ran out of their initial torches or sold the initial colony that they called holy grail years ago. They now just import holy grail torches and sell them as ASD.

Check out my torch sale thread. I imported 20 colonies of hellfire, NY knicks, holy grail and masters. To say they are different than X sellers is ridiculous. compare my hellfire with any hellfire on the market. They are identical. Now camera work is what most of you end up paying for.
Exactly… its scandelous
 

1ocean

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not bad sylvester stallone GIF by Ben L
Stallone... awesome....Rambo and Expendables...great
 
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StoneyK

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You can go online and find these corals but good luck seeing them in an LFS if you live outside CA. I was at a swap last weekend with 30+ vendors. There was 1 holy grail with no lineage. Most others were fresh imports and not hot looking. I took almost 40 frags of nice looking torches I have and sold out, but they've grown in my tank for years. Thinking there are hot euphyllia everywhere is not true.
lol you guys an your lineage…. All so you can feel cool…. lol
I buy corals because i think they are beautiful not because some dude lies to me about how its rare an has lineage… lol and by lineage you mean the seller has no idea what it actually is he bought it an named it… how is that lineage???? Again… i dont think that word means what you think it means.
If it was truely rare shouldnt it be preserved and protected ?
Not sold to the highest bidder right? Lol
Bunch of snake oil salesmen if you ask me…
 
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StoneyK

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What you don’t seem to understand is that a lot of torches for example come in Wild and and cheaper , but the flesh band is always most likely barley holding on, you say 24k is so easy to get , please find me a true coralcruze 24k holy grail torch for sale right now , anyways corals like that 24k were in tanks for years and years the flesh is godly and some never saw anything like it because they only see “wilds” in person , have you ever seen that torch in person(cc24k holy grail)? Hands down one of the best corals in the hobby , and just because your friends or other people are “popping” heads out like crazy doesn’t mean they’re for sale , not everyone like to sell which is what you don’t seem to understand , if you don’t like the price keep buying the wild ones with very little flesh and come complain in another thread

Lemmie guess you resell???
This aint about money its about ethics….
I make a VERY comfortable living . Money is not really an issue…. Common sense is.
just because i have a healthy bank account doesnt mean i feel the need to overpay because of some bs marketing and IMPLIED value….
Have you ever taken any business classes? If so then you would realize theres a difference between implied value (hype) and intrinsic value.
Gold is intrinsic… you dont have to convince anyone it worth anything it has a set verifiable value that is well documented and regulated for the most part.
Now you get a coral you keep it in your tank and mKe it happy…. What all if a sudden you want to imply value of over 10000% of what you paid? Because you have been succesful? Thats no guarantee anyone else will be or get the color or anything else. Its special for you but not necessarily for any one else. Where is your real value again????? There is none…. Its just a slimy rock to 99.9% of the world…..
 

Jubei2006

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It occured to me this morning as im scrolling thru my ig an a few other haunts…
Reseller after reseller selling their “rare” torches.
Torches that literally grow like trees have many many vendors with large grow outs an plenty of stock to keep them pumping out.
To paraphrase the princes bride movie…
Rare? You keep saying that word… Im not sure that word means what you think it means… lol.

Prove me wrong…. Explain to me how your god toches , 24k or any other torch can be called rare when tons of retailers sell them constantly out of large grow out tanks that spit them out left an right?

websters definition of “rare”

rare, scarce, and uncommon mean being in short supply. rare is usually used for an object or quality of which only a few examples are to be found and which is therefore especially appreciated. He found a rare gem. scarce is used for something that for a while is in short supply.

When there are thousands of examples and hundreds of retailers….
How is it rare?
Just like diamonds are "rare"
 
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The_Skrimp

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There’s no reason to let the big name vendors of the world play gatekeeper to the hobby by setting exorbitant prices. If someone is willing to pay it, so be it, but one of the best things us hobbyists could do for ourselves is join local reef clubs and buy, sell, and trade frags to each other. The more people do it the more these sorts of things become common and easy to find at a reasonable price. Plus it’s one of the best ways to give back to the natural reefs by creating less incentive to pull from the oceans.
 

