.25 ppm ammonia with Zebra Eel

[R6REEFER]

Hey guys,

I recently acquired an almost 3 foot zebra moray eel. He was at an LFS for 2 months and upon inspecting him every visit, his health was rapidly declining. I offered the store a much lower cash price and pointed out the fact he had cloudy eye. In a bind (I didn't want the animal to die) I added the moray (his name is Corky, we will refer to him as Corky) to my newly cycled, 170 gallon system. The tank finished cycling approx. 1 week prior to addition, along with a damsel that's been in there. My parameters were great and about a week after adding Corky, I noticed I had a tad bit of ammonia. A few days prior to this, I had went and purchased the necessary fittings to create him a 1 1/2" underground tunnel system. When I noticed the ammonia I quickly syphon ed out his tunnel, ridding the tank of feces, and did a 15% water change. Corky has been gaining back his health at a phenomenal rate, I feed him fresh off the boat rock shrimp and stone crab once every other day. I also have been treating the tank with Melafix. His eyes are clearing up and he's quite a bundle of energy, fantastic charisma and personality, no odd behavior. I just tested today and I have .25 ammonia still so I'm assuming the bio filter of the tank has not adjusted to such a large bioload. Note I do not have a skimmer yet, last night I ordered the Skimz 143 DC skimmer. I know morays are quite hardy, and as I said, he's not showing any signs of odd behavior, so should I be so worried? Or should I let nature take its course while monitoring parameters closely? Randy Holmes-Farley I'm sure this is right up your alley, what do you recommend? Also note, I realize I don't have enough live rock, hence the reason I made him the tunnel system. I am ordering 120 lbs next week.

Thanks in advance for all the input,

R6REEFER

 

[melypr1985]

I think you nailed it on the head. Do more frequent water changes to keep that ammonia down as close to zero as possible. Once you add the skimmer and -more importantly i think- the live rock, it will help you keep that ammonia in check. Until then, water change water change water change. He's a beautiful eel btw.

 

[brandon429]

that's accurate.

the specific actions are to suppress ammonia current w w changes and or binding/poly pads and prime drops, and add some bottle bac the rest of the cycle w catch up. Since ammonia and organics are being pumped in constantly, you do not keep free ammonia in this type of speed cycle requirement you suppress it over and over such that it reads none and then the bac w fill in within 2-3 weeks

don't use api use salifert

 

[R6REEFER]

Thank you melypr!

I have the resources to do a water change every couple days if I want, I make my own rodi but salt is pricey lol. I see you're pretty close to my area, have you heard of ELEGANT REEF?

 

[melypr1985]

Thank you melypr!

I have the resources to do a water change every couple days if I want, I make my own rodi but salt is pricey lol. I see you're pretty close to my area, have you heard of ELEGANT REEF?

No i haven't. But i tend to not stray to far from Fish Gallery in Dallas. Where is it?

 

[R6REEFER]

Yes, I'm really not a fan of the API test kit, I almost don't trust it. I prefer salient but haven't gotten around to purchasing. The eel and skimmer as well as custom sump set me back a bit

 

[R6REEFER]

Down here in SA. I've heard of the fish gallery, sounds pretty nice. Never been to Dallas though, just Houston. Elegant reef is probably the best shop down here, I know the owner real well hence the reason I got a crazy discount on Corky (160 bucks). I was quite upset about the way they were treating him though...

 

[melypr1985]

I also wouldn't use melafix. It's herbal and wont really do anything except manage the symptoms and boost his immune system. You'll need an antibiotic, though I'm not 100% on which one to use for eels. @Humblefish would know though.

 

[R6REEFER]

I spoke with Humblefish earlier, trying to get him in on this. I haven't heard of an antibiotic for a tank, that'd be quite helpful though! The melefix is clearing it up but won't clear the last bit. I only have 2 more treatments then I can turn on my carbon reactor.

 

[Humblefish]

While eels are pretty hardy, even slight traces of ammonia may be damaging the gills. If he's exposed to ammonia for too long he will suffer liver and kidney damage, and die within a few days. If keeping him in this uncycled tank is your only option, you need to go buy a bunch of Bio-Spira, Seachem Stability or Dr Tim's Nitrifying Bacteria to seed the tank with nitrifying bacteria to get a jump start on the cycle. While continuing to do WCs to keep the ammonia at bay.

While I've never had much success with it, Melafix has enough positive anecdotal reviews to suggest it does something beneficial to help alleviate mild infections. However, you are probably going to have to dose with antibiotics to completely knock this out. Any corals/inverts in this tank?

 

[melypr1985]

Hmm. He didn't tell you an antibiotic to use? I seem to remember a thread about you picking up this eel and it being sick at the store. I just can't remember what all was suggested. There are a bunch of antibiotics, problem is, it's not good to treat in the display, and you might not have room for a QT big enough for that eel. Also, I'm used to dealing with fish that have scales. Lets see what he has to say and we can both learn from it.

HAHA! There he is as i typed this!

 

[R6REEFER]

Humblefish, the tank is cycled now, it finished about 2 weeks ago. The only other creature I have in there is a damsel. Today is the first day I'm seeing signs of diatomaceous so I'm pretty happy about that. I am quite impressed with the melafix. Last API product I used (algeafix) killed 2 tangs even with a secondary pump driving outside air into the tank. Quite frustrating -_-

 

[R6REEFER]

Lol yep he's on it. I'll do some investigating on these antibiotics. I have some penecilin I'll just toss in the reactor jk. The only place I could quarantine him would be the fuge or my 55 which is currently hosting a rose bush lol.

 

[Humblefish]

If it's cycled, I don't understand why you're seeing ammonia?

Erythromycin is the antibiotic of choice to treat eye infections, and you can safely use it on eels. If this were a mature FOWLR it would be a no brainer to use it in this situation (just turn off the skimmer/don't run carbon) because bacteria die-off from it would be minimal. But the quagmire is this is a newly cycled tank at best, so I don't know if it would also kill off enough nitrifying bacteria to "uncycle" your tank and give you more ammonia worries.

It might be better to soak erythromycin in his food, using a binder such as Seachem Focus so it doesn't leach out into the water column.

 

[R6REEFER]

The reason im seeing ammonia is because the biological filter has to catch up with the new bioload. When the tank cycled, it cycled with a set ammount of bacteria. Adding a 3 foot eel that defecates 3 times a day is almost like a shock to the bacteria. It now needs to catch up to the increased bioload. I can try soaking his shrimp in it. Im about to call up the LFS and see if they have any in stock.

 

[melypr1985]

The reason im seeing ammonia is because the biological filter has to catch up with the new bioload. When the tank cycled, it cycled with a set ammount of bacteria. Adding a 3 foot eel that defecates 3 times a day is almost like a shock to the bacteria. It now needs to catch up to the increased bioload. I can try soaking his shrimp in it. Im about to call up the LFS and see if they have any in stock.

That's what he's saying. He's afraid that if you put the erthromycin in the tank it may kill off some of that bacteria and make your ammonia issues worse for a while, which certainly wont help you. You'll need to take steps to bolster your bacteria levels quickly i think.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

As a temporary measure, something like Seachem Prime or Reed ChlorAmX to reduce the ammonia may be suitable.

 

[R6REEFER]

Oh okay, I must have misread it. I thought he was asking. @Randy Holmes-Farley thank you sir! I'm going to try to pick some up this evening

 

[Humblefish]

Just checked with someone on another forum who soaked Kanaplex and Focus in a chunk of tuna to treat a Dragon moray with a mouth infection. That worked out great for him. But I know erythromycin works better for eye infections so that would be my first choice instead of Kanaplex in this particular situation. But go with Kanaplex if that's all you can find.

Or if you can find it, Dr G's sells a anti bacterial frozen fish food that is basically the same thing. Already premixed. I believe it is kanamycin/metronidazole based.

 

[cu455]

You can cut your feedings down to twice a week to help the bio filtration catch up. Kanaplex will be fine for the eel. You can add it to food so it doesn't have a major effect on your bacteria.

It is good that the eel is looking better. You should focus more on water quality then medicating the fish. If you supply the eel with good water then the eye should clear up on it's own. It is very common for eels, groupers and other predatory fish to get cloudy eyes after feedings due to the spike in ammonia and nitrite. The cloudy eyes will go away after a while.

Cool tunnel.