Hydrored

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lol you guys an your lineage…. All so you can feel cool…. lol
I buy corals because i think they are beautiful not because some dude lies to me about how its rare an has lineage… lol and by lineage you mean the seller has no idea what it actually is he bought it an named it… how is that lineage???? Again… i dont think that word means what you think it means.
If it was truely rare shouldnt it be preserved and protected ?
Not sold to the highest bidder right? Lol
Bunch of snake oil salesmen if you ask me…

Lemmie guess you resell???
This aint about money its about ethics….
I make a VERY comfortable living . Money is not really an issue…. Common sense is.
just because i have a healthy bank account doesnt mean i feel the need to overpay because of some bs marketing and IMPLIED value….
Have you ever taken any business classes? If so then you would realize theres a difference between implied value (hype) and intrinsic value.
Gold is intrinsic… you dont have to convince anyone it worth anything it has a set verifiable value that is well documented and regulated for the most part.
Now you get a coral you keep it in your tank and mKe it happy…. What all if a sudden you want to imply value of over 10000% of what you paid? Because you have been succesful? Thats no guarantee anyone else will be or get the color or anything else. Its special for you but not necessarily for any one else. Where is your real value again????? There is none…. Its just a slimy rock to 99.9% of the world…..

Business classes? So you think people are unethical for buying a product low and selling high to people willing to pay a higher price for the product sold? I'm just trying to understand your viewpoint here because it seems that you keep on going the ethics route. There is nothing unethical about it, I do not disagree with all of your points but saying something is unethical is not true.

Money isn't an issue for you, great. It seems to me perceived value is your issue and you think that makes the coral seller the problem.

This topic comes and goes it seems like on a monthly basis, I'll summarize it for you: Don't like the price then don't buy it, that simple.

There’s no reason to let the big name vendors of the world play gatekeeper to the hobby by setting exorbitant prices. If someone is willing to pay it, so be it, but one of the best things us hobbyists could do for ourselves is join local reef clubs and buy, sell, and trade frags to each other. The more people do it the more these sorts of things become common and easy to find at a reasonable price. Plus it’s one of the best ways to give back to the natural reefs by creating less incentive to pull from the oceans.

Thank you!
 

rogersb

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lol you guys an your lineage…. All so you can feel cool…. lol
I buy corals because i think they are beautiful not because some dude lies to me about how its rare an has lineage… lol and by lineage you mean the seller has no idea what it actually is he bought it an named it… how is that lineage???? Again… i dont think that word means what you think it means.
If it was truely rare shouldnt it be preserved and protected ?
Not sold to the highest bidder right? Lol
Bunch of snake oil salesmen if you ask me…
Maybe you missed my other post explaining the lineage I was referring to, so I'll explain it again. I'm not buying coral for the lineage to get a higher resell, I'm trying to find coral that have a reputation for being bullet proof in our little glass boxes that will hold it's colors and thrive in my tank.

This past weekend I saw beautiful Aussie gold torches at a swap but passed on them because they do not have a good reputation for long term survival in our tanks. If I found one that someone had grown for years and was beautiful I would buy it. That is the lineage I'm referencing.
 

Dbichler

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lol you guys an your lineage…. All so you can feel cool…. lol
I buy corals because i think they are beautiful not because some dude lies to me about how its rare an has lineage… lol and by lineage you mean the seller has no idea what it actually is he bought it an named it… how is that lineage???? Again… i dont think that word means what you think it means.
If it was truely rare shouldnt it be preserved and protected ?
Not sold to the highest bidder right? Lol
Bunch of snake oil salesmen if you ask me…
Lineage wouldn’t that mean like the ocean. Or is it more specific like Indian Ocean.
 

Doctorgori

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…..not directed at anyone, but didn’t someone once say “there is a. sucker born every minute” , that’s also gotta hold true for the idiot purchasing the flavor of the week torch …. I still got some detached torch/hammer heads floating around….I’ll call em whatever you want for a mere pittance
 

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